Author Topic: Would you have lasted 20 years?  (Read 14046 times)

Offline mg501

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Would you have lasted 20 years?
« on: April 12, 2006, 12:05:20 pm »
Every time I watch BBM the one question in the back of my mind is whether I would have hung in for 20 years like Jack did. I'm not saying that Ennis was doing anything wrong. I completely understand what he was struggling with. The scene where he is dry heaving and punching the wall says it all.
I just keep thinking, though, how many times Jack put himself out there for Ennis and how many times Ennis pulled away or just didn't reciprocate. Jack said to Ennis, "Tell ya what, the truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." All Ennis did was look down. He said nothing in response. He didn't even lean over and hug Jack. At their reunion at Ennis' apartment the audience can clearly see the intensity of their passion. It must have been enough for Jack to hold on to hope all those years.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 07:07:47 pm by mg501 »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2006, 12:35:41 pm »
I could have.  Had I not met my husband when I did after "the one that got away" and I broke up and had I just settled for someone I didn't love for money, I absolutely could have and would have.  Thing is, I love my husband, and so after three years of a similar struggle (but on a lesser level, of course, since we're both straight and didn't have the social bullshit keeping us apart - just his need to prove to himself there wasn't a better offer pending somewhere) I was able to give up the ghost.  But not without a lot of heartache.  I'm still not over him completely, nearly 20 years later, and I'd be able to pick his voice out of a crowd in a heartbeat if he was ever within earshot again even though I've neither seen nor spoken to him in about 15 years.
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Offline RouxB

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2006, 01:58:27 pm »
Oh, I hung in for 23 years. Lived my life at the same time but none the less waited for my Ennis for that long. I finally let it go but now with the movie always on my mind, and an emotional voice mail message from him that someone erased before I heard it, I find myself calling again. Oh no! Luckily he never picks up his phone and I never leave a message  ::)

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moremojo

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2006, 04:07:46 pm »
I think I could have hung on if I had been in love as much as Jack obviously was. This kind of soul-searing, life-changing love doesn't come around too often in the course of our time here on earth, and is extremely precious when found. It might be necessary to let go at some point, for some reason, but that decision would not be one to be taken lightly.

In fact, I don't know that I'll ever be able to let Ennis and Jack go. I have fallen hard for these two beautiful characters, and I may be looking at a lifetime colored by my complex feelings regarding them. Amazing, isn't it, that a story and film can do that to a person?

Scott
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 06:14:47 pm by moremojo »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2006, 04:26:55 pm »
In fact, I don't know that I'll ever be able to let Ennis and Jack go. I have fallen hard for these two beautiful characters, and I may be looking at a lifetime colored by my complex feelings regarding them. Amazing, isn't it, that a story and film can do that to a person?

I'm with you, Scott.  I'm fairly certain I'll never get over these two.  Only difference is that in their case, I don't want to.
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Offline mg501

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2006, 06:51:19 pm »
"In fact, I don't know that I'll ever be able to let Ennis and Jack go."

I have to add my "ditto" on that. I have never felt as attached to two characters from a movie as I do with Jack and Ennis.

Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2006, 09:41:00 pm »
Sorry for the redundancy but I'm right there with you guys. It's frightening how much I care about Jack and Ennis; I care about them as if they're my blood-kin. I never want to get over them either; that's one of the scarier parts...


Jack and Ennis forever...
If you'd just realize what I just realized then we'd be perfect for each other and we'd never have to wonder if we missed out on each other now
We missed out on each other now


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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2006, 10:31:11 pm »
I'm on board with all you people.  These guys have been on my mind for almost 4 months now and it seemed to breathe new life into me.
I know they're fictional, but somewhere out in real life there are real Jacks and Ennis' and I think that's the part I don't want to let go of.
In America sex is an obsession.  In other parts of the world it is a fact.

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Offline Kea

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2006, 11:45:47 pm »
I feel about them the same way.....they are too real for me.....and I wont let them go and thankfully they dont seem to want to leave either...

I would have lasted the twenty years.....when I love someone...my staying power if remarkable....but it would have wounded me waiting around all these years....

but you cant walk away from your heart.....can you??

how do you live after that?

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Kea
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Without you I find myself
Wanting to be lost again."
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Offline RouxB

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2006, 11:55:14 pm »
Yeah, this is some crazy love! Ennis and Jack are so real-it used to freak me out a bit but they were real for Annie Proulx-and she created them! It took months for her quit them and, I suspect at some point, I'll be able to quit them too but until then I am gonna just wallow in my love.

I've taken to writing fan fic-bringing Jack back to life and then being mad at myself cuz he's not supposed to be alive-it's just ridiculous when you think about it!

 O0

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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 12:00:14 am »
Wow, I would love to read what you wrote.  Do you mind?  Do I just go over there?
In America sex is an obsession.  In other parts of the world it is a fact.

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Offline twistedude

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2006, 12:47:56 am »
There are guys I would take back after 48 years--except he's in Denmark. But then, I didn't have to LIVE with him all that time! (Neither did Jack and Ennis, for that matter, but I think they were well-suited, if Jack could have kneaded Ennis ariound to taking that step...)

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Offline OddlyEven

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2006, 05:24:43 pm »
Would I have lasted 20 years in that kind of relationship? Wow...cheers for the original question. It's really made me stop and think and I have to say, no I don't think I could have lasted that long. If I put myself in Jack's shoes, as in the moment he drives to Wyoming right after he learns of Ennis' divorce and he gets rejected. I think that would have been the last straw for me. I couldn't have went on any longer.
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2006, 05:34:25 pm »
Would I have lasted 20 years in that kind of relationship? Wow...cheers for the original question. It's really made me stop and think and I have to say, no I don't think I could have lasted that long. If I put myself in Jack's shoes, as in the moment he drives to Wyoming right after he learns of Ennis' divorce and he gets rejected. I think that would have been the last straw for me. I couldn't have went on any longer.



I was just thinking that before I read your post.  After that rejection, that would have been it for me.  That scene was about, what, 1975?  12 years is long enough.
In America sex is an obsession.  In other parts of the world it is a fact.

Marlene Dietrich

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 10:40:02 am »
Would I have lasted 20 years in that kind of relationship? Wow...cheers for the original question. It's really made me stop and think and I have to say, no I don't think I could have lasted that long. If I put myself in Jack's shoes, as in the moment he drives to Wyoming right after he learns of Ennis' divorce and he gets rejected. I think that would have been the last straw for me. I couldn't have went on any longer.

I was just thinking that before I read your post.  After that rejection, that would have been it for me.  That scene was about, what, 1975?  12 years is long enough.

Hmmmmm...  Easier said than done.  As I've said, I never really did get over that first love of my life to the point that I didn't long for him anyore until he was seriously with someone else (and yes, that was after I'd been seriously involved with someone else for two years after we broke up).  If Ennis had taken up with another guy (of course, that's impossible considering all the aspects of his character, but just humor me, here) and gotten serious with him, Jack could and would have walked away.  But Ennis didn't do that.  So Jack always knew he was the only one for him.  That's some powerfully motivating force when you're deeply in love and don't want to let go to begin with.
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Offline mg501

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2006, 12:02:10 pm »
ednbarby...

That is an interesting point. Ennis didn't get involved with any other guys and he didn't re-marry. Jack wanted to believe they would get together and Ennis' lack of involvement with anyone could have fueled Jack's belief that eventually they would.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2006, 02:50:08 pm »
Exactly, mg.  For what it's worth, I know that this is absolutely what it took for me to be able to really move on from him.  Had he remained single/unattached for any length of time all these years, I'm fairly certain I'd never have stopped pining for him.  Ego is a funny thing.  It will make us hold on to a dream when all signs point to its never being a reality if we can make believe the object of our affection hasn't had any better offers.  When that delusion is finally proven false by their being capable of loving someone else, it hurts like a son of a bitch, but the spell is broken.

Now, look at Jack.  Even more motivating for him is the fairly certain knowledge that Ennis has never been with any other man.  And that he doesn't even have any close platonic male friends who could potentially become objects of affection.  The one thing he thinks is keeping them from being together - his commitment to his wife - is over, so naturally he thinks, especially in that Ennis went out of his way to share that information with him (that he of course misread), that they are finally free to build a life around each other.  He neglects to examine the idea that maybe what Ennis was shown as a child had such a profound impact on him as to make that impossible.  Just as I, on a much lesser level, neglected to examine the idea that the man with whom I was so in love only found me really interesting when he could no longer have me.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2006, 09:42:31 am »
Add me to all of you above who are in love with Ennis and Jack. But I sure hope I'm not still pining this much for them 20 years from now, or I'll definitely be nothin and nowhere.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2006, 06:49:10 am »
Hmmm, I must say that this topic has called me back.  I read it a while back but didn't think I had anything useful to say.  But after a couple of weeks on an emotional roller-coaster, today I realised that my opinion on this has changed.

Here's the two weeks ago view: I wouldn't have lasted past the post-divorce rejection.

There is no way I could sustain a relationship where I was kept on a leash, short or otherwise.  It would be unbearable to rise to the height of ecstasy for a few days only to have that passion taken away again, over and over again.  I would become embittered and withdrawn.  In a way I speak from experience.  The first person I came out to was my (straight) house mate and friend who for reasons only immaturity can tell, I just could not quit him.  Stubbornly this went on for 4 years, some 10 years ago, and each and every day that went by I became less, like chipping away at a block of stone, childishly hoping to reveal a work of art, but ending up with a pile of rubble.  I vowed never to fall for someone unwilling or unable to return the feeling ever again.

But...

Here's today's view: Indeed, reciprocated love is hard to find, but hardly anyone finds a love like J&E's - there's no way I would quit.

The fundamental difference between my situation and Jack and Ennis, is that I was not in a reciprocated loving relationship while they were.  Even if it were only a few days a year, and no doubt I would be as frustrated as Jack, but I would/could never let it go.  Anyway, what's the alternative?  Do you quit Ennis, return to your wife and make her life miserable?  Do you spend all of your time driving to Mexico for one-night-stands?  I know we're given Randall in the film as an "alternate love interest" (let's not bring him into this), but there's one thing for sure: lovers are easy to find, but true love is much much more difficult to find, if at all.

This has been a difficult healing process for me.  Revisiting these feelings is not something that I wanted to do.  But in a "ready or not" sort of way, Brokeback Mountain made sure I did.  I can't say that I'm completely confident in this conclusion, and maybe I'd change my mind if I were in Jack's shoes and 20 years has passed, but I can't get it out of my head that a love like that is worth any sacrifice.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2006, 11:00:11 am »
I'm with you, Chris. It would have been torture, but I don't think I'd have been able to tear myself away. It was too perfect a love. It was fully reciprocated, just not sufficiently honored. Ennis and Jack had everything -- admiration, respect, affection, longing, intense physical attraction, etc. Everything except time.

Thinking about it that way, and reminding myself that many people go through life without ever finding that kind of love at all, is about the only thing that helps console me when I start to dwell on their tragedy.

Offline Rayn

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2006, 11:59:56 am »
Love is a Force of Nature! 

     The depth of those words may be lost because of simplicity of the statement.  I believe that true love, the unconditional kind, when you surrender to it, when it takes hold of your entire being, isn't a choice as much as some people imagine.  The choice is in the surrender to it, but then we embody it and it becomes a part of us, it becomes flesh, blood, memory, emotions, mind.

   My experience of this love is that it isn't momentary; it isn't over in a few months or years, it last forever and if you know it, you know "a foretaste of heaven"... if there are such places in some afterlife. 

     Is that something a person can walk away from, not usually.  Is it something a person will do almost anything to keep?  Yes.  Jack and Ennis both knew it.

     Life is never just joy and pleasure; there's always some measure of suffering and discomfort one has to bear without a doubt and real love is one of the great mysteries of comfort, strength, power and pleasure that makes it worth the pain. 

     I identify with Jack strongly because I have been fortunate enough to have known real love in this life and I know what he was feeling.  It can happen to you at any time in life and, I say again, we don't have as much control or power over "it" as it has over us. 

     Twenty years for a taste of eternity every month or so?  Yeah, it's worth hanging out for that.  Had Jack not met with the untimely end that he did, he would have met Ennis in November.   I have little doubt of that... nor did Jack.

May the "force" be with you... opps isn't that from "another movie"...
Well, it works here too, huh?

Love,
Rayn
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 11:16:41 am by Rayn »

Offline ProwlAmongUs

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2006, 10:59:52 pm »
I've lasted eleven years so far, but I see my Ennis almost every weekend. I have to confess that I get lonely during the week many times and need the affection I only get periodically. It's not an easy life, but good guys who will stick by you through trouble are difficult to find. Most are of the opinion that if you have baggage, leave it behind, or they don't want you. Well, no one is perfect and we all have SOME baggage. Many gay males are looking for a fantasy man who will never exist. Sometimes you have to accept a situation for what it is and go with it. Who we fall in love with is not always rationally determined; in fact, it seldom makes any sense. As my partner is fond of saying, "Who else would put up with either of us but us?"  He's pretty much on target...
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2006, 10:52:35 pm »
Ennis and Jack have become as much a part of me as my own flesh and blood. I will never be over them, and I will never quit them.

That said, if I had been Jack, or in Jack's position with someone else, there would have come a profound change after Ennis's divorce. Would I have cut Ennis out of my life competely? Probably not, because I'm mindful that just as Jack was Ennis's best friend, Ennis was also Jack's best friend.

I write this as someone who never completely or entirely stops loving someone I have been in love with. But for me the passion does die down. Had I been Jack, the passion would have begun to die when I realized, in the wake of Ennis's divorce, that he was never going to change, even now that he no longer had the excuse of his marriage.

I may well have continued to get together with my best bud once or twice a year--though maybe skipping a year now and then--continuing to make the drive to Wyoming because I would have continued to combine those trips with visits to the folks in Lightning Flat.

And maybe we would have even remained "friends with privileges (horrible phrase!). But the passion would have died, and the confrontation at the lake would have never taken place. I would have been justifiably annoyed at Ennis for waiting a whole week without saying one little word about August, but by then I wouldn't have had enough passion any more to get really angry at Ennis. There would have been no analogies to trying to see the pope, no "goddamn bitch of an unacceptable situation." For me, by that point, it would have come down to, "I'm really sorry to hear that, Ennis. Well, guess I'll see you in November." Or, if I didn't want to get together in the friggin' cold, "See you next spring some time."

So my passion wouldn't have lasted that long, but I probably would not have cut Ennis out of my life.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline DecaturTxCowboy

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2006, 06:48:38 pm »
My next t-shirt is gonna be....

Take it like a man - steady and strong, not a lot of fuss and carring on.  True to a promise, I can ride in any storm.  So bend over and take it like a man...Too much of a good thing is a good thing.

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2006, 08:54:23 pm »
If I were going by what Annie Proulx wrote in her short story and what Ennis Del Mar said to Jack Twist in the Motel Siesta in Riverton, Wyoming in June 1967, and I were in an identical situation with a guy like Ennis Del Mar, that night in the motel room would have been my last time with such a guy.

Some of Ennis's Motel Siesta dialog was scattered thoughout the rest of the movie.

Even Ennis implied on the night of June 24, 1967 that he was not even in love with Alma Beers. He just felt that he was stuck being married to her and there was no way that he could leave her. He did say to Jack that night, "Alma? It's not her fault." What was not her fault?

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2006, 06:53:05 pm »
Ennis and Jack had everything -- admiration, respect, affection, longing, intense physical attraction, etc. Everything except time.

Beautifully expressed. The men's mutual respect is an element that is rather under-discussed, but nonetheless very important. I sense it most keenly when we see the two riding horses together, in the sequence immediately following Ennis's Thanksgiving debacle. Many have commented on the quiet sadness of this scene, but the deep, lasting respect is definitely there as well.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2006, 01:07:13 am »
Every time I watch BBM the one question in the back of my mind is whether I would have hung in for 20 years like Jack did. I'm not saying that Ennis was doing anything wrong. I completely understand what he was struggling with. The scene where he is dry heaving and punching the wall says it all.
I just keep thinking, though, how many times Jack put himself out there for Ennis and how many times Ennis pulled away or just didn't reciprocate. Jack said to Ennis, "Tell ya what, the truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." All Ennis did was look down. He said nothing in response. He didn't even lean over and hug Jack. At their reunion at Ennis' apartment the audience can clearly see the intensity of their passion. It must have been enough for Jack to hold on to hope all those years.
Even though we did not see Ennis's response, you know there was one and how he felt from the very next scene, asleep with his arms around Jack.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline welliwont

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2006, 11:44:22 am »
Even though we did not see Ennis's response, you know there was one and how he felt from the very next scene, asleep with his arms around Jack.

Well let me respectfully disagree.  I most certainly do not know that there was one (a response from Ennis after Jack says, "... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it").  If there was a response by Ennis, we would have heard it, IMO.  What kind of a filmmaker leaves out half of the character-defining dialogue in the most emotion-driven scenes of a movie?

I did not hear a response, and I sure would have like to have heard one!  As far as having his arm around Jack when they were sleeping, I do not equate that with a response to Jack's heartfelt admission.  Of course they slept together holding each other, they loved each other, it was their last night of that trip together....

The fact that Ennis does not respond to Jack's sorrow really lowers my opinion of him...

Jane

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Offline kminmn

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2006, 06:47:11 pm »
I wouldn't have made it for 20 years.  I did have a relationship kind of like this once and it ripped me apart.  We were together for a little over a year and he said it wasn't working (it was a religion thing), but we loved each other and wanted to try to remain friends.  This was my first true love and I guess a part of me refused to believe that this could keep us apart, that he would change his mind.  So, we kept hanging out and trying to be "just friends".  Let's  just say the being "just friends" thing only worked about half the time.  However, I came to realize that it was always on his terms and when he needed it.  After four years I decided that I couldn't take it anymore.  He wasn't going to change and I needed him to.  I also knew that I needed to find someone who would give me what I needed and that wasn't going to happen with him around.  So, as much as it hurt, I walked away.  It took moving away but that is what I did.  We kept in touch for awhile through phone calls and letters because it was just too hard to completely have him be gone, but eventually we quit even that communication.

I have to say that I am one of the people who believe that Jack decided to "quit" Ennis after their last trip.  He would have loved Ennis to the end of time, but I think he was going to let him go.  Part of me always wondered how he lasted as long as he did, especially after the divorce.  How do you go on with that kind of pain, no matte how much you love someone?

It's been almost 14 years since I walked away from my first love and I can honestly say that not a day has gone by that haven't thought about him.  I also know that I did the right thing.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2006, 10:49:14 pm »
Well let me respectfully disagree.  I most certainly do not know that there was one (a response from Ennis after Jack says, "... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it").  If there was a response by Ennis, we would have heard it, IMO.  What kind of a filmmaker leaves out half of the character-defining dialogue in the most emotion-driven scenes of a movie?

I did not hear a response, and I sure would have like to have heard one!  As far as having his arm around Jack when they were sleeping, I do not equate that with a response to Jack's heartfelt admission.  Of course they slept together holding each other, they loved each other, it was their last night of that trip together....

The fact that Ennis does not respond to Jack's sorrow really lowers my opinion of him...

Jane




I think perhaps that fireside "sometimes I miss you so much happened earier on that last trip and his silence is that he knows he has to tell Jack he can't make August, so he puts it off as long as possable. I do thinkl the film showing Ennis's arm around Jack that nite is important and part of hes reaction to Jack's statement. I don't think Jack was looking for a verbal response.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline 2robots4u

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2006, 04:54:21 pm »
This has been a great thread, and I'm glad that I could share your personal lives.  But it's been a while since anyone posted, so let me tell mine, and hopefully we can revive this thread.

Twenty years is a long time, even for the most happiest of partners.  I was on the way to accomplishing the Jack-Ennis thing, but sadly....

I met Tom in a public place in 1972 and invited him to my house.  An intense relationship developed almost immediately, and we saw each other 3-4 night a week for about 2 months.  He was an Air Force Reservist, and prone to often and long trips away from home.  We never committed to each other exclusively, so I could not feel hurt when he came back to town and told of other men he had met; of course, I was doing the same, but I still loved Tom and he said he loved me.  In 1976 he was reassigned to San Antonio, TX; Houston was close enought, so I requested a transfer with my company.  That was a disaster...every time I called to arrange a weekend, he was gone, and when he called me, I was not available.  But in a 3-year period we did manage 4 or 5 visits.  In 1979 he moved to Washington, D.C. and withing 3 months called and asked me to come visit as he would be going to Spain for an indefinite period.  I did, and lived in his house for several months (I got a job so I wasn't sponging).  When he came back, I had already moved to my own apartment, and we saw each other often, when to dinner, dancing at the bars, social gatherings with his friends (mine were never good enough for him).  Finally in 1983 he disappeared.  I knew he had to fly to Spain on an air-evacuation job, but I never heard from him again.  When I called his parents they acted like they didn't know me (I knew they hated me) and would not give any info.  Several weeks later I ran into a very close friend of Tom and he told me there had been a plane crash with no survivors.  I mourned his death as a friend would, not as a lover, moved back to California and went on with my life.  I remember him on certain occasiones, or when my mind wanders back to other times, but never with profound sadness because he was a friend of mine, and I believe he would have wanted it no other way.

As for an answer to the original question...I don't think I could have gone on with it very much longer.  It was a frustrating situation, demanding of time and energy, and in the end, not the satisfaction I would have wanted.  Had he lived, things might have been different, but that's something I could not have know.

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2006, 05:26:53 pm »
Thanks for sharing your story, 2robots4u. I am sorry about the tragic loss of your friend, and even though you mourn him as a friend more than as a lover, friendships are still valuable relationships. You state that you "believe he would have wanted it no other way"--that makes me think of the line in Annie's story, following Ennis's "Jack, I swear", in which we are told that "Jack never asked him to swear anything, and was not himself the swearing kind" (paraphrasing from memory); this suggests that maybe Jack would not have wished Ennis to mourn profoundly over him, though that is what Ennis ended up doing.

I have a situation with a friend (with whom I shared occasional physical intimacy, though we were never committed lovers), who moved away, had a falling out, and then patched up the friendship, only to find one day that his phone number was disconnected. My friend is bipolar, and had often hinted that he was at high risk for suicide. He is a very special person in my life, but it is also very challenging to relate to him, and sometimes more work than fun. I have considered doing a little detective work of my own to see if I could track him down or find something about him, but I'm afraid of perhaps hearing that he is no longer on this earth. Can I handle hearing that? We lost touch long before Brokeback Mountain came out, and I wonder how he might respond/have responded to this film and story so dear to my heart. There's a little gap in my life-story that his disappearance has caused, and I know it can only be filled by finding out his whereabouts or latest history. But I wait, not sure of my own strength...

Scott
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 08:39:55 pm by moremojo »

Offline Momof2

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2006, 05:39:12 pm »
I was in love with a guy in High School.  My best friend actually liked him but he was not interested.  He wanted to date me.  After much soul searching I agreed.  He was amazing.  Loving, attentive, all of most wonderful qualities.  We had an unbelievable physical attraction also.  We dated on and off for a few years.  Even when we were "with" other people we would meet up.  It was always wonderful.  We graduated and I went off to college.  I did not see him much but man, every time I did that love would just overpower me.  Then out of the blew one day, I saw him at a hospital near where we grew up.  His father was there and was dying of cancer.  I was there with my father-in-law.  This was 11 years after we had graduated.  Man, that connection was still there.  If I were not married I would have tried to rekindle that love.  I could tell it was still there for him.  The wierd thing is that he knows my husband.  My husband knows about our connection and it has never botherd him.  

His daddy died and I went to the funeral.  Not a smart thing to do.  I was already extremely emotional and so was he.  We talked for a long time remembering the good times we had.  He told me that he had loved me unbelievably then and that he thought about me all of the time.  I told him pretty much the same thing.  He said he wished we would have made it work then.  We both realized that we did still love each other but nothing would ever come of it because I was married and love my husband beyond words.

He married a year or so later.  We see them every now and then.  That connection is still there.  He told me he had told her about me and she knew about our love.  When he first saw my little girl, his eyes filled with tears.  My husband just looked at both of us.  It was a little awkward.  When I saw his little girl for the first time, the same reaction.  I could see him in her.  He invited us to eat and him and my husband made plans to get together.  He sees my sister alot and always ask about me and I do the same.  I think it is possible to hold on to something for that long.  My situation is different than J&E but I know that a love can last that long.  The passion is not acted upon of course, but the longing to be with that person is still the same.  I guess that really sounds bad.  Now I am sad.  It is wierd, because I do dream about him alot.  It is not the person he is now, but the person he was when we were 16 and 17.  I guess because that is when our love and passion were so new and strong.  

I wish I knew how to quit you.

Offline Lumière

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2006, 05:51:39 pm »
Wow, quite some intense stories here guys!

Would I have lasted 20 years?  I don't think so.  I tend to love too intensely.  It tends to consume me heavily and I don't think I could last 20 years in that situation.  I am at a point in my life now, where I am learning to love with detachment (if that makes any sense..)  :), learning to love and carry on at the same time .. well, I am working on it.  :)

Great thread!


Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2006, 02:31:41 pm »
I suppose part of the answer to this question has to relate to the time, the culture, and one's personal strength.

I can say a lot has changed in this society just since the 1980s when it comes to sexuality issues.  I can't even imagine what it was like in the 1960s and early 1970s.  Plop yourself in the mountain states (where George Bush still has an approval rating greater than 50%) or rural Texas, and living the life of an emotionally open Oprah or wandering up and down a Christopher Street is just not a possibility.

We can feel the "ignorance" of Jack and Ennis throughout the entire film.  Jack doesn't completely understand himself either, but his idea of happiness is what works for him and the rest of the world be damned.  But even he is not going to slap a pink triangle on the back of his truck, that's for certain.

This makes their situation especially hard to translate into 2006 society.  We have many more options available to us today, and there has been a definite trend in society to tell people they do not have to live as "victims" of unhappy circumstances any longer.  So I think most people would have told Ennis to drop dead at least by the time of the post-divorce encounter.  Hell, that's a Made for Lifetime movie waiting to be made - right down to that B list actress  telling the man "we're through!" followed by audiences cheering "you go girl!"

On a practical level, life is short and I would never recommend anyone sit around and wait forever for someone too haunted by circumstance, their own personal demons, or just plain selfishness, to come around.  The very fact one cannot have that person often makes those desires even stronger.  I have, in my own life, told people who just could not meet by minimum requirements for commitment "goodbye."  I will always have the prior memories and good experiences there, but I also knew that there was no way I was going to settle for someone that couldn't even handle the basics.  In my case, navigating through bad experiences helped me learn enough in finding a better experience, and I've been in a relationship that will celebrate 20 years in January.

One big lesson this film did seem to send to those Ennis types out there is that one can't afford to keep missing opportunities.  The time for change is now, and doing nothing can put you on the same path as the characters, leading to a lifetime spent largely apart.  Taking a chance and moving beyond your fears can lead to success.
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Offline Rayn

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2006, 05:10:33 am »
Yes, I would have.

Offline Momof2

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2006, 12:21:31 pm »
I now know I would have lasted that long.  I had a dream about them last night.  First time I have ever had a dream about them.  I think about them constantly but never dreams.  It seemed so real.  When I woke up I wanted to go back to sleep to be with them again. 

I used to dream about my sister that died alot.  Not so much anymore.  When I do, it is like she is still alive. Even after I wake up, I have to remind myself that she is gone.  Thank God for dreams.   

Their love was so unusual and strong and I think anyone that expreriences just a taste of it would hold on. 
I wish I knew how to quit you.

Offline Noviani

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2006, 10:58:14 pm »
I would have lasted 20 years, if i felt that he was the love of my life.

off course with endless effort to get the person stay with me permanently like jack did, but i guess more often.
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Offline Kd5000

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2006, 12:17:33 pm »
No.  I think that person would always occupy a warm and fuzzy place in my heart, but eventually it would just become too unbearable. A few weeks a year wouldn't cut it after 5 years at the most.   I'm not the needy type, but I'd like the person to be there to share the triumphs and tragedies of our lives.

If the question was, do you think it's plausible that Jack and Ennis would still be getting together and have strong feelings for each other over a 20 year time period, I would say most definately.  They were in a unique situation, had forged a relationship as teenagers (well 19 is still a teenager), Jack dreamed that eventually Ennis would give in and Ennis loved Jack to much to ever verbalized "Jack I can't give you what you want, a life together, maybe you should  ..."


Offline Arad-3

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2007, 02:48:28 am »
I believe that it would of been too unbearable for me to last twenty years waiting and waiting .  When I'm in love I need to see them all the time. Time and things around me are out of whack if they are not part of it.   I once had an affair with a married man.  Years back.  It almost killed me when he went home to his wife. The thoughts of him sleeping with her at night kept me up all night long.    The only time I could sleep was when I knew he was out of that bed and out of that house at work.    I know that's pretty sick.  I have paid royally for that mistake believe me.  I still pray 15 years later that God will forgive me for being so selfish.

Bottom line is this. I have grown allot since then.  And I would never go through that again for a million dollars. I still feel a pang in my heart when I hear his name. But life is so short and way too precious to live so many days so unhappy and tortured. You can't buy that time back.   If they are not available at the time you meet them. chances are they wont be at the time you need  them either. So my new motto now is..."either shit or get off the pot!"

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2007, 11:00:59 am »
Geri, thanks for sharing your story. The bright side of it is that it sounds like you learned from that experience to do things differently from then on. The saddest mistakes are the ones we keep making, but it's not always easy to see them while they're going on. One of the hardest lessons to learn, IMO, is that if you're in love with someone and you're not getting what you need from them ... well, then you're not getting what you need from them! And any relationship that makes you more sad than happy isn't worth it. If you can live by that, lucky you.  :)


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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2007, 11:12:18 am »
Here's my $.02 --

IMO it's easy for that kind of disillusionment to creep up on you - on Jack specifically in BBM.  After all, he and Ennis are still only 23 or 24 when the reunion takes place and they decide to start meeting for "fishing trips."  And when you're in your early 20s, the notion of meeting your lover for romantic trysts in scenic wilderness areas packs quite a lot of romantic appeal. That seems to change right after the divorce/truck scene, and arguably Jack should have given Ennis an ultimatum at that point. There are fanfics where he does and that's a turning point, and IMO the writers are using some good instincts there.

But again, it's so easy and seductive to keep thinking "one more year, one more meeting and maybe things will change." That happens in hetero extra-marital affairs where one partner (usually the woman, though not always) likes the aspect of intrigue at first and then later keeps telling (her)self that the other person is going to divorce their spouse and leave them free to marry; "just six more months" and than "just another year." 

That even happens in marriages, where the participants should have called it quits years ago but keep holding out thinking that their memory of how good it was at the beginning will become a present reality, just give it a little more time. To be honest, I'm not sure if I could have lasted 20 years but it's possible. Whether it would be worth it, that's another question.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2007, 11:26:22 am »
That even happens in marriages, where the participants should have called it quits years ago but keep holding out thinking that their memory of how good it was at the beginning will become a present reality, just give it a little more time.

Well put. In other relationships as well as marriages -- if it has been good in the past, it's tempting to think it can be that way again, even if clearly things have soured, probably permanently. (With Jack and Ennis, I think it is less a matter of souring than of staying on permanent status quo.)

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2007, 12:46:57 pm »
I think we have to take into the equation their time and place (like in most other regards of this movie). It's crucial.

What would have been the alternative for them? It's easy (well, at least easier) to quit an unfullfilling/unhappy relationship when you have at least theoretical alternatives. And even then it's hard, see Arad's story.

But for Ennis and Jack? What else could have been for them, if not each other? For Ennis, I'm sure there never could have been any alternative to Jack. The alternative for Ennis was what he was left with at the end of the movie: nothing but being all alone and desperate.

And for Jack?
Randall? What do we know about him? Next to nothing. Had he been willing to share a life with Jack? We don't have any clues, except that Jack spoke about a neighbour fella to his father. But cruel as his father was, he was not completely wrong: Jack had spoken of bringing Ennis to LF for years and years - but nothing happened. Mexican prostitutes? Not halfways an alternative to what he shared with Ennis. Hoping to meet someone else? Well, how secure was Jack in his sexuality, what inhibitions and shortcomings did he have? We tend to concentrate on Ennis's shortcomings, demons, fears. But Jack had also his issues.

Then think of the mere chance to meet other gay men in their time and place. I don't think LF or Childress had a gay bar at that time. Maybe go to Denver, like he supposed in the story. But would he have divorced Lureen, separated at least partly from Bobby, left the convenient life in Childress only for the vague possibility to meet someone else some time in Denver or any other bigger town? I think not.
He didn't do that for the chance to live more near to Ennis, for the chance to meet him hopefully more often, for the hope Ennis might come around eventually (btw, no accusation here, just stating the facts). Therefore I'm sure he wouldn't have done it (leaving his live in Childress) for less than that.

Would they have been able to give their lives a new direction, to start fresh with a good chance to find happiness without each other? Ennis clearly not and I think the same is true for Jack. The main reason I haven't even mentioned yet: because their love for each other was true and deep and mutual.

So having only a bit of the one you love, having only a few weeks of happiness a year was better than to have nothing.

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Would you have lasted 20 years?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2007, 09:55:18 am »
yes.

I lasted longer. Just got married in January, took me 30 years to do it. When I told Annie Proulx her eyes popped, I'm serious lolololol.
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