'Politically correct?'

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000005/thread/40177950?d=40289060#40289060

I realize I should probably be asking the source about this (MovieFan on IMDB) but I don't really feel like talking to him (yet, anyways). But he negatively mentions how Brokeback Mountain is a 'politically correct' gay rights movie, or something along the lines of that.

Why do you think he said that? Just because they didn't say the word "fag" and because "queer" was said only one time? Anyways, I am posting here because I want to know what you guys think of this guy's comment and your opinion on the issue? Is Brokeback Mountain 'politically correct' and is that one of it's strengths, or weaknesses?

[DeeDee]

Honestly, I never thought of BBM as politically anything.  I just saw it as a sad, tragic story that unfortunately mirrors real life in so many different lives.
I can't stand that people try to politicize it.
Sounds to me that this guy is trying to say it was made to pacify the gay community, which to me is insane.
I say take it from where it comes

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

See, same here. I didn't think politics when I watched the movie. I thought they pushed all the issues political issues aside intent on telling an intimate and grim love story. I thought of the characters during the film; I didn't think of gays' rights (well, I started thinking of them after the movie, but that's because I felt so sorry for Jack and Ennis).

I think that's what I want to say to him.

[Lynne]

OK...Here's my two cents on this...

In my opinion, labelling Brokeback Mountain 'politically correct' is simply a poor attempt by someone who feels threatened to diminish or marginalize the messages of this wonderful film.

At one level, it is most certainly a personal and intimate story about two poor shepherds and the love they discovered together.  Just call it the 'gay cowboy movie' if you'd like.  But it is much, much more than that, or we wouldn't be here talking about it.

The 'threat' comes from the underlying messages, from seeing Jack and Ennis, not as gay cowboys, but as people you might know and have come to care for, from seeing some of ourselves in Jack and Ennis, and asking the bigger questions.

I feel like I'm on a soapbox here, so I'm going to stop.

Respectfully,
Lynne

[RouxB]

It might be politically correct if the time and place was Los Angeles or New York 2006 but then it wouldn't be this movie. It, I believe, is an accurate representation of era it represents. 1963-1983 Wyoming-what does the OP think the politics were in that place and time??

 

[starboardlight]

it's funny to me that you have people saying it's a politically correct film, and then you have people who criticize it for being stereotypical. How does a film manage to be both politically correct and politically incorrect at the same time? For me it's a story about Ennis and Jack. What ever else people want to saddle onto it is their baggage, not the films'.

[mg501]

No, I don't think BBM was "politically correct". Just as someone else wrote, it wasn't political at all. I love Jack and Ennis and I have never felt so attached and protective of anyone as I do these two, but they were also flawed characters. If the writer's were tryng to be PC, they would have made the guys "squeaky clean" so to speak.

[oilgun]

If the writer's were tryng to be PC, they would have made the guys "squeaky clean" so to speak.

I agree.  In fact when I first saw the film I anticipated negative reactions from gay activists,  even though I consider myself to be one.  The fact that the characters deny being queer, that they are flawed individuals and one of them dies at the end, I thought for sure that because of that the film would be dismissed by many activists as perpetuating the stereotype of the sad & lonely gay life.  
A few have of course, Brad Fraser and Don Roos come to mind, but generally the film has been embraced by the gay community.

I think it's a testament to the fact that art eclipses politics.

It's still a political film though in the same way that being openly gay is political but it isn't 'PC'.

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

It, I believe, is an accurate representation of era it represents. 1963-1983 Wyoming-what does the OP think the politics were in that place and time??

I agree with that. I was not the one who labeled this movie as 'politically correct' as if that's a bad thing. I think one can find underlying messages in the story but I view the movie as a more intimate experience focused on characters.

Ignorance ensues as I post this next sentence but I wasn't really aware of the 'stereotype of the sad & lonely gay life' when I first saw this movie. If all of these gay films were told as blissfully happy tales then there wouldn't be as much sympathy evoked from the audience members; what I think is important is telling the story (and characters) as close to realistically as possible and I think Brokeback Mountain did that very well.

[delalluvia]

No, I don't think BBM was "politically correct". Just as someone else wrote, it wasn't political at all. I love Jack and Ennis and I have never felt so attached and protective of anyone as I do these two, but they were also flawed characters. If the writer's were tryng to be PC, they would have made the guys "squeaky clean" so to speak.

Agree completely.  If you want a 'pc correct' gay couple check out the couple in the 'Family Stone'.

[OddlyEven]

I definitely don't think this is a political movie. There's a great review at IMDb that was copied and pasted there that is supposedly from an actual cowboy. It's really a good review of the movie. There's a small part in which he mentions the movie shouldn't be an excuse for waving the gay flag around and I agree with him. No, it's isn't political but I do think it's a social movie. If anything the movie shows what love can do, and what can happen if you try to deny it or stifle it. It also shows you what living in fear and homophobia can do to people.

[starboardlight]

The thing with focusing so much on "political correctness" is that you sometimes forget to be honest. I'll tell you, as a gay Asian man, I'm very aware what the stereotypes are about me. I did go through a period of time where I would try to rebel against all of that, but I realized that I still end up reacting to them, instead of just being me. I'm stereotypical in some way and I break the stereotypes in other ways. Take that to the film. It shows gay men in stereotypes in some way and breaks them in other ways, as well. The story isn't concerned about being political. It just wants to be honest and tell about people's lives, and that in the end is why it connects with its audience.

[Shuggy]

I did once see a definition of "politically correct" that made sense, but I've forgotten it and I've seldom seen a use of the term that meant any more than "I don't like it and I can't be bothered to say why (because if I clarified my thoughts I'd be exposing my prejudices)".

Apparently the history of the term is quite interesting, starting in leftist circles and being used pejoratively and satirically by its opponents almost from the very beginning. In other words there never was a time when "politically correct" meant "politically correct". (That is why its so useful: to deny being correct involves anyone in self-contradiction.)

Most of the PC language that is so derided was never used seriously. The most famous case, the "personhole covers" of Woonsocket was laughed out of court as soon as it was mooted.

[starboardlight]

I did once see a definition of "politically correct" that made sense, but I've forgotten it and I've seldom seen a use of the term that meant any more than "I don't like it and I can't be bothered to say why (because if I clarified my thoughts I'd be exposing my prejudices)".

for me the definition that has always stuck with me is "respect". I'll give an example. I meet Ellemeno, and she tells me her name is Clarissa. Out of respect I'll address her as Clarissa from now on. I don't just go "That name's too hard for me, I just call you Clare." We as individuals have a right to be called by a name of our chosing, and in the same way, groups of people have a right to decide how they want to be addressed. I think if you approach it from the focus of respect, any missteps in saying the wrong things, will be easily forgiven.

[Shuggy]

I did once see a definition of "politically correct" that made sense, but I've forgotten it and I've seldom seen a use of the term that meant any more than "I don't like it and I can't be bothered to say why (because if I clarified my thoughts I'd be exposing my prejudices)".

for me the definition that has always stuck with me is "respect". I'll give an example. I meet Ellemeno, and she tells me her name is Clarissa. Out of respect I'll address her as Clarissa from now on. I don't just go "That name's too hard for me, I just call you Clare." We as individuals have a right to be called by a name of our chosing, and in the same way, groups of people have a right to decide how they want to be addressed. I think if you approach it from the focus of respect, any missteps in saying the wrong things, will be easily forgiven.

I couldn't agree more. Another old-fashioned expression for it is "good manners". There are one or two special cases. I am a Pãkehã (non-Mãori New Zealander, cf Hawai`ian haole). Many Pãkehã hate the expression citing supposed insulting derevations from similar Mãori words. These derivations are nonsense. I strongly suspect the real objection is a racist one, that they object to being described by a Mãori word. They often say they are "just New Zealanders" (and there's recently been a flurry over the ethnicity question in the census). But if they are just New Zealanders, does that mean that Mãori are not New Zealanders? As a Pãkehã, I get very annoyed by other Pãkehã trying to take my name from me.

[delalluvia]

I did once see a definition of "politically correct" that made sense, but I've forgotten it and I've seldom seen a use of the term that meant any more than "I don't like it and I can't be bothered to say why (because if I clarified my thoughts I'd be exposing my prejudices)".

for me the definition that has always stuck with me is "respect". I'll give an example. I meet Ellemeno, and she tells me her name is Clarissa. Out of respect I'll address her as Clarissa from now on. I don't just go "That name's too hard for me, I just call you Clare." We as individuals have a right to be called by a name of our chosing, and in the same way, groups of people have a right to decide how they want to be addressed. I think if you approach it from the focus of respect, any missteps in saying the wrong things, will be easily forgiven.

I couldn't agree more. Another old-fashioned expression for it is "good manners". There are one or two special cases. I am a Pãkehã (non-Mãori New Zealander, cf Hawai`ian haole). Many Pãkehã hate the expression citing supposed insulting derevations from similar Mãori words. These derivations are nonsense. I strongly suspect the real objection is a racist one, that they object to being described by a Mãori word. They often say they are "just New Zealanders" (and there's recently been a flurry over the ethnicity question in the census). But if they are just New Zealanders, does that mean that Mãori are not New Zealanders? As a Pãkehã, I get very annoyed by other Pãkehã trying to take my name from me.

Agree.  For me Politically Correct, started out as the idea that everyone's feelings matter.  It became an unworkable concept, but the idea is still true.

Everyone's feelings DO matter, don't they?

[starboardlight]

I did once see a definition of "politically correct" that made sense, but I've forgotten it and I've seldom seen a use of the term that meant any more than "I don't like it and I can't be bothered to say why (because if I clarified my thoughts I'd be exposing my prejudices)".

for me the definition that has always stuck with me is "respect". I'll give an example. I meet Ellemeno, and she tells me her name is Clarissa. Out of respect I'll address her as Clarissa from now on. I don't just go "That name's too hard for me, I just call you Clare." We as individuals have a right to be called by a name of our chosing, and in the same way, groups of people have a right to decide how they want to be addressed. I think if you approach it from the focus of respect, any missteps in saying the wrong things, will be easily forgiven.

I couldn't agree more. Another old-fashioned expression for it is "good manners". There are one or two special cases. I am a Pãkehã (non-Mãori New Zealander, cf Hawai`ian haole). Many Pãkehã hate the expression citing supposed insulting derevations from similar Mãori words. These derivations are nonsense. I strongly suspect the real objection is a racist one, that they object to being described by a Mãori word. They often say they are "just New Zealanders" (and there's recently been a flurry over the ethnicity question in the census). But if they are just New Zealanders, does that mean that Mãori are not New Zealanders? As a Pãkehã, I get very annoyed by other Pãkehã trying to take my name from me.

and such conflict always happen within groups. even as an individual there are times when you can't make up your mind about how you want to be named. I know I went through some time where I thought I might change my name. Nipith is not a usual name and many people have a difficult time saying it. And my last name, Ongwiseth, just scares people like you wouldn't believe. (btw if you just break it into parts, it fairly straight forward; ong-wi-seth) there are times that I get tired that people get hung up on being so afraid to butcher my name that it hinders them getting to know me. but again, if you just approach it with respect, I wouldn't be offended if you got it wrong.