Author Topic: Another clothing question......  (Read 12106 times)

Offline Cameron

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Another clothing question......
« on: January 17, 2007, 05:50:47 pm »
Hi you all,

With all the coat and hat discussion, there is another thing that I have noticed, actually on my 2nd or third viewing and I haven't seen anything on it.

On BBM, I have noticed that there are two scenes in which Ennis is wearing a yellow rain jacket.  The first time is when he was gathering the cans and stuff and Jack said 'no more beans' and the second time is when they were down from the mountain and leaning against the fence watching the sheep and Aquirre said 'ranch hands are never any good'.  That was especially odd because he wasn't wearing it down the mountain and he wasn't wearing it at the truck.  Also the collar of the tan coat is visible under the raincoat.

Where did Ennis get the rain jacket from, it wasn't in the bag, and I don't think it came with the supplies, so could it have been Jacks?  It just is odd that he was wearing it in only those two scenes.  I am wondering if it was supposed to signifiy something but what. I have been wondering where he got it from.  (yeah I guess the costume person, but I don't want to think about them>)

Oh yeah,  also how did they get the little table to the campsite,  was it there already?

Just wondering.....



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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 06:19:06 pm »
Hi there,

The scene at the camp was shot on a rainy day (looks like) so, most likely, it was just handed to Ennis by one of the crew so Ennis just held on to it. 

What I would like to know is how did the old GMC pick-up driven by Jack when he first barely made it to Aguirre trailer at the beginning of the movie end up with Ennis?  Remember the second meeting after 4 years! 

Pierre -  ???


Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 06:34:37 pm »
Hi,

Is it the same truck or did E. just get one like J's truck?


The scene at the camp was shot on a rainy day (looks like) so, most likely, it was just handed to Ennis by one of the crew so Ennis just held on to it. 



You could be right, the rain coat might have been just handed to Heath cause it was raining, and they left it in those scenes,

And I was thinking (hoping) there was a deep significance to it.....




Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2007, 06:44:38 pm »
The GMC trucks that Enns and Jack had are different. Jacks was a 1949 to 1952 in black and Ennis's was a 1955 to 1957 in mostly blue. Both except fot the engines and grilles, etc, were the same as corresponding Chevrolet truck but much less common.


Mark
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2007, 07:23:34 pm »
 :laugh:

That's me, laughing at myself because of all the times I've watched this film--I quit counting after the first time I watched the DVD--and it never registered on me that we see Ennis wearing that yellow slicker on the mountain. I only noticed it at the sheep pens after they brought 'em down.

I guess it must have been Jack's because it surely wasn't in that paper bag Ennis was carrying. As small as that bag was rolled up, I have to wonder if there was anything in it except his other shirt--and maybe a pair of socks. I mean, did that poor kid even own a second pair of jeans?  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2007, 07:24:16 pm »
I thought the rain slicker would be part of the gear supplied by Aguirre's company.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2007, 07:30:48 pm »
Yeah that is what made me wonder about it.  I  mean the rain jacket could not have been it the bag, it would have been too big, and I don't think Aguirre provided it because I can't see him as being so thoughtful to supply it to the boys.

I also wonder about the bag, was there even a toothbrush in it?  I do tend to think that Ennis only had one pair of jeans though.



Offline serious crayons

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2007, 07:48:27 pm »
I do tend to think that Ennis only had one pair of jeans though.

But then he, too, would have had to do the laundry in the river naked and then walk around naked for hours, waiting for the jeans to dry ...

 :o   :-*   ;D  ;)

I don't think we're supposed to pay much attention to that kind of detail. Too distracting!  ::)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2007, 07:57:29 pm »
But then he, too, would have had to do the laundry in the river naked and then walk around naked for hours, waiting for the jeans to dry ...

 :o   :-*   ;D  ;)

I don't think we're supposed to pay much attention to that kind of detail. Too distracting!  ::)

I wonder why it never really sank in for me until this past Sunday night's viewing, but Ennis keeps his hat on to take a bath. I mean, the guy is stark naked, but he keeps his hat on!  :laugh:

(Actually, I think I do know why it didn't sink in. In that sequence I've always concentrated on watching for Jack's little jaw twitch.  ;D)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2007, 08:00:55 pm »

(Actually, I think I do know why it didn't sink in. In that sequence I've always concentrated on watching for Jack's little jaw twitch.  ;D)
And Jack keeps his boots on.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2007, 08:02:40 pm »
HI,

But then he, too, would have had to do the laundry in the river naked and then walk around naked for hours, waiting for the jeans to dry ...

 :o   :-*   ;D  ;)

Hi,

Yeah I have been wondering about that too.....since Jack had to  wait till his clothes to drued then how long was it till  he went up the mountain to meet Ennis when he was all dressed in dry clothes again.  I can't imagine that the clothes dried too fast on the chilly, cloudy mountain, so maybe it had to be a few days later?

I have been wondering and trying to figure all these things out too.. ;D

And I wondered about the hat too, I noticed that right away.  Why does he keep it on? ;D



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2007, 08:12:45 pm »
Okay, let me try to tackle these things... Ennis only had one pair of jeans. That's why he so carefully rolls up his jeans before stepping into the stream to clean the coffeepot. Ennis took off his boots, because he likes having bare feet (and putting them up on the coffee table while watching TV). Ennis washes with his hat on because he wants to keep his hat clean and there is no hat hanger on the mountain. Jack washes with his boots on because he has sensitive feet. Also, his boots have holes in them so they dry fast. Jack washes naked not because he has no other clothes but because he likes being naked. Jack is washing all the extra shirts because he used them to clean up the bedroll after that first nite in the tent. Whew! Any other questions?

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Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2007, 08:29:25 pm »
Okay, let me try to tackle these things... Ennis only had one pair of jeans. That's why he so carefully rolls up his jeans before stepping into the stream to clean the coffeepot. Ennis took off his boots, because he likes having bare feet (and putting them up on the coffee table while watching TV). Ennis washes with his hat on because he wants to keep his hat clean and there is no hat hanger on the mountain. Jack washes with his boots on because he has sensitive feet. Also, his boots have holes in them so they dry fast. Jack washes naked not because he has no other clothes but because he likes being naked. Jack is washing all the extra shirts because he used them to clean up the bedroll after that first nite in the tent. Whew! Any other questions? 

Wow  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  But how about the rain jacket?  ;D

P.S.  I thought BBM was supposed to be so sad, I am laughing harder than I have in a year.!!

« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 08:33:15 pm by marlb42 »



Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2007, 08:35:16 pm »

I don't think we're supposed to pay much attention to that kind of detail. Too distracting!  ::)


Katherine, I don't know what to say....we're not..supposed..to notice..that kind of..detail?

THUD!

:)

Offline Katie77

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2007, 10:03:19 pm »
Wow  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  But how about the rain jacket?  ;D

P.S.  I thought BBM was supposed to be so sad, I am laughing harder than I have in a year.!!



Yes, I must admit, I'm having a laugh at this thread too, not that it all doesnt make sense, and the questions are all valid, but it is funny reading all the posts..

Must admit, I wondered what Ennis had in the bag, and in the beginning it looked like a paper bag to me, but when he was looking for his shirt, when they came down from the mountain, it looked like a material one.

Something else, that always catches my eye....in one of the campfire scenes, Jack goes to put his booted foot on a rock in the fire, but it keeps slipping off into the actual flames, where he ends up leaving it there.....now that sure would have got hot very quickly....anyone else notice what I'm talking about?
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2007, 10:17:56 pm »
Yeah I have been wondering about that too.....since Jack had to  wait till his clothes to drued then how long was it till  he went up the mountain to meet Ennis when he was all dressed in dry clothes again.  I can't imagine that the clothes dried too fast on the chilly, cloudy mountain, so maybe it had to be a few days later?

Actually, seriously, you do touch on something here that others of us have wondered and speculated about: the passage of time between their first time in the tent, the "I'm not queer" conversation, and the second time that we see them in the tent.

It's tempting to assume the second tent scene took place on the evening of the day of the "I'm not queer" conversation--and maybe we're supposed to assume those two events took place on the same day--but when they have that conversation, it looks like a very dreary and cold and probably damp afternoon--they both have their gloves on, and Jack has that fleece-lined jacket of his buttoned up to his chin.

But the night of the second tent scene, it looks to me like the weather is downright warm. Jack is shirtless in the tent, and Ennis is out by the fire without his coat. It can't just be that the fire is warm enough; they have a fire the night of the first tent scene, but before they try to sleep, they're all bundled up. Ennis has his coat on, and Jack's wearing his jacket even in the bedroll.

Maybe the weather just changes awful quick up there on Brokeback.  ???
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Offline Katie77

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2007, 10:22:55 pm »

But the night of the second tent scene, it looks to me like the weather is downright warm. Jack is shirtless in the tent, and Ennis is out by the fire without his coat. It can't just be that the fire is warm enough; they have a fire the night of the first tent scene, but before they try to sleep, they're all bundled up. Ennis has his coat on, and Jack's wearing his jacket even in the bedroll.

Maybe the weather just changes awful quick up there on Brokeback.  ???

Guess they were just so damn HOT for each other, that the weather didnt bother 'em...
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Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2007, 10:26:34 pm »
Actually, seriously, you do touch on something here that others of us have wondered and speculated about: the passage of time between their first time in the tent, the "I'm not queer" conversation, and the second time that we see them in the tent.

It's tempting to assume the second tent scene took place on the evening of the day of the "I'm not queer" conversation--and maybe we're supposed to assume those two events took place on the same day--but when they have that conversation, it looks like a very dreary and cold and probably damp afternoon--they both have their gloves on, and Jack has that fleece-lined jacket of his buttoned up to his chin.

But the night of the second tent scene, it looks to me like the weather is downright warm. Jack is shirtless in the tent, and Ennis is out by the fire without his coat. It can't just be that the fire is warm enough; they have a fire the night of the first tent scene, but before they try to sleep, they're all bundled up. Ennis has his coat on, and Jack's wearing his jacket even in the bedroll.

Maybe the weather just changes awful quick up there on Brokeback.  ???



Your right, I truy wonder what happened between 'me neither' and TS2, I didnt think of a time lapse there but it makes sense there would be like you said.  I also wonder how they acted with each other and what they said,, but I imagine that they couldn't speak...

Also between TS1 and 'I aint queer'  Ennis had to kill the coyote and get the tail hanging up, that's a lot to happen in one day,  I like to think that maybe Ennis was up there for a couple of days, just brooding and thinking, and that is why Jack went up to him, because he couldn't wait longer to find out what Ennis was thinking afterwaiting for several days....



Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2007, 10:28:03 pm »
Guess they were just so damn HOT for each other, that the weather didnt bother 'em...


This could be true too   :D :D



Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2007, 10:31:43 pm »

 

Also between TS1 and 'I aint queer'  Ennis had to kill the coyote and get the tail hanging up, that's a lot to happen in one day,  I like to think that maybe Ennis was up there for a couple of days, just brooding and thinking, and that is why Jack went up to him, because he couldn't wait longer to find out what Ennis was thinking afterwaiting for several days....
Ennis killed the coyote much earlier, perhaps it was the one he spoke of when he began to wash up.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Katie77

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2007, 10:40:24 pm »

Your right, I truy wonder what happened between 'me neither' and TS2, I didnt think of a time lapse there but it makes sense there would be like you said.  I also wonder how they acted with each other and what they said,, but I imagine that they couldn't speak...

Also between TS1 and 'I aint queer'  Ennis had to kill the coyote and get the tail hanging up, that's a lot to happen in one day,  I like to think that maybe Ennis was up there for a couple of days, just brooding and thinking, and that is why Jack went up to him, because he couldn't wait longer to find out what Ennis was thinking afterwaiting for several days....

From what you say here, "jack went up to him", that TS2 happened up with the sheep.....I always assumed it happened in the camp, and I always assumed it happened the same night as the "I aint queer" which was the day after TS1....

Ennis couldn't have stayed up with the sheep for a couple of days, because he wouldn't have had any food...(unless he ate that poor sheep that was bludgeoned by the coyote)....
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2007, 10:45:13 pm »
TS2 definitly happened at camp, Ennis is sitting on the log seen earlier being hauled by Jack when setting up at camp.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 11:00:08 pm »
Yes I am talking about after Ennis saw the dead sheep, then we see Jack washing, then there is a quick shot of a coyote, I think, then the  field sheep with a stick and a tail hanging off it in the foreground in front of all the sheep  Then we see Jack kinda reclining and Ennis walks up to him holding the gun and  then sits down and says "you know, its a one shot thing" 

IMO Ennis killls the coyote that killed the the sheep , and then Jack comes up the mountain because when he is there and waitng for Ennis  you can hear the sheep.

Then they go back down the mountain to the camp and TS2.

The shot of the coyote after the dead sheep before we see Jack is very very quick, I had to watch many many times to see that it was a coyote, I think at least it was one.

Didn't mean not to be clear.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 11:24:52 pm by marlb42 »



Offline serious crayons

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2007, 12:03:48 am »
Must admit, I wondered what Ennis had in the bag, and in the beginning it looked like a paper bag to me, but when he was looking for his shirt, when they came down from the mountain, it looked like a material one.

I think he got this from the supply guy. It make sense that he wouldn't have a paper bag handy when coming off the mountain -- his original one would be demolished by then, and he hadn't been to the grocery store. But also, I think the filmmakers wanted to differentiate, so that the only times Ennis is seen carrying a paper bag holding two shirts is at the very beginning and the very end.

(Which also explains the puzzling lack of spare jeans and rain slicker in his original bag.)

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2007, 06:22:47 am »
I have always thought Ennis kills two coyotes: the one with balls the size of apples, and the one that killed the sheep while Ennis was having TS1 with Jack.

Why Ennis was hammerin' the first night, but then jacketless the second: By the time he crawls into the tent for TS1, it's very, very late at night, he's been sleeping directly on the ground, with no fire.  The very next night, for TS2, I picture that they are going to bed basically directly after dinner.  He's been sitting up off the ground by a warm fire, and the sun has only been set for a while.  And they are highly motivated to be wearing as little as possible.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2007, 09:53:40 am »
I have always thought Ennis kills two coyotes: the one with balls the size of apples, and the one that killed the sheep while Ennis was having TS1 with Jack.

I wonder if the one with balls the size of apples was the one Jack missed?  ;D

Quote
Why Ennis was hammerin' the first night, but then jacketless the second: By the time he crawls into the tent for TS1, it's very, very late at night, he's been sleeping directly on the ground, with no fire.  The very next night, for TS2, I picture that they are going to bed basically directly after dinner.  He's been sitting up off the ground by a warm fire, and the sun has only been set for a while.  And they are highly motivated to be wearing as little as possible.

Sounds reasonable, though I wonder about Jack sleeping in his coat the night of TS1 and not even wearing a shirt at the beginning of TS2.

Somewhere I picked up the notion that the sack Ennis is rooting through, looking for his shirt as they stand by Jack's pickup, was an old feed bag. I guess I ought to check the story, or the screen play.

And of course, as Katherine suggests, the paper bag Ennis carries at the beginning "bookends" the paper bag Jack's mother gives him for the shirts. To be completely honest, though, I've always felt that bag that Heath carries at the beginning is unrealistically small--can't be more in it than a rolled up shirt and a tootbrush--and I find it difficult to believe that anybody is that poor. Heck, homeless people on the streets of Philadelphia drag more stuff around with them than Ennis has when he gets out of that cattle truck.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2007, 01:08:43 pm »
. Heck, homeless people on the streets of Philadelphia drag more stuff around with them than Ennis has when he gets out of that cattle truck.  :-\

Ang Lee probably didn't think it would be as poignant an image to show Ennis pushing a grocery cart up the street.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2007, 01:16:10 pm »
Ang Lee probably didn't think it would be as poignant an image to show Ennis pushing a grocery cart up the street.



 ;D
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2007, 04:39:33 pm »

Sounds reasonable, though I wonder about Jack sleeping in his coat the night of TS1 and not even wearing a shirt at the beginning of TS2.

Same reasoning - it's freezing during TS1, and he's thinking that Ennis's company is unlikely.   For TS2, he knows Ennis is out there pondering the "should I or shouldn't I" of going in.  So he's ready, in case.  Hopeful.


Offline mouk

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2007, 09:48:04 am »
Ang Lee probably didn't think it would be as poignant an image to show Ennis pushing a grocery cart up the street.



 :laugh: :laugh:

Paperbag: the screenplay says: 'just a grocery sack stuffed with his only other shirt and a pair of Levi's

As for the time elapsed between TS1 and TS2 : very interesting Marlb about Jack having to wait for his clothes to dry before going up there. Ennis could not have stayed up there for a long time without food, but it is quite possible that he did not come down the night after TS1 and that Jack joined him the next day.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2007, 03:21:41 pm »

Ennis could not have stayed up there for a long time without food


Ennis strikes me as someone who could go much longer than I feel comfortable between meals.  The story says he decides to not come back to camp for breakfast, once he takes on the job of herder, instead coming back to camp only once a day.


Offline mouk

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2007, 03:29:19 pm »
Ellemeno, I agree with you that he was stoic and used to deprivation. But he did not skip breakfast altogether as he took with him 'leftover biscuits, a jar of jam and a jar of coffee'

What I meant is he could have stayed up there one or two days, but not much more, don't you think?

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2007, 03:34:18 pm »
Ellemeno, I agree with you that he was stoic and used to deprivation. But he did not skip breakfast altogether as he took with him 'leftover biscuits, a jar of jam and a jar of coffee'

What I meant is he could have stayed up there one or two days, but not much more, don't you think?

Agreed. :)

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2007, 03:44:57 pm »
I think Ennis was onlly up there for the day. He does acknowege Jack when he says "See you fer supper." with a "Yep." exactly as when Jack said "You won't get much sleep up there." Jack would not have been wanted not to see Ennis that day. If the sun was out he could have dried his clothes in a couple of hours.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Katie77

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2007, 03:52:40 pm »
My thoughts too, is that TS2, probably took place, early in the evening, just after supper, and that after the lovemaking, Ennis would have gone back up to the sheep...considering what happened after TS1, when he found the dead sheep, he knew he needed to be up there to guard them thru the night...
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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 11:51:27 am »
Hi there,

The scene at the camp was shot on a rainy day (looks like) so, most likely, it was just handed to Ennis by one of the crew so Ennis just held on to it. 

What I would like to know is how did the old GMC pick-up driven by Jack when he first barely made it to Aguirre trailer at the beginning of the movie end up with Ennis?  Remember the second meeting after 4 years! 

Pierre -  ???



I always thought it was so sweet that Ennis would only buy trucks that Jack had first...or as close as he could get....first the old GMC then the Ford (the green one he had at the end of the movie)...the same style and model that Jack had at the reunion...he couldn't afford them new so he bought them when he could....

wonder if Jack noticed that and knew what it meant?

squashcourt

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2007, 07:05:38 pm »
Well, I guess it ain't the movie The Devil wears Prada !

Luv,

Pierre -  :D




injest

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2007, 08:13:37 pm »
I have always thought Ennis kills two coyotes: the one with balls the size of apples, and the one that killed the sheep while Ennis was having TS1 with Jack.

Why Ennis was hammerin' the first night, but then jacketless the second: By the time he crawls into the tent for TS1, it's very, very late at night, he's been sleeping directly on the ground, with no fire.  The very next night, for TS2, I picture that they are going to bed basically directly after dinner.  He's been sitting up off the ground by a warm fire, and the sun has only been set for a while.  And they are highly motivated to be wearing as little as possible.


ROTF!!

is this what we are calling it these days?

"Hey Don, you in the mood for a little TS1??"

Don: "huh?"

squashcourt

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2007, 08:41:39 pm »
Something else, that always catches my eye....in one of the campfire scenes, Jack goes to put his booted foot on a rock in the fire, but it keeps slipping off into the actual flames, where he ends up leaving it there.....now that sure would have got hot very quickly....anyone else notice what I'm talking about?

He drank half the bottle of whiskey (most likely Old Turkey bourbon) no wonder his booted foot kept slipping.  :D

Incidentally, regarding jeans - Jack had also a pair of dark jeans besides his blue levis.  Noticed this in the TS2 when lying over Ennis.

I understand Jake did not mind having that scene iin his underwears on but some protested and did not agree with him.  Jake has a better physical built than Heath.  Still, it would have been more effective even without the camera focussing on the lower half of the two.

Pierre -  ;)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 08:47:20 pm by squashcourt »

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another clothing question......
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2007, 03:27:11 pm »

Jake has a better physical built than Heath. 


Hey, fella, them's disagreein' words!

;)