Open & Closed

[Sheriff Roland]

Yesterday, as promised, the conservative government (of Canada) brought up a vote as to whether or not ta reopen the gay marriage issue. Prime Minister Harper (god, that's hard ta type) had promissed ta revisit the issue before the year ran out, and so, brought it up yesterday, in hopes a embarassing the new liberal leader, seein as the liberals (well as the conservatives) are divided on the issue.

The motion, to re-discuss (and possibly rescind(sp?)) the issue was voted down, as both the other parties (The Block, and the NDP) were unanimously pro-gay marriages and did not find it necessary to reopen the issue.

What may be more telling is that an equal number of conservatives (a dozen or so) voted against the motion as there were liberals that voted for the motion (with McKay, a highly visible cabinet minister, voting against his own party). This way, for the next election (which is expected ta be coming within the next 6 months) this will not be a hot botton issue, as it has been for the past 3 or 4 elections ... to the Conservatives' relief.

So gays will continue ta be married legally in all parts a this country for a very long time ta come - no pussyfootin around with "civil ceromonies" in this past a the world. (Even with a caretaker conservative gouvernment, it's still a durn good country ta live in.)

[Kelda]

And a yay! for scotland too!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6215838.stm
MSPs vote for same-sex adoption 
 
Legislation giving unmarried and same-sex partners the legal right to adopt has been approved at Holyrood.
MSPs overwhelmingly rejected an amendment to the new adoption bill by SNP MSP Roseanna Cunningham to prevent gay couples adopting together.

The law, which aims to reverse the decline in numbers offering to adopt, was opposed by the Catholic Church.

The Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill was approved by 101 votes to six, with six abstentions.

Under the previous law, only married couples or a single person could adopt.

Education Minister Hugh Henry said the legislation was a comprehensive overhaul of the existing adoption laws, which are almost 30 years old.

He said circumstances had changed since the current law was introduced in 1978, with more families now affected by drugs and alcohol.

Over the last 20 years the number of adoption applications has gone from about 1,000 a year to 400.

 It is about increasing the opportunities for children who are no longer able to live with their birth parents to become part of a loving and stable family

Mr Henry said ministers wanted to see more married people coming forward to adopt children.

But he added: "We also recognise that there are others who can be equally loving, equally caring and who are in stable environments who also wish to adopt whether or not they are married and we need to reflect that in our legislation."

Ms Cunningham's amendment was defeated by 98 votes to 11.

She claimed the majority of people in Scotland had concerns about allowing same-sex couples to adopt.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, head of the Catholic Church in Scotland, also voiced his disapproval of the bill.

"The natural way in which children have been brought up is the traditional way since the beginning of time - one woman, one man and a number of children," he said.

The Conservative education spokesman Lord James Douglas-Hamilton welcomed the move to allow same-sex couples to adopt jointly.

He said: "In my view to have discrimination against a whole group is not in accordance with the spirit of the 21st Century."

Green MSP Patrick Harvie, who is a gay rights campaigner, said: "I am very glad that we can make that recognition on the basis of equality for all of those adoptive parents based on the way we are passing this bill."

Labour backbencher Elaine Murray said the bill was not about anybody's right to adopt or challenging homophobia.

"It is about increasing the opportunities for children who are no longer able to live with their birth parents to become part of a loving and stable family," the Dumfries MSP said.

Adam Ingram, the SNP's deputy spokesman for children, said the bill made sure the interests of the child were paramount.

He said: "The fact that the bill extends the pool of adopters beyond married couples is to be welcomed, given that nowadays there are many alternative family arrangements which can provide security and stability in the best interests of children."

 

[Toast]

Harper declares same-sex issue closed after Commons defeats motion
Published: Thursday, December 7, 2006 | 6:15 PM ET
Canadian Press: JENNIFER DITCHBURN

OTTAWA (CP) - The last major threat to same-sex marriage rights in Canada was soundly defeated in the House of Commons on Thursday, with MPs sending the message they don't want to revisit the emotional, divisive debate.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he heard the message and will respect it. "We made a promise to have a free vote on this issue, we kept that promise, and obviously the vote was decisive and obviously we'll accept the democratic result of the people's representatives," Harper said. "I don't see reopening this question in the future."

The question put to MPs was whether they wanted to see legislation drafted to reinstate the traditional definition of marriage, while respecting the existing marriages of gays and lesbians.

That Conservative motion failed 175-123.

In the tense Commons, MPs watched each other carefully to see how the other would vote. Some Liberals cheered as prominent Tories voted to let sleeping dogs lie. Some Conservatives applauded Liberals who did the opposite.

Ultimately, more MPs supported same-sex marriage than in the last vote on the issue in June 2005.

During that charged vote last year, only three Tories voted in favour of expanding the definition of marriage. On Thursday, the number who approved the status quo was 13, including high-profile politicians such as Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay, Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon and International Development Minister Josee Verner.

Said Cannon: "The file is finished. We're turning the page."

On the Liberal side, the number of MPs committed to going back to the traditional definition of marriage dropped from 32 to 13. MP Joe Comuzzi, who lost a ministerial post the last time around for refusing to toe the cabinet line, voted against Thursday's motion.

Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe, who himself had two MPs snub party discipline Thursday by not voting at all, said he imagined the result was precisely what the Conservative government was hoping for.


"I think it's over now. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Harper is also pleased with what happened," Duceppe said.

In fact, many Tories had said privately -and publicly - over the last few months that they wanted to get past the same-sex marriage issue and have it done with before the next election.

Tory MP Bill Casey said the vote came as a relief. Casey also went from supporting traditional marriage to wanting to have the matter closed.

"If the vote had gone the other way, we would have spent the next several years with this as the main motivator here . . . so I just voted to move on," Casey said.

But some politicians were questioning whether the Conservatives had something else up their sleeve. Some reports had said the government was poised to introduce legislation to protect Canadians who did not want to perform gay marriages for religious reasons.

Justice Minister Vic Toews and Harper said that wasn't in the cards, for the time being.

"The government has no plans in that regard," Harper said. "If there were any time in the future when fundamental freedoms were threatened, of course the government would respond to protect them. The government has no plans at this time."

The House of Commons has been dealing with the issue of same-sex marriage in earnest since 2003, when the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that barring same-sex couples from marriage was unconstitutional.

Gays and lesbians began marrying in the province, and soon other jurisdictions faced similar rulings and began issuing licences.

About 12,000 gay Canadians, as well as foreign visitors, have been married in the last three years.

The previous Liberal government took the further step of consulting the Supreme Court on whether its own legislation would infringe upon freedom of religion. The court responded that the Charter would protect churches from having to officiate such marriages.

Laurie Arron of Canadians for Equal Marriage celebrated the decision.

"It's quite clear that after three votes in three years in three different parliaments that this issue is settled," Arron said. "It's quite clear there is a growing consensus among Canadians the equal marriage is here to stay."

Meanwhile, REAL Women of Canada, a socially conservative lobby group in favour of traditional marriage, said they would push for a national referendum on the issue.

"Elitist political leaders apparently believe that Canada is still in the twentieth century, where political parties ignored the opinion of the voting public," the group said in a release.

"Arrogant political leaders do not, in fact, know what's best for everyone."



A list of how MPs voted on the same-sex marriage issue Thursday

OTTAWA (CP) - A list of how MPs voted Thursday on a Conservative motion to introduce legislation to restore the traditional definition of marriage, in alphabetical order:

Yeas (123):

Abbott, Ablonczy, Albrecht, Allen, Allison, Ambrose, Anders, Anderson, Batters, Benoit, Bernier, Bezan, Blackburn, Blaney, Bonin, Boucher, Breitkreuz, Brown (Barrie), Brown (Leeds-Grenville), Bruinooge, Byrne, Calkins, Cannan (Kelowna-Lake Country), Carrie, Casson, Clement, Cullen (Etobicoke North), Cummins, Davidson, Day, Del Mastro, Devolin, Doyle, Dykstra, Epp, Fast, Finley, Fitzpatrick, Flaherty, Fletcher, Gallant, Goldring, Goodyear, Gourde, Grewal, Guergis, Hanger, Harper, Harris, Harvey, Hawn, Hearn, Hiebert, Hill, Hinton, Jaffer, Jean, Kamp (Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge-Mission), Karygiannis, Kenney (Calgary Southeast), Khan, Komarnicki, Kramp (Prince Edward-Hastings), Lake, Lauzon, Lee, Lemieux, Lukiwski, Lunn, Lunney, MacKenzie, Malhi, Mark, Mayes, McKay (Scarborough-Guildwood), McTeague, Menzies, Merrifield, Miller, Mills, Moore (Fundy Royal), Nicholson, Norlock, Obhrai, O'Connor, Oda, Pallister, Petit, Poilievre, Preston, Rajotte, Reid, Ritz, Scarpaleggia, Scheer, Schellenberger, Shipley, Skelton, Smith, Solberg, Sorenson, Stanton, Steckle, Storseth, Strahl, Sweet, Thompson (New Brunswick Southwest), Thompson (Wild Rose), Tilson, Toews, Tonks, Trost, Tweed, Van Kesteren, Van Loan, Vellacott, Wallace, Wappel, Warawa, Warkentin, Watson, Williams, Yelich.

Nays (175):

Alghabra, Andre, Angus, Asselin, Atamanenko, Bachand, Bagnell, Bains, Baird, Barbot, Beaumier, Belanger, Bell (North Vancouver), Bell (Vancouver Island North), Bellavance, Bennett, Bevilacqua, Bevington, Bigras, Black, Blaikie, Blais, Bonsant, Boshcoff, Bouchard, Bourgeois, Brison, Brown (Oakville), Brunelle, Cannon (Pontiac), Carrier, Casey, Chamberlain, Chan, Charlton, Chong, Chow, Christopherson, Coderre, Comartin, Comuzzi, Cotler, Crete, Crowder, Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley), Cuzner, D'Amours, Davies, DeBellefeuille, Demers, Deschamps, Dewar, Dhaliwal, Dhalla, Dion, Dosanjh, Dryden, Duceppe, Easter, Emerson, Eyking, Faille, Freeman, Fry, Gagnon, Gaudet, Gauthier, Godfrey, Godin, Goodale, Graham, Guarnieri, Guay, Guimond, Holland, Hubbard, Ignatieff, Jennings, Julian, Kadis, Karetak-Lindell, Keddy (South Shore-St. Margaret's), Keeper, Kotto, Laforest, Laframboise, Lalonde, Lapierre, Lavallee, Layton, LeBlanc, Lemay, Lessard, Levesque, Lussier, MacAulay, MacKay (Central Nova), Malo, Maloney, Manning, Marleau, Marston, Martin (Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca), Martin (LaSalle-Emard), Martin (Sault Ste. Marie), Martin (Winnipeg Centre), Masse, Mathyssen, Matthews, McCallum, McDonough, McGuinty, McGuire, Menard (Hochelaga), Menard (Marc-Aurele-Fortin), Merasty, Minna, Moore (Port Moody-WestwooduPort Coquitlam), Mourani, Murphy (Charlottetown), Murphy (Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe), Nadeau, Nash, Neville, Ouellet, Owen, Pacetti, Paquette, Paradis, Patry, Pearson, Perron, Peterson, Picard, Plamondon, Prentice, Priddy, Proulx, Ratansi, Redman, Regan, Richardson, Robillard, Rodriguez, Rota, Roy, Russell, Savage, Savoie, Scott, Sgro, Siksay, Silva, Simard, Simms, St. Amand, St. Denis, St-Cyr, St-Hilaire, Stoffer, Stronach, Szabo, Telegdi, Temelkovski, Thibault (West Nova), Turner, Valley, Verner, Vincent, Volpe, Wasylycia-Leis, Wilfert, Wilson, Wrzesnewskyj, Zed.

(Source: House of Commons)

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/national/061207/n120781A.html

[Toast]

Canadian Prime Minister Loses Bid to Revisit Gay Marriage Law

By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service    Friday, December 8, 2006; Page A23

TORONTO, Dec. 7 -- Canada's House of Commons rejected a move Thursday by Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper to reopen debate on a national law permitting same-sex marriages.

The House, by a vote of 175 to 123, defeated the motion brought by Harper to fulfill a campaign promise to opponents of same-sex marriage. Thirteen members of his Conservative Party voted against the motion, reflecting a desire by Parliament not to reopen the issue.
   
"Times have changed. We've moved on. The House has moved on," Bill Graham, a Liberal Party member, said Wednesday in debate on the proposal.

After a succession of court decisions in favor of gay rights, Parliament approved legislation last year allowing same-sex marriage throughout the country.

The law helped bolster a rush of marriages, many of them between gays from the United States, where same-sex marriage is legal only in Massachusetts. U.S. couples face no residency requirements to be married in Canada.

Same-sex marriage activists said Canada's law stands in stark contrast to the battle over the issue in the United States, where 27 states have passed constitutional amendments banning such marriages.

"Canada, Spain, Belgium, Holland are ahead of the U.S.," said David Buckel, a civil rights lawyer and head of the marriage program for Lambda Legal, an American gay rights organization based in New York. "Consistently, Canada sets the better example for how the democracy should work than does the United States."

During his campaign before January's national election, Harper promised to try to reverse Canada's same-sex marriage law by reopening the debate in Parliament.

Opponents in the legislature called Harper's move an empty gesture. The prime minister expended little visible effort to try to win the vote, and political commentators suggested that he simply wanted to put the issue behind him before another national election was called.

Harper, who skipped the debate on the motion Wednesday, commented before the vote Thursday that the issue was "a matter of personal conscience."

On the House floor Thursday, Liberal member Belinda Stronach said that "the prime minister and his government owe it to Canadians to state definitively today: Is this the last time" Parliament will have to vote on the issue? "We are talking about people, our friends, our neighbors, our fellow citizens, people who love each other and want to spend their lives together."

Joseph Ben-Ami, director of the Institute for Canadian Values, which opposes same-sex marriage, said, "We're not taking this vote too seriously." But he promised, "It will be an election issue when the next election happens."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/07/AR2006120701684.html

[injest]

well you have to understand the opponents of gay marriage...they MAY be right.

I mean just look at how Canada has been affected since this law has gone into effect...

crime RAMPANT in the street....public recruitment of innocent straights...abduction of straight couples for brain washing...children running away from home; marriages failing...the divorce rate has SKYROCKETED...the economy has been destroyed...the whole world looking down on them...Christian churches deserted and  being burned down...

what?

oh

so none of that happened?? Life just continued pretty much as normal??

hummmmm....