Cold Case: Forever Blue

[twistedude]

Letter to my sister yesterday:

My movie has had a very prestigeous infant. There is a series on CBS (for whicvh I am developing a grudging admiration) called "Cold Case Files." The episode in question is called "Forever Blue."


Link to download (it aired last Sunday):

Big discussion on DaveCillen. Several Youtubes alreadyy---really good ones.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QP3NH3CQ

[SFEnnisSF]

I got a copy of this but it won't play on my computer. 

I'll try this link and download it tonight and see if that works.  Thanks Julie.

[twistedude]

I almost know it by heart. If you save it "to disk"--that just means you can save it to any of your personal files you want (instead of opening it), you can watch it any time yoiu want, no wait.

There is a "Cold Case Files" series running on A&E. It;'s very different. they are true to life stories, with a narrator, lots of dates, and a maximum of objectivity. They are real stories. I went looking there because I saw another Cold Case video, "Strange Fruit," which also looked great..;   This A&E show is not artistic, tells no story, and has nio points to make, except that some old murder got solved. I do not recommend it. They are NOT re-runs of the "Cold Case" on CBS....that I can tell.

[SFEnnisSF]

Darn, it's the same file. It won't play on my computer.  I get sound, but no video. 

[twistedude]

Eric, when you are offfered the choice between "open" and "save to disk," save to disk. "Disk" just means your own hard drive--your own documenws file. I have watched the pixels off it...

A MAINASTREAM TELEVISION show episode? Is that or is it not more important than all the awards?

And it is so BEAUTIFUL!

[mvansand76]

I haven't watched that many episodes of Cold Case and we are only at season 2 in Holland, but this episode from season 4 was brought to my attention. I am not sure how much I should reveal about the plot, you should probably just watch it. It brought tears to my eyes and Brokeback hasn't even been able to do that lately. That's a sad notion in more than one way.     



This is the link, courtesy of the people who started the Cold Case thread on DaveCullen.com:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QP3NH3CQ

File size 350 Mb.
File type   AVI

download player :    http://www.divx.com/

(I hope it's OK that I post this link here, if anybody objects, please let me know and I will make it a link to the specific thread on davecullen.com.)

[David In Indy]

What is this episode about? Can you give us a little hint?

I have dial-up at my house, but I'll try to download it and watch it. I always trust your judgment, and if you say it's good and worth watching, I'm sure it is.

I haven't watched too many episodes of "Cold Case" but I will try like hell to watch it Melissa. 

[mvansand76]

What is this episode about? Can you give us a little hint?

I have dial-up at my house, but I'll try to download it and watch it. I always trust your judgment, and if you say it's good and worth watching, I'm sure it is.

I haven't watched too many episodes of "Cold Case" but I will try like hell to watch it Melissa. 

Hey sweetie, well you know I am not in my right mind right now with all the DSL-stress I have had to endure, so I forgot to give at least a small hint.
The unsolved case is that of the murder on a cop in 1968. It seems like he might have been corrupt (is that what you call it?) but during the episode you find out what really happened (duh... obviously), you find out everything about him and his father and his best friend, Jimmy.

I really don't want to say too much, but you might be able to infer that there is a Brokeback-Twist to this.....

[midwest-girl]

It's an amazing episode, David.  I highly recommend it!

[j.U.d.E.]

Oh! I think I think I've seen that one! Is some of the plot happening in a small alley between to buildings? If yes, then I've seen that episode! Too bad I missed it tonight! I do have Dutch channels!

j. U. d. E.

[starboardlight]

thanks for sharing that with us. that was a very well done episode. great story telling.


SPOILER ***** SPOILER





I can't help but think there was some Brokeback hommage as well. Two guys sitting in lawn chairs sharing a bottle of whiskey was the most obvious one I think. And the use of the word "partner" has a cowboy tone to it.

I also love how "my partner" had double meaning, referring to Coop as his work buddy as well as his lover.

I was also impressed that the show confronts today's audience about the issue as well. It would have been easy to just say, that was the 60's. That how attitudes were back then, but the characters still show that they're uncomfortable about homosexuality today. Through out the episode there was thread of "things were different back then" tone when they talked about gender, attitude, standards, but then when it came to homosexuality they showed that it's still isn't all that different.

[SFEnnisSF]

Hooray! 

I downloaded some Divx crap onto my computer and it finally played. 

[starboardlight]

I almost know it by heart. If you save it "to disk"--that just means you can save it to any of your personal files you want (instead of opening it), you can watch it any time yoiu want, no wait.

There is a "Cold Case Files" series running on A&E. It;'s very different. they are true to life stories, with a narrator, lots of dates, and a maximum of objectivity. They are real stories. I went looking there because I saw another Cold Case video, "Strange Fruit," which also looked great..;   This A&E show is not artistic, tells no story, and has nio points to make, except that some old murder got solved. I do not recommend it. They are NOT re-runs of the "Cold Case" on CBS....that I can tell.

it's weird, but I get sucked into those forensic shows that A&E runs. Cold Case Files is one of those that I can have running all day as I fold my laundry, iron my shirts, etc.

but yeah, this episode that you're talking about is good.

[mvansand76]

MORE SPOILERS....

thanks for sharing that with us. that was a very well done episode. great story telling.


SPOILER ***** SPOILER





I can't help but think there was some Brokeback hommage as well. Two guys sitting in lawn chairs sharing a bottle of whiskey was the most obvious one I think. And the use of the word "partner" has a cowboy tone to it.

I also love how "my partner" had double meaning, referring to Coop as his work buddy as well as his lover.

I was also impressed that the show confronts today's audience about the issue as well. It would have been easy to just say, that was the 60's. That how attitudes were back then, but the characters still show that they're uncomfortable about homosexuality today. Through out the episode there was thread of "things were different back then" tone when they talked about gender, attitude, standards, but then when it came to homosexuality they showed that it's still isn't all that different.

Yeah, that's when they said when they left the church after having spoken to Jimmy's ex-wife... "Still is...".

I couldn't help but feel the BBM resemblance too and I liked it. This really does show that this did happen everywhere, even if it's not based on true events, we can still imagine that this actually happened, maybe more often than we think.

Yeah, the partner was great, when I finished watching the episode I watched the baptising scene in the beginning again and I could see the small details of this scene more clearly.

It's a great episode isn't it?

[mvansand76]

Oh! I think I think I've seen that one! Is some of the plot happening in a small alley between to buildings? If yes, then I've seen that episode! Too bad I missed it tonight! I do have Dutch channels!

j. U. d. E.

I am not sure if that's the same episode you are referring too, are you able to download the episode and find out? It wasn't on Dutch TV, they are only at the second season here in Holland!

This is really worth seeing!!!

[mvansand76]

Oh only now do I realise that there is already a thread dedicated to this, I am sorry Twistedude, I wasn't feeling very well last night, so I just posted it and didn't check if there was already a thread!

More people should watch this!!!!!

BTW- The series is called Cold Case, not Cold Case Files, that's a different show that started in 2004 as far as I know...

[saucycobblers]

Oh Melissa, GOD BLESS YOU!!! I've been desperate to see the whole episode ever since I saw the snippets on Youtube. I kept hoping someone would post the whole episode there but no such luck. To my knowledge, we don't get Cold Case at all here in the UK, and so many of the episode snippets on Youtube look fantastic - I wish they'd bring the whole series over!

Bear with me, 'cos I've never downloaded a programme from a website before (yes I know, I know  ). Can I watch just this episode free on a trial basis, or do I need to subscribe and pay a fee?

[David In Indy]

Okay, now I REALLY want to watch this episode! I wonder if I can buy it on DVD??

What season is this episode? I'll try to find it at Wal-Mart or Best Buy the next time I'm there.

[mvansand76]

Oh Melissa, GOD BLESS YOU!!! I've been desperate to see the whole episode ever since I saw the snippets on Youtube. I kept hoping someone would post the whole episode there but no such luck. To my knowledge, we don't get Cold Case at all here in the UK, and so many of the episode snippets on Youtube look fantastic - I wish they'd bring the whole series over!

Bear with me, 'cos I've never downloaded a programme from a website before (yes I know, I know  ). Can I watch just this episode free on a trial basis, or do I need to subscribe and pay a fee?

No need for that at all, once you click on the link at the top and get to the site you will see a code (you need to really look for it) and next to that a fill in box, you fill in the box with the code and press download and it will download immediately! If you are on DSL or Cable, it should take you less than an hour!

 

Okay, now I REALLY want to watch this episode! I wonder if I can buy it on DVD??

What season is this episode? I'll try to find it at Wal-Mart or Best Buy the next time I'm there.

It was broadcast only two weeks ago, so I doubt it's on DVD now, you're gonna have to head on over to your dad's house NOW! 

[saucycobblers]

No need for that at all, once you click on the link at the top and get to the site you will see a code (you need to really look for it) and next to that a fill in box, you fill in the box with the code and press download and it will download immediately! If you are on DSL or Cable, it should take you less than an hour!

HELP!! I've entered the code and pressed download (it was a 45 second download) and its just a Megaupload front page still. I've no idea what I've downloaded or where its gone, or how to get to the actual episode to download it. I've not downloaded the DivX stuff yet. I'm confused!!

[mvansand76]

HELP!! I've entered the code and pressed download (it was a 45 second download) and its just a Megaupload front page still. I've no idea what I've downloaded or where its gone, or how to get to the actual episode to download it. I've not downloaded the DivX stuff yet. I'm confused!!

The 45 seconds is the waiting time for the download to load, after that it will say PRESS HERE TO DOWNLOAD and if you do that you will get the familiar pop-up asking you if you want to open or save the file. You should then save the file on your desktop or anywhere else. Let me know if it worked!

[saucycobblers]

 

Woooeeeeeee!!!!!!!

My first video download, and it worked!! This is SO exciting!!!

I'm just about to settle down to watch with some vegetable soup, goats cheese pizza and a nice glass of wine...ahhhhh!!!

Melissa...mwah, mwah, mwah 

[saucycobblers]

Ooooo, that was excellent!! 

Great playing from both lead actors, but the guy who played Coop - brilliant - and that scene in the church with his dad...

[starboardlight]

... and that scene in the church with his dad...

no kidding. hits close to home for me.

[mvansand76]

Ooooo, that was excellent!! 

Great playing from both lead actors, but the guy who played Coop - brilliant - and that scene in the church with his dad...

"Don't look at me like that, pop, ....please..."

It's so beautiful how he stands up to his dad here, not looking away, not telling any lies: "Do you really want to talk about this?" That look on his face just broke my heart. So powerful, isn't it?

[saucycobblers]

That look on his face just broke my heart. So powerful, isn't it?

I could watch this guy's face all day - amazingly expressive eyes and so much going on behind them.

[Kelda]

bumping this to find it once I have my connection fixed on the laptop and can downlaod happily away...

i wonder if this place also has amazing race episodes?? its like f aile sharing with friends thing then? rtaher than youtube where you can search?

The thing that annoys me abot you tube is you can only like have 10mins max in one video, yes?

(saucy - I havn't  downloaded either as my computer i use at the moat home is rubbish - so I'm a total technophobe in that way too!)

[mvansand76]

I could watch this guy's face all day - amazingly expressive eyes and so much going on behind them.

You bet! I think we will be hearing a lot more from him. I was mesmerised by his face too, he is not classicly good-looking, but there is something he does with his face that is just very intriguing.

SPOILERS-----------------------------------------





The scene where he has to go through different emotions is the scene where he gets caught in the kitchen with Jimmy's wife and the guy asks him how long has this been going on and you can see this expression on his face and you know that he is not gonna lie about him and Jimmy and then the guy asks Does Jimmy know? and he realises he doesn't know and his expression changes in an instant. Wonderful acting.

Don't you think it was striking in this scene that his dad was all upset (euphemism) about him being gay and not about him having a love affair with a married man?

[midwest-girl]

"Don't look at me like that, pop, ....please..."

It's so beautiful how he stands up to his dad here, not looking away, not telling any lies: "Do you really want to talk about this?" That look on his face just broke my heart. So powerful, isn't it?

That church scene w/ his dad just broke my heart.  I was so proud of him.  Standing up for himself, standing up for Jimmy, not backing down.  I just wanted to hug him.  Amazing bit of acting, right there.

[mvansand76]

That church scene w/ his dad just broke my heart.  I was so proud of him.  Standing up for himself, standing up for Jimmy, not backing down.  I just wanted to hug him.  Amazing bit of acting, right there.

Yeah, I was really affected by this scene, because it shows you once again how strong Coop is, both mentally and physically, like his dad said he came out with his fists clenched.

So I am wondering about something: was that scene with his dad right after the christening? I guess it is, but that means that at the Christening Jimmy and Coop already had the talk where they, at least I think, decided to give it a go?

[midwest-girl]

Yeah, I was really affected by this scene, because it shows you once again how strong Coop is, both mentally and physically, like his dad said he came out with his fists clenched.

So I am wondering about something: was that scene with his dad right after the christening? I guess it is, but that means that at the Christening Jimmy and Coop already had the talk where they, at least I think, decided to give it a go?

I'm not sure.  Probably, because Owen said he saw Coop and Jimmy talking about giving it a go when he was hiding in his patrol car and then he said he talked to Coop's dad and that was at the christening.  So yeah, I think that's the right timing.

[mvansand76]

STILL SPOILERS

I'm not sure.  Probably, because Owen said he saw Coop and Jimmy talking about giving it a go when he was hiding in his patrol car and then he said he talked to Coop's dad and that was at the christening.  So yeah, I think that's the right timing.

Yeah I thought so. I was really confused by the end of the conversation just before they touched hands, where Jimmy says I don't know and Coop says are you sure and Jimmy replies Guess I don't have a choice. Do you really think that they decided to try a life together, it's such confusing dialogue. 

[midwest-girl]

STILL SPOILERS



Yeah I thought so. I was really confused by the end of the conversation just before they touched hands, where Jimmy says I don't know and Coop says are you sure and Jimmy replies Guess I don't have a choice. Do you really think that they decided to try a life together, it's such confusing dialogue. 

I honestly thought Jimmy was saying he doesn't have a choice but to keep on with his life with Eileen.  But I think at some later point they had another discussion where he opted to make a go of it with Coop b/c in their final scene when Jimmy says he's not queer he also says, "I wasn't thinking right when we talked."  One of the saddest things about this episode for me is that I think if Coop hadn't been killed Jimmy would have taken a chance on their life together.  I mean, he freaked out there at the end when Owen opened his big stupid mouth about the bath houses, but he hadn't gone ten steps away from Coop before he tried to call him back.  I don't think Jimmy had it in him to walk away from Coop.  It's so depressing....   

[mvansand76]

I don't think Jimmy had it in him to walk away from Coop.  It's so depressing....   

Oh I totally agree, the look on his face after he said "I aint queer" (BBM anyone...? ) and he turns around said enough really, he would never be able to go through with that, with not seeing Jimmy. I also agree with you that they would have agreed to at least find another, more satisfying way to be together. That makes it more hopeful and at the same time a more tragic story.

[SFEnnisSF]

I definitely think BBM was the inspiration for this episode.  I'm guessing it was written back in March at the height of the BBM frenzy, and then filmed during the summer.  So many parallels to BBM.

That said, who wants to start the petition to have this made into a full two hour movie, with all the scenes between Jimmy & Coop we didn't see!     

[David In Indy]

I definitely think BBM was the inspiration for this episode.  I'm guessing it was written back in March at the height of the BBM frenzy, and then filmed during the summer.  So many parallels to BBM.

That said, who wants to start the petition to have this made into a full two hour movie, with all the scenes between Jimmy & Coop we didn't see!     

<raising hand>

I'll sign it! Just tell me where to sign (or go)! 

[mvansand76]

I definitely think BBM was the inspiration for this episode.  I'm guessing it was written back in March at the height of the BBM frenzy, and then filmed during the summer.  So many parallels to BBM.

That said, who wants to start the petition to have this made into a full two hour movie, with all the scenes between Jimmy & Coop we didn't see!     

A big YEAH to that!!!!! This story deserves to be made into a feature-length movie!!!!

[saucycobblers]

Don't you think it was striking in this scene that his dad was all upset (euphemism) about him being gay and not about him having a love affair with a married man?

His dad's concern was never about him having affairs with married people - remember the look of pride on his face when the older dad talks about Coop being a ladies man, like it was a badge of honour almost? His main concern was the disgrace Coop was supposedly going to bring on the family name - these are military or military-type environments where adhering to the code (a code where having sex with another man's wife or taking back-handers is okay, but being gay is not) is everything, as is reputation.

Oh, I'm loving this. It's just like the 'let's pick everything apart' discussions I used to have just after I saw BBM for the first time!

[saucycobblers]

I definitely think BBM was the inspiration for this episode.  I'm guessing it was written back in March at the height of the BBM frenzy, and then filmed during the summer.  So many parallels to BBM.

That said, who wants to start the petition to have this made into a full two hour movie, with all the scenes between Jimmy & Coop we didn't see!     

OMG, I was soooo thinking this at the end of the programme - imagining all the scenes building up to the kiss, the first time they meet, the conversations we never hear that build up to that amazingly romantic moment when their hands touch (my favourite bit - gives me goosebumps...).

What're the chances though, so soon after BBM??

[mvansand76]

His dad's concern was never about him having affairs with married people - remember the look of pride on his face when the older dad talks about Coop being a ladies man, like it was a badge of honour almost? His main concern was the disgrace Coop was supposedly going to bring on the family name - these are military or military-type environments where adhering to the code (a code where having sex with another man's wife or taking back-handers is okay, but being gay is not) is everything, as is reputation.

Oh, I'm loving this. It's just like the 'let's pick everything apart' discussions I used to have just after I saw BBM for the first time!

It's sick and twisted. It's like when they talk to Coop's father and the investigator says "No never THAT..." when Coop's father says "Not.... THAT..."

I am loving this too  , I have so many more things I want to discuss so I hope we will be joined by even more people, we should get people who haven't watched it yet to watch this episode!

OMG, I was soooo thinking this at the end of the programme - imagining all the scenes building up to the kiss, the first time they meet, the conversations we never hear that build up to that amazingly romantic moment when their hands touch (my favourite bit - gives me goosebumps...).

What're the chances though, so soon after BBM??

I think it really is worth a whole movie, there is so much in this story that is so interesting. Hey anybody notice the Eileen/Lureen thing? 

The hands touching was beautiful, such a small gesture with so much meaning behind it....

[saucycobblers]

I think it really is worth a whole movie, there is so much in this story that is so interesting. Hey anybody notice the Eileen/Lureen thing? 

Noticed the Lureen parallel straight away, and thought there was something of Alma in there too - perhaps even more Alma than Lureen?

It just struck me that this episode is a bit like the original BBM novella - it just gives you snippets upon which you can build your own imagining of the characters and their histories.

[mvansand76]

Noticed the Lureen parallel straight away, and thought there was something of Alma in there too - perhaps even more Alma than Lureen?

It just struck me that this episode is a bit like the original BBM novella - it just gives you snippets upon which you can build your own imagining of the characters and their histories.

Yeah and it did a very good job in telling the story in such a way, I really did feel for the two guys right from the first minute of the episode. I did know what was going to happen, but after finishing the episode I had to go back and watch the first scene again!

[starboardlight]

STILL SPOILERS



Yeah I thought so. I was really confused by the end of the conversation just before they touched hands, where Jimmy says I don't know and Coop says are you sure and Jimmy replies Guess I don't have a choice. Do you really think that they decided to try a life together, it's such confusing dialogue. 

yeah, the time sequence was a bit jumbled up, wasn't it? it was in the christening scene that Jimmy talked about his son growing up to be something other than a cop, and Coop says, "guys like us stuck with this life." or something to that effect. But in the scene where they talked by the cars, Jimmy reminded Coop of what he said, but that scene is supposed to have happened before the Christening?

[twistedude]

There are at least 3 fanfictions about it on LiveJournal, and a 50-some page thread on it on DaveCullen. There's really nothing wrong with the factual "Cold Case Files' running on A&E--why the hell was I so negastive?

But this episode on CBS is haunting and beautiful.

I think she meant Eileen/Alma.

First verse of first song:

I could hide neath the wings
of the bluebird as she sings.
The six o"clock alarm would never ring.
But it rings, and I rise
rub the sleep out of my eyes.
My shavin' razor's cold and it stings.

Last two lines of last song:

Ah, but i was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

[midwest-girl]

yeah, the time sequence was a bit jumbled up, wasn't it? it was in the christening scene that Jimmy talked about his son growing up to be something other than a cop, and Coop says, "guys like us stuck with this life." or something to that effect. But in the scene where they talked by the cars, Jimmy reminded Coop of what he said, but that scene is supposed to have happened before the Christening?

I'm not sure that in the scene where they touch hands and are talking about a life together that Coop is referring to the christening when he talks about a different kind of life.  For starters, like you said, I think the Christening comes after that scene.  I think there were other talks we just didn't see.  Because in that final scene Jimmy says, "I wasn't thinking right when we talked" and references spending time at Coop's place.  I wish we could have heard the talk(s) they had about being together.  Of course, that would just break my heart even more at the end.   

[midwest-girl]

I think she meant Eileen/Alma.

Julie, I think she was talking about the similarities between the names Eileen and Lureen.  I could be wrong, though.

[twistedude]

I just posted this post, and I'm NOT going to go through it again in whole!
DEFINITE SPOILERS!
There are 3 scenes between the cars:
1) the one in which Coop says "We're the lucky ones," and Jimmy answers "I don't know" and Coop says: "you sure about that?" and Jimmy says "I guess..i have no choice." and the camera shows their hands grazing between them.
In the seond, Jimmy breaks it off, right before Coop's death.
In the third, in Jimmy's mind only, he walks into the old yard (2006) and sees Coop, young, standing by his car with his hand on the hood. Jimmy walks over to him and puts his hand on Coop's. They are both young again. Then the scene fades, and the cars and Coop disappear, and Jimmy is an old man again.

The scene in the backyard that Eileen witnesses happens several months before the christening scene--since she's only 5-6 months pregnant in the backyard scene.

[midwest-girl]

I just posted this post, and I'm NOT going to go through it again in whole!
DEFINITE SPOILERS!
There are 3 scenes between the cars:
1) the one in which Coop says "We're the lucky ones," and Jimmy answers "I don't know" and Coop says: "you sure about that?" and Jimmy says "I guess..i have no choice." and the camera shows their hands grazing between them.

Julie, this is the scene we're talking about.  It happens before the christening and we were saying we wish we could have heard all of the conversations between them that they refer to throughout the episode.

[belbbmfan]

Thanks for posting the link. I watched this episode and yes, very BBM. heartbreaking story.

I loved how Coop leans against the petrol car in the last scene, that reminded me so much of Jack and Ennis's first meeting outside Aguirre's trailer.

And a very sad moment when Jimmy said 'I miss him'    It was clear he really loved Coop.

[mvansand76]

Julie, I think she was talking about the similarities between the names Eileen and Lureen.  I could be wrong, though.

I was indeed, thank you Amy... 

[mvansand76]

Thanks for posting the link. I watched this episode and yes, very BBM. heartbreaking story.

I loved how Coop leans against the petrol car in the last scene, that reminded me so much of Jack and Ennis's first meeting outside Aguirre's trailer.

And a very sad moment when Jimmy said 'I miss him'    It was clear he really loved Jimmy.

Glad you liked it too! I loved that part too, there are so many loving references to BBM!

[starboardlight]

The scene in the backyard that Eileen witnesses happens several months before the christening scene--since she's only 5-6 months pregnant in the backyard scene.

yep, that scene is really reminiscent of Alma. Not that Alma was pregnant when she peaked out at Ennis and Jack, but the way it happened recalls that scene from BBM, plus Eileen being in a light color night gown is reminiscent of Alma in her light colored night gown.

It just hit me that we're talking about the same time period too, aren't we. They are such different worlds, Wyoming and Boston. (I think it's Boston, right?) Kinda goes back what could Ennis and Jack have really hoped for, in escaping to bigger cities? Not much better. Ennis would still not be free to be honest about his own feeling, as we can see in Jimmy's reactions.

btw, when Coop drove off to answer the dispatch, I was almost expecting a shot of him looking into his rear view mirror at Jimmy standin by the road.

[mvansand76]

yep, that scene is really reminiscent of Alma. Not that Alma was pregnant when she peaked out at Ennis and Jack, but the way it happened recalls that scene from BBM, plus Eileen being in a light color night gown is reminiscent of Alma in her light colored night gown.

It just hit me that we're talking about the same time period too, aren't we. They are such different worlds, Wyoming and Boston. (I think it's Boston, right?) Kinda goes back what could Ennis and Jack have really hoped for, in escaping to bigger cities? Not much better. Ennis would still not be free to be honest about his own feeling, as we can see in Jimmy's reactions.

btw, when Coop drove off to answer the dispatch, I was almost expecting a shot of him looking into his rear view mirror at Jimmy standin by the road.

Great post! I was thinking of that too, it's about the time of J&E's reunion. It's sad isn't it, that there really was no way out, that there were really no 'better' places to go. Makes me very sad.

[midwest-girl]

It just hit me that we're talking about the same time period too, aren't we. They are such different worlds, Wyoming and Boston. (I think it's Boston, right?) Kinda goes back what could Ennis and Jack have really hoped for, in escaping to bigger cities? Not much better. Ennis would still not be free to be honest about his own feeling, as we can see in Jimmy's reactions.

btw, when Coop drove off to answer the dispatch, I was almost expecting a shot of him looking into his rear view mirror at Jimmy standin by the road.

It's Philadelphia, I'm pretty sure.  I agree that things wouldn't have been easy for Jimmy and Coop but I do think they had an advantage being city kids that Jack and Ennis never had.  I mean, at least living in a city they were aware of other gay men, the gay life was at least a presence in their world, if that makes any sense.  That's one of the reasons why I think they had a much better chance at taking a shot at being together than Jack and Ennis even did.

[David In Indy]

It's Philadelphia, I'm pretty sure.  I agree that things wouldn't have been easy for Jimmy and Coop but I do think they had an advantage being city kids that Jack and Ennis never had.  I mean, at least living in a city they were aware of other gay men, the gay life was at least a presence in their world, if that makes any sense.  That's one of the reasons why I think they had a much better chance at taking a shot at being together than Jack and Ennis even did.

I think you're probably right Amy. And East coast or West coast cities would have helped too. Even large cities here in the Midwest can be very rough for gay people... even now.

I can't wait until this weekend when I can watch this episode! You all have really stirred my curiosity about it. 

[mvansand76]

I can't wait until this weekend when I can watch this episode! You all have really stirred my curiosity about it. 

Yippeeee! We did it! Come back here and discuss the episode with us as soon as you've seen it, will ya?

[David In Indy]

Yippeeee! We did it! Come back here and discuss the episode with us as soon as you've seen it, will ya?

I sure will! 

But you should go to bed! 

It's late over there in Amsterdam!

I'll drop a post in here just as soon as I watch it.

[midwest-girl]

I think you're probably right Amy. And East coast or West coast cities would have helped too. Even large cities here in the Midwest can be very rough for gay people... even now.

I can't wait until this weekend when I can watch this episode! You all have really stirred my curiosity about it. 

Where exactly are you, David? I'm in Kansas City.  Which, surprisingly enough, is pretty gay-friendly.  Not in every part of the city, and probably not in some of the 'burbs, but overall, better than people would expect, I'm guessing. 

[David In Indy]

Where exactly are you, David? I'm in Kansas City.  Which, surprisingly enough, is pretty gay-friendly.  Not in every part of the city, and probably not in some of the 'burbs, but overall, better than people would expect, I'm guessing. 

Amy, I'm in Indianapolis. I live on the west side of town (Speedway area). 

[twistedude]

It is definitely Philaelphia. I've watched it...jeez...fifty times.
yes, that's a TV show, or a short story, as opposed to a movie or a novel. Everything that can't be gotten in has to be implied, and your imagination has to be working full blast. I LOVE short stories...


SPOLIERS!
This song, "Daydream believer," plays from the beginning, though the time Coop appears in the church door with the sun behind him (first chrous) to Coop dead in his police car. I know it's just an old Monkees song, but does anyone (but me) make more of it than that?

http://paradise-engineering.com/quotation/daydream-believer.html  Click on "Daydream Believer" in red; you may need to have RealPlayer.
 
Daydream Believer

Oh, I could hide 'neath the wings
Of the bluebird as she sings.
The six o'clock alarm would never ring.
But it rings and I rise,
Wipe the sleep out of my eyes.
My shavin' razor's cold and it stings.


Cheer up, Sleepy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.


You once thought of me
As a white knight on a steed.
Now you know how happy I can be.
Oh, and our good times start and end
Without dollar one to spend.
But how much, baby, do we really need.

Cheer up, Sleepy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.
Cheer up, Sleepy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

Cheer up, Sleepy Jean.
Oh, what can it mean.
To a daydream believer
And a homecoming queen.

(I never pay much attention to pronouns, nouns or proper nouns when I'm listening to a song...)

[mvansand76]

Yeeeh David is gonna watch it today and he is gonna come back and discuss it!

[starboardlight]

It's Philadelphia, I'm pretty sure.  I agree that things wouldn't have been easy for Jimmy and Coop but I do think they had an advantage being city kids that Jack and Ennis never had.  I mean, at least living in a city they were aware of other gay men, the gay life was at least a presence in their world, if that makes any sense.  That's one of the reasons why I think they had a much better chance at taking a shot at being together than Jack and Ennis even did.

yep. I agree. Jimmy and Coop would have had a chance at being happy.

The conversation Jimmy and Coop at the Christening about Jimmy's son becoming something other than a cop may have seemed innocent (similar conversation happens again later in the episode), but to me it reveals the boys beginning to realize that they could be more/different than what people expect of them. It takes that kind of realization to accept oneself as a gay man. I really appreciate that kind of psychological details in the writing.

[mvansand76]

yep. I agree. Jimmy and Coop would have had a chance at being happy.

The conversation Jimmy and Coop at the Christening about Jimmy's son becoming something other than a cop may have seemed innocent (similar conversation happens again later in the episode), but to me it reveals the boys beginning to realize that they could be more/different than what people expect of them. It takes that kind of realization to accept oneself as a gay man. I really appreciate that kind of psychological details in the writing.

It was so interesting to realise at the end of the episode that this first scene happens after they started their love affair. If you didn't know anything about the episode, then it all comes as a surprise. Did you guys notice the way they were standing was next to each other and facing the altar, as if they were gonna get married...

[twistedude]

As I and a bunch of others have said, the backyard scene HAS to be well before the christening,because Eileen's just a few months pregnant with the kid she's christening. The christening is almost at the END, time-wise, since Murph tells Sarge about them "right after the christening," and Sarge, what an IDIOT (excuse me) tells McCree...
"sort him out"? "rough 'em up"? Yurg...cops.
When Coop apologizes to Eileen for being late, he's not just apologizing for being late (look at her face,). And his.

Second thoughts:Just because  I told you to go to hell, why did you jump to the conclusion that I wanted you to go there alone?

[starboardlight]

Just because  I told you to go to hell, why did you jump to the conclusion that I wanted you to go there alone?[/b]

 

[David In Indy]

Coop, to Jimmy's 5-year-old son: "Hey--how's my deputy?...Sweetheart." As I and a bunch of others have said, the backyard scene HAS to be well before the christening,because Eileen's just a few months pregnant with the kid she's christening. The christening is almost at the END, time-wise, since Murph tells Sarge about them "right after the christening," and Sarge, what an IDIOT (excuse me) tells McCree...
"sort him out"? "rough 'em up"? Yurg...cops.
When Coop apologizes to Eileen for being late, he's not just apologizing for being late (look at her face,) and when Coop calls Jimmy's son "Sweetheart," the tone of his voice betrays that's he's speaking to the son of his lover (to whom he could never say "Sweetheart" in public--but you can say stuff like that to kids, when you're a close friend of the family. )

Second thoughts:Just because  I told you to go to hell, why did you jump to the conclusion that I wanted you to go there alone?

 

Huh?

[David In Indy]

Yeeeh David is gonna watch it today and he is gonna come back and discuss it!

I didn't make to my Dad's house today. I came down with something, and I'm as sick as hell. Sorry! Just as soon as I get better, I go watch it. 

[mvansand76]

I didn't make to my Dad's house today. I came down with something, and I'm as sick as hell. Sorry! Just as soon as I get better, I go watch it. 

That's OK, don't worry about it, you have something to look forward to now, prepare to cry your eyes out!

[twistedude]

David: "Huh?" Have eliminated some stuff. Sorry.


SPOILERS
I've almost finished a story called "The Rookie," from ther POV of the guy Bruno takes out with him the night Coop is killed.



Coop: Bout time.

[twistedude]

david: Sorry of you didn't understand all my ramblings. Hasve eliminated some, but not all orf the ramblings.

The photocap (yeah, I know this isn't the photocap thread) is fine; someone likied it, which is all any photocapper wants. esp.  from starboardlight.


Jimmy: Have you tried aloe vera?

[mvansand76]

Did anybody notice at the end when Jimmy calls back Coop he doesn't make an attempt to run after the car, and did you think Coop did not hear him or ignored him? I mean, Coop did not drive that fast!

[twistedude]

I think he was feeling pissed, or just hopeless. AND..he didn't know....

david:..I'll look over the post that you wrote "huh?" about...maybe parts don't make any sense...I'll change them if I can. And sorry to have offended or confused you. Chaned some, eliminated others. Sorry.

I QUIT SMOKING! (now isnt THAT relevant?)

My story now called "Lines of Communication." Written out in longhand, so changes are being made. I won't post it if it isn't any good. No sex, sorry (I think maybe some of you will feel that coming from me...that's a relief! My slash is not good, and it can be...very controversial (my shrink says nothing is wrong with my mind, but I SHOULDN'T WRITE EVERYTHING THAT COMES INTO IT...

Sheera has written 2 one-shots; jack'sharmonica one. Look at DaveCullen once in a while...the place is literally swarming with fucking geniuses. They have a 63- PAGE thread on FB. Great photos, and URLs of all the stories.... davecullen.com--you have to sign up to read the FB thread, but it's easy, and worth it. It's under "The Juicy Bits." (Since the show is rated TV14, I'm not sure why...)


Jimmy, thinking:  Hey..what a great idea!

[twistedude]

Shane Johnson. Yum...

[twistedude]

"With an expression of controlled desparation..."

[David In Indy]

Did anybody notice at the end when Jimmy calls back Coop he doesn't make an attempt to run after the car, and did you think Coop did not hear him or ignored him? I mean, Coop did not drive that fast!

I love that new avatar of yours Melissa! 

Sometimes I feel like that too.   

Sometimes I feel like I'm going to lose it and just go crazy!   

I'm feeling inspired now! I'm going to go work on my new picture!   

[mvansand76]

I love that new avatar of yours Melissa! 

Sometimes I feel like that too.   

Sometimes I feel like I'm going to lose it and just go crazy!   

I'm feeling inspired now! I'm going to go work on my new picture!   

Well, we're all CRAZY sometimes, aren't we? And I stress the SOMETIMES...

[milomorris]

This story hit me pretty hard. There are a number of connections here.
Cold Case is shot in Philadelphia, where I live. I recognized several
of the exteriors where this episode was shot. I have worked for the
local casting agent for Cold Case back when they had the contract for
Hack. There are some familiar faces in the background of this series.

Also, I know a gay Philadelphia police lieutenant personally. From
time to time, he pops into one of my favorite gay watering holes. He's
a great guy. He's built like a refrigerator. German-Irish. Tough as
nails. Very sweet. Watching this show, I couldn't help but think that
guys like Sean and Jimmy made the world, and the force, safe for my buddy.

I'm happy that Jerry Bruckheimer produced this episode. I'm happy that
CBS chose to air it. As a black man, I know that TV can have a
significant effect on how the world views minorities. Show like
this—ones that portray gay people as real humans with real lives and
real problems—go a long way to normalizing our relationships with
society at large. Shows like this illustrate and inform the world
about our struggle.

Like Brokeback Mountain, Forever Blue has made me grateful for the
time and circumstances under which I was born. It has reinforced my
commitment to living my life openly and honestly. And it reminds me of
what a precious gift I have in my life partner.

Peace,
Milo

[twistedude]

Amen to that.

If anyone thinks I'm writing in anything but insulting Swahili, would they please tell David925?

B73's crossover story (BBM-FB); "Daydream Believer"
http://community.livejournal.com/brokebackslash/927273.html?#cutid1

A word about photcaps (I'm obviously using this thread as a photocap thread for FB).: They are often irreverent and funny about serious things. Does not mean poster has the sensitivity of a toilet seat. (Look under "I love the lighter side" under "photocaps: beware! Irreverent!" There, they complain of you post a SERIOUS one! For instance: Jack, looking in his rearview mirror" "Oh well..easy come; easy go" Really irreverent.


Coop, thinking: Jeez, Lieutenant, ...what are we talking about? Oh--Bruno's wife, I get it now. O.K. I'm up for that.

[mvansand76]

This story hit me pretty hard. There are a number of connections here.
Cold Case is shot in Philadelphia, where I live. I recognized several
of the exteriors where this episode was shot. I have worked for the
local casting agent for Cold Case back when they had the contract for
Hack. There are some familiar faces in the background of this series.

Also, I know a gay Philadelphia police lieutenant personally. From
time to time, he pops into one of my favorite gay watering holes. He's
a great guy. He's built like a refrigerator. German-Irish. Tough as
nails. Very sweet. Watching this show, I couldn't help but think that
guys like Sean and Jimmy made the world, and the force, safe for my buddy.

I'm happy that Jerry Bruckheimer produced this episode. I'm happy that
CBS chose to air it. As a black man, I know that TV can have a
significant effect on how the world views minorities. Show like
this—ones that portray gay people as real humans with real lives and
real problems—go a long way to normalizing our relationships with
society at large. Shows like this illustrate and inform the world
about our struggle.

Like Brokeback Mountain, Forever Blue has made me grateful for the
time and circumstances under which I was born. It has reinforced my
commitment to living my life openly and honestly. And it reminds me of
what a precious gift I have in my life partner.

Peace,
Milo

Hi Milo, thank you so much for sharing your personal story! BBM and FB are so much alike, aren't they, so are Coop & Jimmy and Jack & Ennis....

Welcome to Bettermost by the way!

[twistedude]

OK. Goodbye. My thread, too...

B73's crossover story (BBM-FB); "Daydream Believer"
http://community.livejournal.com/brokebackslash/927273.html?#cutid1

[mvansand76]

Are there any people out there who haven't seen this yet?

If so, please go watch it, you are really missing something! 

[twistedude]

hey, David and I have kissed and made up--or at least made up---so here I yam again.
SPOILER                                                                                                                                                                                                             
Fact: Both Sarge ande Bruno would have been ordered to take two weeks' sick leave, and would not be allowed to work on the case--Sarge as  Coop's father, Bruno as his partner (without any knowledge of their true relationship). It is possible that Bruno wouold be allowed to do desk work, but  everyone knew they were close friends, so, no.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Jimmy:...Or the CEO of Bechtel?                  [                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

[Companyofmen]

                   Lines of Communication

             http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3377092/1/

From the point of view of the rookie Jimmy takes out...the night he doesn't take Coop

    Oh--that's me, twistedude.

[milomorris]

I really enjoyed Lines of Communication. I hope there is more of this story to come.

The author's notes at the end of Lines of Communication mention the prayer "Praised be God, and not our strength for’t" (Psalm 115, v1)--which Macpherson paraphrases in his head when he hears that dispatch did not catch Coops final words--is from Shakespeare's Henry V. I cannot recall the Olivier Henry V which I saw in high school, but I do remember 1989 Kenneth Brannaugh's film version. The prayer was cleverly rendered in the form of a spirit-stirring chorus in Latin "Non Nobis Domine" composed by Patrick Doyle. The sound quality isn't great, but you can hear it along with moments from the film at:

.

[Companyofmen]

Oh, that's so beautiful--I don't care if it was written for the movie or not! (The hell with the 15th century, anyway!)

HEY---after 50 viewings (of Olivier's Henry V!)--I just realized: "Praised be God and not our strength for't" IS a paraphrase of "Non Nobis, domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam") Er, thanks...

People think I see the same movie over and over to catch the subtle nuances--I'm just figuring out whatr's going on!
\
Of coursde, it's Shakespeare's paraphrase, not Olivier's or Brannaugh's


Oh, it's just me, twistedude, again...

Jimmy: Did anyone ever tell you how great you look in black and white?.

[Companyofmen]

Sleep well, you Gorgeous Bastard...

[twistedude]

Sequel to Lines of Communication --tentatively Cannoli of the Spring--really?  Yeah, unless Ithink of a better title---in a couple days.

[Companyofmen]

                      Cannoli of the Spring (1975)

             http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3403328/1/
     

Sequl to Lines of Communication. It's 8 years later. Macpjherson is working in New York City, and living in the Village. More about Jimmy, Jim, and Coop is also not left out.

I think all three of my stories will be rated T, although I don't promise the last one will...but probably. (Gifts (2006)--couple of weeks.

[cathyinaz]

I love Cold Case but I seem to have missed this episode, any news when it will be rerun?

[Companyofmen]

Cathy: You can OWN it (it's been shown twice, so I doubt they'll show it again). Go to the very first post in this thread *(page 1), and the last thing in it is the download link.

The first time, it takes a while. Just follow directios.

If you have a "documents" file of your own, when the rectangle asking whether you want to open oir save to disk, choose "save to disk" (no disks involved), instead of "open," and you can watch it whenever (and as many times as) you want. But if you don't have your own storage space, chose "open," and I think it'll play thorugh twice.

I had to wait about half an hour--I don't know if there is more traffic orless now.

[Companyofmen]

(Twistedude--God, it's a hassle to change names!)

At 5 Monday morning, I was siting at my computer listening to "Daydream Believer" over and over (it;'s a site on Google, and the backgroUnd music is improved--nice banjo work--and it keeps playing until you tell it to stop), wondering why I had suddenly started hating my second story, and was it really bad.

And suddenly I started sobbing, about the brutal murder of this piece of celluloid, this wonderful young man who wasn't afraid of anything, even being afraid, was so honest, so loving, how could anyone thnink there were just oceans and oceans of  people like that that he could afford to blow one away?

But isn't it odd how the dead tend to stay dead? 

[Companyofmen]

                                     Gifts (2006)

                       
                  http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3407632/1/

The last of my--um..trilogy. Sequel to Lines of Communication (1968)and [/Cannoli ofthe Spring (1975)

The solving of the murderinspires a rash of gift-giving from several people, and other things as well.
                                   twistedude

[twistedude]

Homecoming


I have broke faith with my father,
And love a lad home from the war
Who does not regret it, or even think of it
Much.
So honest he is, and so unafraid,
Even of fear itself ,
Full of half-formed plans,  yet so sure
Of his love, that he dies for it,
Without ever knowing
Why.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Time for a bump up, have just been able to confirm this episode will be rebroadcast on CBS next SUnday, 8/19 at 9 pm eastern time.

Having only been able to see it in section on youtube, I am looking forward to seeing the real deal.

[mvansand76]

Time for a bump up, have just been able to confirm this episode will be rebroadcast on CBS next SUnday, 8/19 at 9 pm eastern time.

Having only been able to see it in section on youtube, I am looking forward to seeing the real deal.

Oh God! I love this episode, it's such an extraordinary episode! I have it on my PC and I haven't watched it for months! Thanks for bumping....





SPOILERS

If you've seen this on Youtube...Don't you love the scene in the church between Coop and his father? That scene really broke my heart, he is so fragile and yet so strong in that scene, how he stands up for himself and Jimmy.... wonderful stuff...

[David In Indy]

Time for a bump up, have just been able to confirm this episode will be rebroadcast on CBS next SUnday, 8/19 at 9 pm eastern time.

Having only been able to see it in section on youtube, I am looking forward to seeing the real deal.

God I hope I remember to watch it! I'm scared I will forget. 

Too many things going on around here right now. Could someone remind me next Sunday? I sure would appreciate it! 

[David In Indy]

Just a reminder folks!!

CBS is rebroadcasting this Cold Case episode TONIGHT, August 19, at 9:00 pm ET.

So for those of us who have not seen this episode, here is a chance to watch it! 

[adrian]

Thanks fella's for the reminder!   I have not yet seen this episode, and will definately be recording it.

Adrian

[Jeff Wrangler]

Just a reminder folks!!

CBS is rebroadcasting this Cold Case episode TONIGHT, August 19, at 9:00 pm ET.

So for those of us who have not seen this episode, here is a chance to watch it! 

I didn't see it the first time around, and I saw only about the second half hour tonight.

Oh, dear. ... Now I feel that I should want to see the whole episode some day, but even that half hour of it ... hurt. A lot. 

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I didn't see it the first time around, and I saw only about the second half hour tonight.

Oh, dear. ... Now I feel that I should want to see the whole episode some day, but even that half hour of it ... hurt. A lot. 

I have a feeling someone recorded it. We shall wait, and they shall surface! 

[David In Indy]

I have a feeling someone recorded it. We shall wait, and they shall surface! 

*David raises his hand*

I recorded it. But I'm on dial-up, I don't know how much good it will do! 

Yes Jeff, it hurt A LOT!!   

[David In Indy]

If anyone would like a DVD of the show, pm me your address, and I will mail you one gratis. But I probably won't be able to start sending them until the beginning of next week. I will work on the DVDs over next weekend. 

[BBM-Cat]

It seems some kind soul uploaded the file awhile back, or at least provided a link to do so - I may have it on my computer still

[David In Indy]

*******************Possible Spoilers**********************************


Did anyone else notice all the paralells between this show and Brokeback Mountain? Jimmy reminded me so much of Ennis. He even said "I ain't queer"! He kept pushing Coop away just like Ennis did to Jack, and he ultimately ran away from the relationship just like Ennis. And Coop was a bit like Jack, wasn't he? He kept encouraging Jimmy just like Jack did, and Coop ended up getting killed... just like Jack. And what about the wife looking out the window at the boys, and catching them kissing? This reminded me of the scene where Alma noticed Jack and Ennis kissing in the reunion scene.

[BBM-Cat]

Most definitely David, and just as emotionally powerful as BBM on a shorter scale.

[David In Indy]

Most definitely David, and just as emotionally powerful as BBM on a shorter scale.

That's exactly how it hit me too! And part of the show took place in the 1960's... just like part of BBM did. 

They have probably already discussed all these things on this thread, but I just saw the show for the first time tonight. So I apologize to everyone if I am repeating things in here. 

[adrian]

Time for a bump up, have just been able to confirm this episode will be rebroadcast on CBS next SUnday, 8/19 at 9 pm eastern time.

Having only been able to see it in section on youtube, I am looking forward to seeing the real deal.

A thousand THANKS for this, Truman, I would've missed it again if not for you.  This was the first time for me.

I'm sure it's already been discussed in depth on all forums...and my feelings are no exception.  It was beautiful.

[David In Indy]

Yes, thank you Truman. I would have missed it too had you not noticed this and said something. I've heard so much about it and I've been waiting months to see it! 

[adrian]

They have probably already discussed all these things on this thread, but I just saw the show for the first time tonight.

Me too, David, and thanks for the reminder.  I wish I saw it when it was first shown in December.  This

was one long 8 month wait....but worth it.

 

[ifyoucantfixit]

      I watched this story tonight on CBS.  It was heartbreaking..  The idea that people were
willing to go to those extents in those days to hide a son or fellow officers homosexual orientation.
Gives a lot of creedance to Ennis' fears.....Well acted, and I really liked the way they filmed it
back and forth, in color, and black and white....

[Jeff Wrangler]

Possible Spoilers

*******************Possible Spoilers**********************************


Did anyone else notice all the paralells between this show and Brokeback Mountain? Jimmy reminded me so much of Ennis. He even said "I ain't queer"! He kept pushing Coop away just like Ennis did to Jack, and he ultimately ran away from the relationship just like Ennis. And Coop was a bit like Jack, wasn't he? He kept encouraging Jimmy just like Jack did, and Coop ended up getting killed... just like Jack. And what about the wife looking out the window at the boys, and catching them kissing? This reminded me of the scene where Alma noticed Jack and Ennis kissing in the reunion scene.

The line that kept going through me was, "We're the lucky ones," or something like that.

Just like Ennis and Jack. ... 

[Kelda]

the full episode seems to be up on youtube - the first part is below. wont post all 8 parts as it'll slow the thread down, but I'm going to take some time out to watch it at some point this week.

[youtube=425,350]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AGlWzUs_570[/youtube]

[jstephens9]

I am so glad I found this thread on "Forever Blue." I saw it the first time it aired and I was practically in shock as the story unfolded. It was very much like Brokeback and the meaning so very similar. I fell in love with this episode and I downloaded it from somewhere. I'm not sure where. Last Sunday I couldn't believe it when it came on again. I wish I would have known so that I could have recorded it. Like many of you have said the show brought on those "Brokeback" tears. That last scene was something else. Did anyone else notice how certain things were in color when things would go back to 1968? This was similar to a movie which I cannot remember the name of right now. Did you also notice that in the last scene when they touched everything was suddenly in color? I'm trying not to give much away here so that I don't ruin it for anyone who has not seen it yet. Cold Case tends to be a good show anyway, but this episode was incredible. I could handle a whole series or movie based on Jimmy and Coop. I really would like to see this two characters expanded on.

[ifyoucantfixit]

       I was so glad to get to see it this time around.  I just caught the very end last time.

[mvansand76]

I am so happy to see that more people saw this episode, it's so special, it always makes me cry!

David, I am so happy you didn't forget to watch it! The parallels were stunning, weren't they?

[Kelda]

I have also just watched this in section on you tube on my sisters computer as I ma babysitting. It was abit jumpy, so i don't think I got the full effect.

So, to clarify - did Eillen confront coop not long after she saw them - as I said it was jumpy ao couldn't make out if she had a baby bump or not. Or was that after he christening - hence why the other guy walked into them - also was that just before he found out the truth through sareg who heard through the other cop who was hiding in his car?

[mvansand76]

I have also just watched this in section on you tube on my sisters computer as I ma babysitting. It was abit jumpy, so i don't think I got the full effect.

So, to clarify - did Eillen confront coop not long after she saw them - as I said it was jumpy ao couldn't make out if she had a baby bump or not. Or was that after he christening - hence why the other guy walked into them - also was that just before he found out the truth through sareg who heard through the other cop who was hiding in his car?

The part where E confronted Coop and where the colleague thought Coop was having an affair with L, that was right after the Christening. The affair between Coop and Jimmy had been going on for a while then, because she caught them kissing in the backyard when she was pregnant. The christening was after the guy overheard C and J talking standing next to the police cars, because after that the same guy went to Coops father to tell him what was going on and then Coops father confronted him in the church after the Christening (God, I love that scene, it's so intense). It took me a while to completely understand it... LOL!

[David In Indy]

Forever Blue DVD Update...




For all of you who asked for a copy of the show, I just would like all of you to know I have NOT forgotten about you!

As it turns out, my computer will not allow me to copy the DVD to my hard drive. I think this is because my DVD recorder creates "chapters" and each chapter is a separate computer file. And I am not computer literate enough to know what associated files should be copied to each individual DVD (DLL's etc). I don't want to mail all these DVDs out and then find out they would not play on some of your DVD players.

So, I am going to copy my DVD to a blank VHS tape and then copy the tape to blank DVDs. My DVD recorder has both a DVD recorder and a VCR on it, so this will not be a problem. But after spending much of the weekend trying to figure out why my computer was arguing with me so much, I think this is probably the best way to do it, don't you?

I will get a very high quality blank VHS tape tonight or tomorrow, and then begin dubbing the show to DVDs. Just as quick as I get them all dubbed, I will send them to you all! Hopefully I will have them finished within the next couple of days! 

I have all of your addresses saved in a word processor, and I will get the DVDs in the mail to all of you just as quick as I can! 

[Jeff Wrangler]

David, you are so sweet to go to all this trouble!       

[mvansand76]

Forever Blue DVD Update...




For all of you who asked for a copy of the show, I just would like all of you to know I have NOT forgotten about you!

As it turns out, my computer will not allow me to copy the DVD to my hard drive. I think this is because my DVD recorder creates "chapters" and each chapter is a separate computer file. And I am not computer literate enough to know what associated files should be copied to each individual DVD (DLL's etc). I don't want to mail all these DVDs out and then find out they would not play on some of your DVD players.

So, I am going to copy my DVD to a blank VHS tape and then copy the tape to blank DVDs. My DVD recorder has both a DVD recorder and a VCR on it, so this will not be a problem. But after spending much of the weekend trying to figure out why my computer was arguing with me so much, I think this is probably the best way to do it, don't you?

I will get a very high quality blank VHS tape tonight or tomorrow, and then begin dubbing the show to DVDs. Just as quick as I get them all dubbed, I will send them to you all! Hopefully I will have them finished within the next couple of days! 

I have all of your addresses saved in a word processor, and I will get the DVDs in the mail to all of you just as quick as I can! 

It's so sweet of you to do that for the people who haven't seen it yet! 

[Penthesilea]

Ok, you got me all curious. I've downloaded the file from the link posted on the first page of this thread.

But it doesn't play correctly  The sound track is not simultaneous to the pictures. I see a woman talk, but hear a male voice; I hear handcuffs click and seven seconds later can I see the scene belonging to it 

Additionally I see everything in slow motion. I think that's the course of sound and pictures running not simultaneously: the pics run too slow and therefore the gap between pics and sound widens more and more.

It's so frustrating  .

Had anyone else the same problem? Or any suggestions what I could do about it?

[Kelda]

I didn't download it about did watch it on you tube, it was also very slightly out of pynch but i think that was becasue i was watching it on my sisters old, slow PC.
MAybe try that?

[Penthesilea]

I didn't download it about did watch it on you tube, it was also very slightly out of pynch but i think that was becasue i was watching it on my sisters old, slow PC.
MAybe try that?

I could live with slightly out of synch. Is it somewhere on youtube in one piece, or only the chopped into eight pieces version?

[Kelda]

no its just the chopped into 8 version - i think the longest you tube clips can be area certain size or 10mins so hence the chopping.

[jstephens9]

David, as others have said, YOU ARE GREAT FOR DOING THIS FOR SO MANY OF US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know we will all enjoy the DVD tremendously. It is probably the best show I can think of seeing on TV.

To those of you watching it on You Tube, isn't it kind of grainy? I like You Tube since you can see so many things you would not be able to otherwise, but I have found the quality to be pretty bad.

[David In Indy]

No problem!! 

It's a good show and I'm glad to do it!

For those of you who requested a Forever Blue DVD, I should have all the DVDs finished by tonight, and I will probably drop them off at the post office on Wednesday afternoon. I'm not sure how long it will take to reach your location from Indianapolis, but hopefully you all will have them in time for the weekend. 

I'll send you all a comfirmation pm once they are in the mail, so you will know they are on their way to you.

[David In Indy]

I am so happy to see that more people saw this episode, it's so special, it always makes me cry!

David, I am so happy you didn't forget to watch it! The parallels were stunning, weren't they?

Sorry about that Melissa. I just now saw your message.


******************POSSIBLE SPOILERS!*****************************************

(If you haven't seen this episode yet, don't read any of the following!!  )

















There are very many parallels between this show and Brokeback Mountain. I couldn't believe it. There is definately a Jack and Ennis in this story. But I can't figure something out. And I don't know how many times I've watched it now, but why do certain things appear in color during the black and white (1968) scenes? The police car appears in red, the brick of drugs appear in yellow, something on the desk appears in red, etc. Why is that? What is this supposed to tell us? I can't figure it out and neither can Alex.

It has a beautiful ending doesn't it? I cry every time I watch it! 

[David In Indy]

I could live with slightly out of synch. Is it somewhere on youtube in one piece, or only the chopped into eight pieces version?

I don't know Chrissi! I'd gladly send you a DVD of the show, but I don't think my DVDs would work on your machine. Unless you have one of those switchable DVD players. If you do, let me know and I'll send you a DVD! 

But, you WILL be getting a postcard from me very soon! 

[Penthesilea]

I don't know Chrissi! I'd gladly send you a DVD of the show, but I don't think my DVDs would work on your machine. Unless you have one of those switchable DVD players. If you do, let me know and I'll send you a DVD! 

Aww, that's sweet of you to offer, thank you. But you're right: it wouldn't play on my DVD player.

But, you WILL be getting a postcard from me very soon! 

Yee-Haw! 

[mvansand76]

I don't know Chrissi! I'd gladly send you a DVD of the show, but I don't think my DVDs would work on your machine. Unless you have one of those switchable DVD players. If you do, let me know and I'll send you a DVD! 

But, you WILL be getting a postcard from me very soon! 

ARE YOU STILL ONLINE SWEETIE?

[David In Indy]

ARE YOU STILL ONLINE SWEETIE?

Nope! I'm not online!

Go back to bed, Melissa. You're seeing things. 

 

Yeah. I'm still here. Long story. I'll tell you about it tomorrow! It's all good! 

[mvansand76]

Nope! I'm not online!

Go back to bed, Melissa. You're seeing things. 

 

Yeah. I'm still here. Long story. I'll tell you about it tomorrow! It's all good! 

I can't go back to bed, it's morning here! It's 11! 

[David In Indy]

I can't go back to bed, it's morning here! It's 11! 

It is??

Well then! If it's morning there, that means it will be morning here soon!

We're going to bed! Nighty night! 

[mvansand76]

It is??

Well then! If it's morning there, that means it will be morning here soon!

We're going to bed! Nighty night! 

 

[jstephens9]

It looks like nobody has been posting on this thread so I will bring it back to life. I got my DVD from David and Forever Blue is as good as it was the first time I saw it. Anyway, I just happened to turn on CMT and the movie is on that makes similar use of color. It is called Pleasantville. I have no idea if anything in it with the color has anything to do with Forever Blue, but it is interesting what Wikipedia says about the use of black and white and color in Pleasantville. "Slowly, certain objects begin turning Multicolor, including flowers and the faces of people who have experienced bursts of passion or change." I can definitely see a relationship as things also change to color as Coop and Jimmy come to certain realizations as well. I don't know if everyone has seen Forever Blue yet so I don't want to go into much detail. However, for those of you who did, remember what happens in the very last scene?

And for those who haven't seen Forever Blue, see it, you will not be disappointed.

Jack

[mvansand76]

It looks like nobody has been posting on this thread so I will bring it back to life. I got my DVD from David and Forever Blue is as good as it was the first time I saw it. Anyway, I just happened to turn on CMT and the movie is on that makes similar use of color. It is called Pleasantville. I have no idea if anything in it with the color has anything to do with Forever Blue, but it is interesting what Wikipedia says about the use of black and white and color in Pleasantville. "Slowly, certain objects begin turning Multicolor, including flowers and the faces of people who have experienced bursts of passion or change." I can definitely see a relationship as things also change to color as Coop and Jimmy come to certain realizations as well. I don't know if everyone has seen Forever Blue yet so I don't want to go into much detail. However, for those of you who did, remember what happens in the very last scene?

And for those who haven't seen Forever Blue, see it, you will not be disappointed.

Jack

Yeah, that was such a beautiful ending to such a sad story! I loved how they finally turned into full colour at the moment Jimmy remembered Coop for the first time the way they really were, lovers and best friends at the same time, and acknowledged that.

 

[jstephens9]

Yeah, that scene always gets to me. It's kind of like you wish it could somehow last forever. And I guess in a way it does. Maybe that acceptance by Jimmy finally comes full circle and that is what the full color represents. The passion and the change of accepting. Too bad it was too late. Too bad it didn't happen when Coop told Jimmy, "we are the lucky ones." Guess Jimmy knew in that last scene that they truly were the lucky ones.

[forsythia12]

just incase anyone is interested, there is a cold case episode called "best friends" in season 2.  it's about two lesbians in the 1930's, and one of them is in denial about her sexuality, even up into her old age.
not sure if it's as good as "forever blue', but it's worth seeing for anyone who likes the show....or the story line.

 

forsythia

[Jeff Wrangler]

Anybody see last night's episode (Sun., Jan. 25)?

Spoiler Alert!

Back in 1964, one of the characters got caught by his son when he was having sex with another guy in the bushes of a local park.

There was also a very specific Philadelphia reference in the episode, too, which is nice, considering that the show is set here in Philadelphia. At any rate, at one point Det. Rush made reference to the suspect getting tickets for loitering in Judy Garland Park.

"Judy Garland Park" is actually a local nickname for an area of what is officially known as Schylkill River Park. The park is located along the Schuylkill River at the western edge of Center City. The area nicknamed "Judy Garland Park" is historically a well-known and notorious gay cruising area--especially late at night, after the bars close. It was also a place to sunbathe in the summer and check out guys in Speedos.    The city has done some redevelopment of the area in the past ten years, and there is now a dog run on the knoll where I picked up one of my hottest tricks one summer Sunday afternoon years ago. He turned out to be some bigshot in the city tourism bureau; I learned who he was when he showed up on the society gossip page of the newspaper for marrying a woman and moving to California. Go figure. ... 

[retropian]

Anybody see last night's episode (Sun., Jan. 25)?

Spoiler Alert!

Back in 1964, one of the characters got caught by his son when he was having sex with another guy in the bushes of a local park.

There was also a very specific Philadelphia reference in the episode, too, which is nice, considering that the show is set here in Philadelphia. At any rate, at one point Det. Rush made reference to the suspect getting tickets for loitering in Judy Garland Park.

"Judy Garland Park" is actually a local nickname for an area of what is officially known as Schylkill River Park. The park is located along the Schuylkill River at the western edge of Center City. The area nicknamed "Judy Garland Park" is historically a well-known and notorious gay cruising area--especially late at night, after the bars close. It was also a place to sunbathe in the summer and check out guys in Speedos.    The city has done some redevelopment of the area in the past ten years, and there is now a dog run on the knoll where I picked up one of my hottest tricks one summer Sunday afternoon years ago. He turned out to be some bigshot in the city tourism bureau; I learned who he was when he showed up on the society gossip page of the newspaper for marrying a woman and moving to California. Go figure. ... 

I caught the last 1/2 hr last night. I was kind of pissed off that a gay man was portrayed as an evil, abusive and warped murderer. I didn't detect any message or comment that his behavior might be due, at least in part, by the pressures of trying to pass as straight. Nothing about how societal Homophobia destroys individuals and families. It seems gay people are usually portrayed as evil or effeminate or victims or super-sensitive or neurotic or clowns or closeted, etc.. or some combo of those. Seldom do we see well adjusted and happy (I guess there would be no drama in that).

[Jeff Wrangler]

I caught the last 1/2 hr last night. I was kind of pissed off that a gay man was portrayed as an evil, abusive and warped murderer. I didn't detect any message or comment that his behavior might be due, at least in part, by the pressures of trying to pass as straight. Nothing about how societal Homophobia destroys individuals and families. It seems gay people are usually portrayed as evil or effeminate or victims or super-sensitive or neurotic or clowns or closeted, etc.. or some combo of those. Seldom do we see well adjusted and happy (I guess there would be no drama in that).

Actually, I'm sure I caught something along those lines when Rush and Scotty were interviewing him, I think in the same sequence where I caught the reference to Judy Garland Park, but the dialog went by pretty quickly in that sequence. As for the rest, this wasn't a "gay story" in the sense that "Forever Blue" was. This story was about how the door-to-door salesman, who engaged in so many behaviors that looked suspicious, was actually trying to help people and got killed for it.

[jstephens9]

I saw this episode too and there for awhile it seemed they were tyring to suggest that the door to door salesman might be gay, but then that didn't happen. Cold Case has had several episodes dealing with gay characters. There was one several seasons ago where a gay guy was going to bathhouses and spreading AIDS. I can't remember much of what happened on it. By the way, the door to door salesman used to play Chris on "As The World Turns" and I have seen him on several shows lately. Of course, "As The World Turns" has been doing an incredible job of showing gay people in a positive light. I think it will be hard for them to make another "Cold Case" like "Forever Blue" since that show was so incredible and fantastic. I wish there could have been a whole movie based on it.

[retropian]

I saw this episode too and there for awhile it seemed they were tyring to suggest that the door to door salesman might be gay, but then that didn't happen. Cold Case has had several episodes dealing with gay characters. There was one several seasons ago where a gay guy was going to bathhouses and spreading AIDS. I can't remember much of what happened on it. By the way, the door to door salesman used to play Chris on "As The World Turns" and I have seen him on several shows lately. Of course, "As The World Turns" has been doing an incredible job of showing gay people in a positive light. I think it will be hard for them to make another "Cold Case" like "Forever Blue" since that show was so incredible and fantastic. I wish there could have been a whole movie based on it.

Yeah, I'd watch a feature film of 'Forever Blue" as well. The writers of Cold Case where inspired by BBM, I wish there where some high profile projects to bring well known high quality Gay themed novels to the big screen. "Milk" comes to mind, but that was a true story. I'd like to see a happy ending.

[KristinDaBomb]

I saw this when it first aired, I'm a huge Cold Case fan. Lovely episode.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I saw this episode too and there for awhile it seemed they were tyring to suggest that the door to door salesman might be gay, but then that didn't happen. Cold Case has had several episodes dealing with gay characters. There was one several seasons ago where a gay guy was going to bathhouses and spreading AIDS. I can't remember much of what happened on it. By the way, the door to door salesman used to play Chris on "As The World Turns" and I have seen him on several shows lately. Of course, "As The World Turns" has been doing an incredible job of showing gay people in a positive light. I think it will be hard for them to make another "Cold Case" like "Forever Blue" since that show was so incredible and fantastic. I wish there could have been a whole movie based on it.

Of course, by now I've already forgotten the actor's name,  but the day after the show aired I looked him up on IMDb. He was quite handsome with his blue eyes and his strong jawline. 

[sel]

Finally almost two weeks ago it was my turn to watch Forever blue  (Italian TV, RAI 2).
I simply fell in love with it.   The episode exceeded my expectations, which due to the buzz surrounding it had become very high.  It was definitely inspired by BbM. I am hooked! I hope to be able to see the whole episode again, as well as more of the lead actors. 

Here's a pic taken on the set:

http://www.creativealleyproductions.com/photos/christian_keiber_cold_case_cbs.jpg

And a very good  interview by AfterElton.com with Shane Johnson ("Coop") about Forever Blue:

http://www.afterelton.com/archive/elton/people/2006/12/shanejohnson.html

[LauraGigs]

I just read that interview.  Very cool.  Thanks Sel!   

[Kelda]

yeah, thanks Sel!

[sel]

I know to most of you this is old stuff.  Since watching this episode of Cold Case  on TV for the first time I have watched a few clips on Youtube, and felt compelled to come back to this thread. To me Forever Blue is a  masterpiece,  a small one, nonetheless a masterpiece in its own rights.

[jstephens9]

I know to most of you this is old stuff.  Since watching this episode of Cold Case  on TV for the first time I have watched a few clips on Youtube, and felt compelled to come back to this thread. To me Forever Blue is a  masterpiece,  a small one, nonetheless a masterpiece in its own rights.

It will never be old stuff to me. This was one spectacular show....as you say a masterpiece!!! Thanks for the picture and the interview. I have never seen that picture before. I would have really liked to have seen this transformed into a movie which truly could have been done. Who knows maybe one day it will be. Being gay as a policeman certainly would not have been easy in the 60s and it would not be easy now either. The same goes for firemen. It seems that many of these groups are forgotten since they are so dissimilar from the stereotypical idea that a gay person is an interior decorator, etc. The same of course goes for being a cowboy as was shown in Brokeback. The world really needs to realize all the many places and professions gay people do exist and maybe it would be easier for the general population to accept in the long run.

[injest]

It will never be old stuff to me. This was one spectacular show....as you say a masterpiece!!! Thanks for the picture and the interview. I have never seen that picture before. I would have really liked to have seen this transformed into a movie which truly could have been done. Who knows maybe one day it will be. Being gay as a policeman certainly would not have been easy in the 60s and it would not be easy now either. The same goes for firemen. It seems that many of these groups are forgotten since they are so dissimilar from the stereotypical idea that a gay person is an interior decorator, etc. The same of course goes for being a cowboy as was shown in Brokeback. The world really needs to realize all the many places and professions gay people do exist and maybe it would be easier for the general population to accept in the long run.

you are right..

instead we get 'Bruno'...

[milomorris]

It seems that many of these groups are forgotten since they are so dissimilar from the stereotypical idea that a gay person is an interior decorator, etc. The same of course goes for being a cowboy as was shown in Brokeback. The world really needs to realize all the many places and professions gay people do exist and maybe it would be easier for the general population to accept in the long run.

Correct. Nobody thinks about policemen and firemen when the word "gay" comes up in conversation.

I think the biggest reason for the lack of sexual minorities in certain traditionally-male professions is the fear of homophobia. This is similar to the way that certain types of blacks avoid careers and companies that appear to be lily-white for fear of racism. If some of these gay men were as "proud" as they claim, they wouldn't avoid these careers. The leadership and rank-and-file of the orthodox gay community would be doing young sexual minorities a service by encouraging them to a more diverse range of career choices.

Of course it would help if more attention was placed on ending workplace discrimination for sexual minorities. But the Gay Party has always had a skewed set of priorities IMO.

[injest]

Correct. Nobody thinks about policemen and firemen when the word "gay" comes up in conversation.

I think the biggest reason for the lack of sexual minorities in certain traditionally-male professions is the fear of homophobia. This is similar to the way that certain types of blacks avoid careers and companies that appear to be lily-white for fear of racism. If some of these gay men were as "proud" as they claim, they wouldn't avoid these careers. The leadership and rank-and-file of the orthodox gay community would be doing young sexual minorities a service by encouraging them to a more diverse range of career choices.

Of course it would help if more attention was placed on ending workplace discrimination for sexual minorities. But the Gay Party has always had a skewed set of priorities IMO.

huh..

this just recently came up for me. We have an opening in the company I work for...making good money, all days, good work environment...I have a friend that works in retail...shaky job market, cruel boss, late nights, weekends, heavy responsibility...

he wouldn't even come apply because we dont' currently have any other Black men working there...

[sel]

Some of you may have heard of him, Fabrizio Caiazza, the openly gay Italian cop. I really admire this guy.
He was on the Italian news last year.

From www.Guardian.co.uk  September last year:
Caiazza, 33, entered the 'Sex Factor' contest organised by UK website Gaydarnation.com earlier this year, donning his police uniform to pose for online shots in the Mr Uniform category. Beating 46,000 contenders from 162 countries, he scooped a modelling contract and a €15,000 top prize, only to be sent before a disciplinary board back in Milan for wearing his uniform without permission outside office hours.

Here's an interview:

http://http://www.rainbownetwork.com/UserPortal/Article/Detail.aspx?ID=21458&sid=74[url]

[milomorris]

only to be sent before a disciplinary board back in Milan for wearing his uniform without permission outside office hours.

http://http://www.rainbownetwork.com/UserPortal/Article/Detail.aspx?ID=21458&sid=74[url]

Good effort, but slightly off target. If he wants to change Italian's minds about sexual minorities, appearing on the cover of a gay magazine isn't going to have much effect because most of the readers are gay--preaching to the choir. What would have a greater impact is to appear on a mainstream magazine cover.

And why oh why didn't clear the uniform usage beforehand??

[sel]

Wearing his uniform  for the contest shots I agree wasn't the right thing to do, that applies to anyone. IMO for him at the  time that didn't seem a problem as he didn't think he'd win.
After the event was reported on the news he has appeared as a guest on important TV programmes to support the gay cause. His aim is to form an Italian gay police support group.

[jstephens9]

Good effort, but slightly off target. If he wants to change Italian's minds about sexual minorities, appearing on the cover of a gay magazine isn't going to have much effect because most of the readers are gay--preaching to the choir. What would have a greater impact is to appear on a mainstream magazine cover.

And why oh why didn't clear the uniform usage beforehand??

Good point Milo! The impact would have been greater on a mainstream magazine cover. I think in ways it would be hard to be a cop and gay on both fronts. The police force does not seem to be the best place to be gay and I will add that about the fire department as well. However, as I discovered this past summer, there are many gay people who apparently have a big problem with the police. This must stem from many, many years ago with things like the riots in San Francisco and New York. I know I was confronted in the Castro area because I was wearing a Dallas police department tshirt. This man was very angry that I would wear something like that in Castro and he let me know that things like that were not tolerated there. He kept following me around confronting me about it until I finally told him to go on and leave me alone. So the Castro area is my least favorite part of San Francisco. I was wearing the shirt because I have a friend who is on the DPD. I was not making a statement about anything. This past summer I mentioned this instance to someone and I created quite an argument concerning how horrible the police are and how they are always out to hurt and discriminate against gay people. Obviously this is a generalization similar to the one about all gay people act like the stereotype. However, there was no changing this person's mind about that.

[milomorris]

However, as I discovered this past summer, there are many gay people who apparently have a big problem with the police. This must stem from many, many years ago with things like the riots in San Francisco and New York. I know I was confronted in the Castro area because I was wearing a Dallas police department tshirt. This man was very angry that I would wear something like that in Castro and he let me know that things like that were not tolerated there. He kept following me around confronting me about it until I finally told him to go on and leave me alone. So the Castro area is my least favorite part of San Francisco. I was wearing the shirt because I have a friend who is on the DPD. I was not making a statement about anything. This past summer I mentioned this instance to someone and I created quite an argument concerning how horrible the police are and how they are always out to hurt and discriminate against gay people.

I know what you mean. I hear that same bullshit from certain black people. Not surprisingly, they are the blacks that are in/of the ghetto. And the Castro is a huge gay ghetto. The bottom line is that if you're nose is clean, you have nothing to fear from police.

[jstephens9]

I know what you mean. I hear that same bullshit from certain black people. Not surprisingly, they are the blacks that are in/of the ghetto. And the Castro is a huge gay ghetto. The bottom line is that if you're nose is clean, you have nothing to fear from police.

Exactly Milo. Good point.