Ennis' non-vomiting

[kirkmusic]

I've read a bunch of people say that when Jack drives away after the first summer on Brokeback, Ennis walks into a (whatever that little area was) and vomits.  In the short story and also on the screen what we can see actually happening is Ennis heaving but nothing coming out.  Like there's something inside that instinctually needs to come out, to be expressed, but can't and doesn't.  Like even when his body is desperately trying to open Ennis up, he can't comply.  Good image that.  And it was Annie's to begin with.

I hope I'm not repeating an old thread.  I haven't seen it anywhere so I thought I'd bring it up.

[vkm91941]

Agreed Kirk it's almost like inconsolable grief.  Being brokenhearted at the sudden awareness of the enormity of the loss.  After the closeness and intimacy they shared for 2 months, to watch Jack drive away with the belief he would never see him again. That's what brought Ennis to his knees.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Like even when his body is desperately trying to open Ennis up, he can't comply.

Nice way to put it, Kirk.

Ennis's body knows what it's losing, but his mind can't or won't grasp it. It's like Diana Ossana says in her essay in Story to Screenplay, he's completely out of touch with his own feelings.

[serious crayons]

Well, who am I to argue with Diana, but it seems to me that Movie Ennis is less out of touch with his feelings (as in, not aware of them because they're too subconscious or complex) than he is overwhelmed by his feelings, afraid of them and unable to express them. Of course, maybe that's what Diana meant.

Movie Ennis was shocked and upset as soon as he saw the tent taken down, sulked for an hour and not only vomited in the alley but also punched the wall, collapsed and cried. Even when he fought with Jack back on the mountain, he was expressing his frustration and anger at the situation, and maybe also at Jack for seeming so chipper. (I also think the fighting was a way to get in some last bit of physical contact when he didn't know how to initiate it romantically, and that impulse probably WAS more subconscious on his part.) In other words, Ennis pretty much knew how he felt, but had no idea what to do about it.

Story Ennis I would describe as out of touch, though. He tells Jack it took him a year to figure out why he vomited. There's a sense that his emotions are more suppressed.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Well, who am I to argue with Diana, but it seems to me that Movie Ennis is less out of touch with his feelings (as in, not aware of them because they're too subconscious or complex) than he is overwhelmed by his feelings, afraid of them and unable to express them. Of course, maybe that's what Diana meant.

Movie Ennis was shocked and upset as soon as he saw the tent taken down, sulked for an hour and not only vomited in the alley but also punched the wall, collapsed and cried. Even when he fought with Jack back on the mountain, he was expressing his frustration and anger at the situation, and maybe also at Jack for seeming so chipper. (I also think the fighting was a way to get in some last bit of physical contact when he didn't know how to initiate it romantically, and that impulse probably WAS more subconscious on his part.) In other words, Ennis pretty much knew how he felt, but had no idea what to do about it.

Story Ennis I would describe as out of touch, though. He tells Jack it took him a year to figure out why he vomited. There's a sense that his emotions are more suppressed.

Now, isn't that funny? It seems to me that you and I see "the two Ennises" (Story vs. Film) exactly opposite. (But I agree with your point about Ennis being overwhelmed by his feelings. He is certainly that. But I would submit that being overwhelmed doesn't necessarily mean being in touch.)

It did take Story Ennis a year to figure out what caused his gut cramps--but he did figure it out. By the time Jack comes back to Wyoming after four years, he knows perfectly well what's going on with himself and Jack. He just won't act on it out of fear of society's reaction.

In contrast, with help from reading Diana's essay in Story to Screenplay, my understanding is that all that dialogue that I love so much in Annie Proulx's motel scene--about how he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sights, and so forth--is not in the movie because Film Ennis hasn't figured it out--in other words, he's not in touch with his feelings. And he doesn't really "get it" until the end, when he finds those shirts, and it's too late.

That's how I understand the film. That's my Brokeback Mountain and I'm stickin' to it.   

[serious crayons]

OK, here's how I like to think of it:

Story Ennis is far better at verbal expression, and also less inhibited. I can't imagine Movie Ennis ever saying anything like "I never shoulda let you outa my sight" or "I musta wrang it out a hundred times" or "Li'l darlin."

But just because Movie Ennis rarely -- or never! -- puts his feelings into words doesn't mean he doesn't know what they are. Yes, he tries to deny and hide them from others. He's terrible at expressing them appropriately. And he is a complete failure at acting on them in a constructive way. But I think he recognizes his feelings for what they are, as evidenced by his breakdown in the alley, his moments of wistful longing during their four years' separation, his elation when he gets the postcard, his burst of affection when Jack shows up for the reunion, his "prayer of thanks" remark (that's about as close as he ever gets to expressing love in words, and even then he undercuts it with the harmonica crack), his happy smile whenever he sees Jack (even in the post-divorce scene!), his jealousy at the prospect of Jack seeing other men, his grief after he gets the news of Jack, etc. He's not a verbal guy, but to me his behavior clearly indicates that he knows all along how much he loves Jack.

What he realizes in the end is that he blew it -- he should have acted while he had the chance, overcome his fears, taken whatever risks were necessary in order to be with the love of his life. He realizes that love matters more than anything else (indicated by his question of Alma Jr.).

Another difference is that Story Ennis seems to reject Jack's offer out of purely practical fear of violent consequences. Movie Ennis also makes that excuse, but I think that his fear is mixed with more shame and reluctance to admit that he's gay. Story Ennis seems to accept that more matter-of-factly. He's less homophobic. I guess you could take this as a sign that he's more in touch with his feelings, but I think it's actually a matter of being more comfortable with categorizing those feelings in a way that Movie Ennis couldn't allow himself to do. Until the end.

[Jeff Wrangler]

OK, here's how I like to think of it:

Story Ennis is far better at verbal expression, and also less inhibited. I can't imagine Movie Ennis ever saying anything like "I never shoulda let you outa my sight" or "I musta wrang it out a hundred times" or "Li'l darlin."

But just because Movie Ennis rarely -- or never! -- puts his feelings into words doesn't mean he doesn't know what they are. Yes, he tries to deny and hide them from others. He's terrible at expressing them appropriately. And he is a complete failure at acting on them in a constructive way. But I think he recognizes his feelings for what they are, as evidenced by his breakdown in the alley, his moments of wistful longing during their four years' separation, his elation when he gets the postcard, his burst of affection when Jack shows up for the reunion, his "prayer of thanks" remark (that's about as close as he ever gets to expressing love in words, and even then he undercuts it with the harmonica crack), his happy smile whenever he sees Jack (even in the post-divorce scene!), his jealousy at the prospect of Jack seeing other men, his grief after he gets the news of Jack, etc. He's not a verbal guy, but to me his behavior clearly indicates that he knows all along how much he loves Jack.

What he realizes in the end is that he blew it -- he should have acted while he had the chance, overcome his fears, taken whatever risks were necessary in order to be with the love of his life. He realizes that love matters more than anything else (indicated by his question of Alma Jr.).

Another difference is that Story Ennis seems to reject Jack's offer out of purely practical fear of violent consequences. Movie Ennis also makes that excuse, but I think that his fear is mixed with more shame and reluctance to admit that he's gay. Story Ennis seems to accept that more matter-of-factly. He's less homophobic. I guess you could take this as a sign that he's more in touch with his feelings, but I think it's actually a matter of being more comfortable with categorizing those feelings in a way that Movie Ennis couldn't allow himself to do. Until the end.

We certainly agree on at least two important points. Story Ennis is absolutely less inhibited and far better at verbal expression than his screen incarnation. In the story I love the dialogue you quote and really miss it from the film, but in a discussion on the Old Board a long time ago, some of us agreed--reluctantly--that those bits of Annie Proulx's dialogure were not consistent with the character of Movie Ennis.

And "fear mixed with shame and reluctance to admit he is gay" is about as good a definition of internalized homophobia as I've ever seen. So Story Ennis is less internally homophobic.

However, I also think there is more going on in the confrontation scene than just Ennis being jealous of Jack of having sex with other guys. To me, that's what's happening with Story Ennis. It's also happening with Movie Ennis, but I think Movie Ennis's internalized homphobia plays a big role in his reaction to Jack's revelation that he's been to Mexico. Story Ennis just collapses to his knees and doesn't say anything. Movie Ennis, however, lashes out verbally at Jack. My take is that if Jack is having sex with other guys besides Ennis, not only do they not have the "one shot deal" that Ennis has supposed they have had for nearly 20 years, but I think it also means, to Ennis, that Jack is gay, and that challenges Ennis's concept of who and what he (Ennis) is, as well as the basis of their relationship.

I also agree that one thing that's happening at the end is that Ennis realizes he blew it. But I think his question to Alma, Jr., as to whether her boyfriend loves her isn't just that he has come to understand the importance of love. He's also come to understand, finally, that love is really what he had with Jack, and now it's too late. The shirts are all he has.

[serious crayons]

However, I also think there is more going on in the confrontation scene than just Ennis being jealous of Jack of having sex with other guys. To me, that's what's happening with Story Ennis. It's also happening with Movie Ennis, but I think Movie Ennis's internalized homphobia plays a big role in his reaction to Jack's revelation that he's been to Mexico. Story Ennis just collapses to his knees and doesn't say anything. Movie Ennis, however, lashes out verbally at Jack. My take is that if Jack is having sex with other guys besides Ennis, not only do they not have the "one shot deal" that Ennis has supposed they have had for nearly 20 years, but I think it also means, to Ennis, that Jack is gay, and that challenges Ennis's concept of who and what he (Ennis) is, as well as the basis of their relationship.

I also agree that one thing that's happening at the end is that Ennis realizes he blew it. But I think his question to Alma, Jr., as to whether her boyfriend loves her isn't just that he has come to understand the importance of love. He's also come to understand, finally, that love is really what he had with Jack, and now it's too late. The shirts are all he has.

On your first point, I sort of agree. This part has always been slightly ambiguous to me: jealousy or homophobia? I read it as either jealousy or some combination. Jack's switching of genders when he confesses his affair the night before is a parallel situation -- Jack either knew Ennis would be jealous or he knew Ennis would be upset by the implications. But a) Ennis' description of Jack as "boys like you," suggests he has already acknowledged Jack's orientation at some level, and b) Ennis' subtle but sad reaction when John Twist reveals the existence of another boyfriend would seem to add support tothe jealousy interpretation.

But on the second point, about why he posed the question to Alma Jr., I stick by my original position. Here his beloved daughter has announced she's marrying someone he's never met and the only question he asks is, does he love you? -- not, how can you be sure or do you feel the same or can he support you or is he a nice guy or anything like that (questions most fathers would ask). All he needs to know is whether the love is there because he now realizes that's all that matters.

As for the omission of Story Ennis' endearments, I'll have to admit (donning hardhat) that I don't miss them. With all due regard for the story, I think Movie Ennis is a more complex and interesting character for the very reasons we're discussing: he's doesn't just weigh his love for Jack against practical risks, he weighs his love against his own strong resistance, his inhibitions and shame and fear (ie, internalized homophobia). To me, that conflict makes the story more powerful -- it shows how strong Ennis' love must be to overcome that kind of emotional struggle, making his obvious desire for Jack all the more moving. And it's also more subtle -- it becomes a story not only about how society's intolerance limits people's practical options, but also about how that intolerance damages people psychologically.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I hope we're not misreading or talking past each other.

On your first point, I sort of agree. This part has always been slightly ambiguous to me: jealousy or homophobia? I read it as either jealousy or some combination. Jack's switching of genders when he confesses his affair the night before is a parallel situation -- Jack either knew Ennis would be jealous or he knew Ennis would be upset by the implications. But a) Ennis' description of Jack as "boys like you," suggests he has already acknowledged Jack's orientation at some level, and b) Ennis' subtle but sad reaction when John Twist reveals the existence of another boyfriend would seem to add support tothe jealousy interpretation.

I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I didn't mean to imply that I didn't think jealousy was involved in Ennis's reaction. I don't believe this is an "either-or" situation. What I was trying to say was that I think his internalized homophobia accounts for the intensity of his reaction. Sure, there is jealousy. Even to someone without Movie Ennis's internalized homophobia it would hurt like hell to find out that someone you thought was monogamous with you--as far as their male-male sex was concerned--for nearly two decades had been cheating on you.

I'm not convinced the "boys like you" comment means other than Ennis knows that Jack likes to get fucked--pardon the explicitness--because that's what they do, and he has heard that guys who like to get fucked can get fucked in Mexico. Even if it does mean that Ennis is acknowledging Jack's orientation at some level, it doesn't detract from the homophobia element in Ennis's reaction.

But on the second point, about why he posed the question to Alma Jr., I stick by my original position. Here his beloved daughter has announced she's marrying someone he's never met and the only question he asks is, does he love you? -- not, how can you be sure or do you feel the same or can he support you or is he a nice guy or anything like that (questions most fathers would ask). All he needs to know is whether the love is there because he now realizes that's all that matters.

I don't believe I really disagreed here, either. You were the one who said Ennis came to understand that he blew it. I meant to say that I believe he came to understand that he blew it because he didn't understand until he found the shirts that what it really was, was love.

As for the omission of Story Ennis' endearments, I'll have to admit (donning hardhat) that I don't miss them. With all due regard for the story, I think Movie Ennis is a more complex and interesting character for the very reasons we're discussing: he's doesn't just weigh his love for Jack against practical risks, he weighs his love against his own strong resistance, his inhibitions and shame and fear (ie, internalized homophobia). To me, that conflict makes the story more powerful -- it shows how strong Ennis' love must be to overcome that kind of emotional struggle, making his obvious desire for Jack all the more moving. And it's also more subtle -- it becomes a story not only about how society's intolerance limits people's practical options, but also about how that intolerance damages people psychologically.

(Throwing brickbats at your hardhat ... LOL!) I miss those lines because they're great dialogue from a master writer. Unquestionably the ramping up of the characters--Jack as well as Ennis--made for a much more powerful story.

And on that note I'm afraid I have to leave this interesting exchange, as I need to get ready for a trip out of town for Easter weekend!

[Brown Eyes]

As for the omission of Story Ennis' endearments, I'll have to admit (donning hardhat) that I don't miss them. With all due regard for the story, I think Movie Ennis is a more complex and interesting character for the very reasons we're discussing: he's doesn't just weigh his love for Jack against practical risks, he weighs his love against his own strong resistance, his inhibitions and shame and fear (ie, internalized homophobia). To me, that conflict makes the story more powerful -- it shows how strong Ennis' love must be to overcome that kind of emotional struggle, making his obvious desire for Jack all the more moving. And it's also more subtle -- it becomes a story not only about how society's intolerance limits people's practical options, but also about how that intolerance damages people psychologically.

What an interesting discussion.  I've been enjoying just sitting back and reading.  I'm not going to add much since many of the points I would likely add have been said in a number of different posts above.  But, I have to say I thought this observation was particularly interesting.  Way to go latjoreme!
 

About different interpreations of the film vs. book though...  I remember early on when I'd only seen the movie a handful of times and had only read the story once or twice, I REALLY liked the movie better than the story.  This is an unusual situation for me (as I love books).  But, one of my reasons for liking the film better was I thought it was flat out more romantic (also not a quality I tend to really worry about too much... but in this case the romance of the film was/ is a huge part of its charm for me).  I feel like Movie Ennis's restraint verbally has something to do with the romance.  The romance and his love comes through in much more subtle ways in the film (usually physically).

At this point I tend to like the film and the book pretty much equally, but for different reasons (In the story I primarily have come to love the way Proulx expresses herself, quirky turns-of-phrase, the poetry of her descriptions).  And, the two Ennis characters truly feel like different people in many ways.  My I love Ennis's endearments in the book (adorable!) but they would seem out of place a bit coming from Movie Ennis. 

[Front-Ranger]

I would also like to add a little about Ennis' emotions earlier in the day when he first got word that their time on the mountain was ending. His first reaction was anger, sulking etc. which is true to his character. He sat in the meadow trying to get control over himself. Then, when Jack came over and lassoed him, Ennis was frustrated because when he tried to walk away, tucking in the shirt, (trying to get control again) Jack lassoed him, and they rolled over and over down the hill, throwing mock punches. So by the time they came to a halt Ennis was close to losing it again, and actually was starting to sob a little when he realized his nose was totally out of control and bleeding. He panicked when Jack came close to him, whispering "Ennis, Ennis" and that's when he punched Jack, just like he punched the wall later. That's my take.

[ednbarby]

I would also like to add a little about Ennis' emotions earlier in the day when he first got word that their time on the mountain was ending. His first reaction was anger, sulking etc. which is true to his character. He sat in the meadow trying to get control over himself. Then, when Jack came over and lassoed him, Ennis was frustrated because when he tried to walk away, tucking in the shirt, (trying to get control again) Jack lassoed him, and they rolled over and over down the hill, throwing mock punches. So by the time they came to a halt Ennis was close to losing it again, and actually was starting to sob a little when he realized his nose was totally out of control and bleeding. He panicked when Jack came close to him, whispering "Ennis, Ennis" and that's when he punched Jack, just like he punched the wall later. That's my take.

I agree.  When Jack is trying to minister to his wounds (all of them) after his nose starts bleeding, he can't take the immediacy and intimacy of his concern because his emotions are swirling out of control and this is the person that's making them do that.  It's all about control with Ennis, and so he punches Jack in a last-ditch effort to get that control back.  This is true to the story, too.

[serious crayons]

Yep! Ditto, ditto, ditto to all the points made above by everybody (except a couple of areas of disagreement with Jeff noted earlier). I'd never thought about Ennis' reaction in terms of control before, but that makes sense to me.

And THIS I especially agree with, Amanda (no surprise, hunh?):

About different interpreations of the film vs. book though...  I remember early on when I'd only seen the movie a handful of times and had only read the story once or twice, I REALLY liked the movie better than the story.  This is an unusual situation for me (as I love books).  But, one of my reasons for liking the film better was I thought it was flat out more romantic (also not a quality I tend to really worry about too much... but in this case the romance of the film was/ is a huge part of its charm for me).  I feel like Movie Ennis's restraint verbally has something to do with the romance.  The romance and his love comes through in much more subtle ways in the film (usually physically).

At this point I tend to like the film and the book pretty much equally, but for different reasons (In the story I primarily have come to love the way Proulx expresses herself, quirky turns-of-phrase, the poetry of her descriptions).  And, the two Ennis characters truly feel like different people in many ways.  My I love Ennis's endearments in the book (adorable!) but they would seem out of place a bit coming from Movie Ennis. 

I, too, usually love books more than the movies made from them, but this case is different. I am blown away by the writing in the story, but it's primarily an intellectual admiration. With the movie I am much more emotionally attached (though I know there are plenty of people on this board who were very emotionally affected by the story).  I can think of several explanations for this, but the main one is the greater complexity of the characters, especially Ennis'. If I had to narrow it down, I'd say what I find most emotionally appealing about the movie is what I mentioned earlier about Ennis' internal struggle: his feelings for Jack vs. his homophobia.

OK, here's how weird I am: I am out of town for the weekend, far from my computer, but I had a couple of hours to kill so I was compelled to go to a library and get onto the internet to see what was happenin here at CT!!!

[Brown Eyes]

Heya latjoreme! 

It's not so wierd to want to check the boards.  I've taken to checking now and then while I'm at work lately.  I guess this is all a *normal* part of brokeback fever.

Anyway, I'm happy to hear people trying to figure out what I like to call the "Confusing Tussle" (as opposed to the charming "Happy Tussle"- the one that Aguirre spies). 

In reference to film vs. book... in this case the book explains the fight/ roll down the hill pretty well.  In the book I understood the bloody nose to be a real accident (Ennis bumping into Jack's knee) and that the "sucker" punch he threw was sort of a reflex that he had learned when he was a kid trying to defend himself against his mean brother.  I'm curious about why the filmmakers omit the story about Ennis's brother in general.  Anyway, the Confusing Tussle scene is interesting in the movie because I feel like it becomes a bit more violent (by both Jack and Ennis... I mean look at their intense faces!) than Proulx intended and it also becomes much more about the emotional struggle between the two of them (and primarily Ennis's internal struggles).

I like the idea that Ennis is reacting to losing control.  That makes a lot of sense to me.  I also think that he has absolutely no idea how to say good bye to Jack.  So, in order to detach himself (to prepare himself for what he feels is his duty... marry Alma, etc.) he begins to act like a jerk and to push Jack away.  Instead of savoring these last moments with Jack on the mountain he lashes out.  It's like he's missing Jack already but Jack is still there.  He continues to be a jerk in his parting comments with Jack.  Again, I think he's trying to force himself to detach emotionally. 

Oh, Ennis...   

[serious crayons]

Hi Amanda! What a good way to describe it, as Ennis' way of emotionally detaching.

However, as a longtime Ennis apologist (I swear, some days it's a full-time job!) I must also note that Jack doesn't do the greatest job of saying goodbye, either. Ennis comes back to find Jack cheerfully taking down the tent (symbol of their most intimate moments!) and explaining Aguirre's instructions with no apparent regret. Ennis, on the other hand, is devastated, and Jack's breezy demeanor makes it worse. He snaps at Jack's offer of a loan not because he's insulted that Jack thinks he needs it, but because he's upset that Jack doesn't seem to share his frustration. And Jack's lassooing thing also seems too lighthearted and flippant to him. Even if Ennis were able to say a heartfelt, serious goodbye, it would be pretty hard to do with Jack appearing so nonchallant. Hard for anyone, let alone Ennis.

Also, and maybe I'm just a romantic (at least when it comes to this movie), but I have always thought part of the reason for their tussle is that, at some subconscious level, it is a way to have one last bit of physical contact when the sexual kind seems out of the question. Some guys in a long-ago thread mentioned thinking the fight looked fakey. I think it looks fakey not because the filmmakers didn't know how to stage a realistic fight, but because it IS kind of fakey. When they roll down the hill together, it seems to me like a substitue for a roll in the hay.

But then Ennis winds up injured, and he reacts in his typical way, by lashing out.

[Brown Eyes]

Oh my god...    So, now I think I'm nuts.  This is seriously a sign that I've been on the boards way too long today.  Sorry.  I'm so embarassed.
 

[Front-Ranger]

Dont be embarassed. What u say makes a lot of sense!

[serious crayons]

What do you mean, Amanda? Your post was excellent. I hope it was not something in MY response to YOUR earlier post that you're referring to. I agreed completely with what you said (of course).

I'm all confused because I came back and found my post came out entirely in purple quote-form. I don't know why, because the *quote* closing symbol thing was not at the end of the post. I don't think. Anyway, I fixed it.

I've probably been on here too long today, myself!

[Brown Eyes]

LOL!!! 
Hey there Friend,


OK.  I feel better.  When I read your post it was all in the purple quote box which caused me to completely misunderstand what you meant...  Essentially, I thought we had just repeated a conversation from someplace else.  Seriously, nevermind.

I'm laughing so hard my side hurts.  I really have been on WAY too long today.  BBM addiction is a strange thing.

 

[Brown Eyes]

Anyway... about Jack and his lasso.  Yes, I do think it upset Ennis that Jack was behaving in such a cheerful way.  I'm guessing that Jack wasn't seeing the end of the job as the end of their relationship.  Ennis was viewing all of this with much more finality.  Jack may already have been hoping that Ennis would go off with him and give up on the Alma idea.  He probably hoped that Ennis would hop into his truck outside Aguirre's trailer and they would figure things out from there.  I do understand why the cheerfulness would be annoying to Ennis.  But, this is perfect Jack behavior.  He's always trying to cheer Ennis up or provide comfort when Ennis is feeling low/ crying, etc.

[vkm91941]

Anyway... about Jack and his lasso.  Yes, I do think it upset Ennis that Jack was behaving in such a cheerful way.  I'm guessing that Jack wasn't seeing the end of the job as the end of their relationship.  Ennis was viewing all of this with much more finality.  Jack may already have been hoping that Ennis would go off with him and give up on the Alma idea.  He probably hoped that Ennis would hop into his truck outside Aguirre's trailer and they would figure things out from there.  I do understand why the cheerfulness would be annoying to Ennis.  But, this is perfect Jack behavior.  He's always trying to cheer Ennis up or provide comfort when Ennis is feeling low/ crying, etc.

I shared something similar on another thread but I think it fits here as well...Jack is a true nurturer, the parent figure if you will, in the relationship. Ennis does not earn his parenting stripes until after Jack's death, when it finally dawns on him what he has sacrificed to his fear. How he was once where his daughter is now with choices and chances.  And he makes the decision to make himself available to her at least by realizing he needs to go to her wedding.

The memory that Jack has of Ennis that haunts him right to the end is that of the "sleeping on your feet like a horse" flashback, in which Ennis almost gives into his nurturing nature.    But Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.   It is finally through negotiating the shirts with Jack's mother that Ennis makes the leap to adulthood, finally developing into the kind of man who is worthy of Jack--sadly, however, it is too late. .

[two_bloody_shirts]

Has anyone actually felt as emotionally bad as Ennis did that day?  I have.  Once, at a time of my life I don't want to think about, I felt an emotional pain so deeply I actually vomited.  It's a terrible, hollow, aching feeling.  Not only that, I've cried so hard and so long I've actually been in physical pain. 

I understood what Ennis was going through then; I think that's one of the reasons why the film affected me so much.  The problem with Ennis is, at first he had no idea what was happening to him.  I can only imagine what a terrifying situation that must have been for him.   

[Ellemeno]

Ennis comes back to find Jack cheerfully taking down the tent (symbol of their most intimate moments!)

Oh this is a great thread.  I'm feeling pretty passive and just reading along nodding, but wanted to just do a thank you for the above, which hadn't occurred to me.  Of all things for Jack to be dismantling and packing up when Ennis shows up.  I'd get sullen right fast too.

[serious crayons]

I'm guessing that Jack wasn't seeing the end of the job as the end of their relationship.  Ennis was viewing all of this with much more finality.  Jack may already have been hoping that Ennis would go off with him and give up on the Alma idea.  He probably hoped that Ennis would hop into his truck outside Aguirre's trailer and they would figure things out from there.  I do understand why the cheerfulness would be annoying to Ennis.  But, this is perfect Jack behavior.  He's always trying to cheer Ennis up or provide comfort when Ennis is feeling low/ crying, etc.

Well, I don't mean to be endlessly argumentative (OK, so I AM endlessly argumentative ...), but I can't let Jack off the hook quite that easily. (Sorry, Amanda! Our first point of disagreement! ) Yes, Jack is usually sensitive and nurturing, but this is one instance, I think, where he could have done better. Ennis gave any number of signals that he was really upset: argued that the snow wasn't a threat, complained about the lost wages, kicked the little stream (and the stream, as discussed in an earlier post, may represent their relationship), picked up a log and then tossed it aside in a frustrated way and then, the most obvious one, went off by himself and sat sulking, rather than help with the chores as he normally would.

In response, Jack DOES try to cheer Ennis up, but in such an upbeat, casual way that it would probably just make Ennis feel worse. As far as Ennis can tell, Jack neither understands nor shares his despair. Suppose instead Jack had approached Ennis the way he did after the bear encounter, with a gentle, "Ennis, what's wrong?" Ennis would have hemmed and hawed but maybe eventually given some indication, and Jack would have talked him out of marrying Alma, and they'd go to the Twist ranch and set up a little cow-and-calf operation ...

OK, maybe not. But who knows, it might have changed things.

The excuse people give for Jack, that he probably just assumes they'll see each other again, seems a bit weak. He knows Ennis is planning to marry Alma, and neither has suggested otherwise. If he hopes for some different outcome, his usual approach would be to come right out and say something, but in this case he doesn't. He never makes any mention of getting together again in the near future, or even lingering a little longer together in Signal. Putting the best possible spin on it, that Jack figures they'll meet again next year, still isn't quite enough. Even if another summer on Brokeback were a sure thing, it would still be pretty sad to suddenly and unexpectedly have to say goodbye to the man you love and not expect to see him again for a whole year!

Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.

I don't think this applies to Movie Ennis. He seems to have no problem embracing Jack from the front in either TS2 or reunion scene. In fact, he clearly thinks it's great.

Actually, I'll have to say (hardhat firmly in place) that I think this is a slight flaw in the story; I don't recall even Story Ennis giving much indication elsewhere of feeling uncomfortable with that (on the contrary, the implication is that it's ALMA he doesn't want to see from the front).

[Jeff Wrangler]

Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.

I don't think this applies to Movie Ennis. He seems to have no problem embracing Jack from the front in either TS2 or reunion scene. In fact, he clearly thinks it's great.

Swear-to-God I had no idea I was going to get back on this thread, but here I am. I agree, the story's notion that Ennis couldn't embrace Jack from the front makes no sense in the "movie universe" of the Second Tent Scene. There was a discussion about this a long time ago on a board far, far away. It simply doesn't apply to the film.

Actually, I'll have to say (hardhat firmly in place) that I think this is a slight flaw in the story; I don't recall even Story Ennis giving much indication elsewhere of feeling uncomfortable with that (on the contrary, the implication is that it's ALMA he doesn't want to see from the front).

I'm not going to go into the question of a "flaw" in the story. I'll merely observe that we are not told in the story when, during that fateful summer, the embrace that became so important in Jack's memory actually took place. I can accept an evolution in Story Ennis, however. I can believe that there was a time, early on after they first started having sex, that he didn't want to admit to himself that he was embracing another guy. By the time of the reunion, however, Story Ennis has figured out that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sights (and has been regularly wringing it out while thinking of Jack), so that by then he clearly has no problem embracing Jack face to face.

I can also accept that in both Story and Film, what's so important to Jack is the sexless intimacy of the embrace.

Oh, and cool observation about Ennis not wanting to see Alma from the front!

[serious crayons]

Hey, Jeff! Good to have you back! And in celebration, I won't argue with anything you said this time. Your observation that Story Ennis could have evolved after the dozy embrace makes perfect sense. I take back my suggestion that it's a flaw.

I love this thread.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Hey, Jeff! Good to have you back! And in celebration, I won't argue with anything you said this time. Your observation that Story Ennis could have evolved after the dozy embrace makes perfect sense. I take back my suggestion that it's a flaw.

I love this thread.

Aww, now that's real nice of you! Thank you! May I suggest, though, that it's unnecessary to take back the comment? One might consider it a "flaw" in the story-telling that we are not told where that dozy embrace fell chronologically in the development of Ennis and Jack's relationship. And my interpretation is just that, my interpretation put together "extra" (outside of the) text.

While, as Meryl so memorably put it in her "Brokeback Creed," "I believe in Annie, the Author Almighty, creator of Ennis and Jack," it's always annoyed me that we are not told exactly what is meant that Jack drives all that way "for nothing" after Ennis's divorce is finalized. And since my first viewing of the movie I've been in awe of the post-divorce structure that McMurtry and Ossana built on what isn't even an entire sentence in the original story--one reason why I was so happy they got the Adapted Screenplay Oscar. (And by always, I mean going back to the original New Yorker publication, where I first read it.)

[Front-Ranger]

Yes, you're right, it looks like a roll in the hay and Ennis is even saying things like "I'll teach you" and "you think you're a cowboy?" Too bad it took me only 2 1/2 months to assimilate what you said, Katherine!

[nakymaton]

Yes, you're right, it looks like a roll in the hay and Ennis is even saying things like "I'll teach you" and "you think you're a cowboy?" Too bad it took me only 2 1/2 months to assimilate what you said, Katherine!

You been watching some movie with headphones on or something, F-R? Are you describing things you hadn't seen before in the "angry tussle"?

(I haven't watched the movie over a month and a half. I'm going on a 3-day trip on Wednesday. Should I pack my headphones and watch the movie on my computer?)

[serious crayons]

Hey, you guys! Way to revive an ancient post. It's so long ago, Lee, I'm not even sure what gem of wisdom of mine you're referring to! (There are so many ....  )

And I'm with Mel; I haven't heard those lines, either! But they do reinforce my theory about their real motivations in the tussle.

And Mel, YES, by all means take the headphones and report back. (Be sure to listen really closely in the closet scene and then come back and support my "I love you" theory!)

[nakymaton]

I'll make sure to remove the headphones at the appropriate time. Not gonna spoil my illusions, nuh-uh.

[Front-Ranger]

Okay, what he really says is, "This ain't no rodeo, cowboy" as he grabs the rope and pulls Jack toward him. Just wanted to clear that up! It's amazing the tricks your memory can play when you're going over and over something in your mind!

[Front-Ranger]

We have exhausted this topic--NOT!!

[southendmd]

Another bump for a cool thread. 

[ifyoucantfixit]

    It is good to see this kind of thread reactivated.   
It has been ages since we actually discussed the movie.
 
    I had always thought that Ennis was so depressed. and put out with Jack, because
he was deeply reflecting the reality of the situation.  He wanted as much as Jack
did to have a life together.  He was wondering if he could disappoint Alma,
go back on his ingrained reaction to the death he saw, and  put it all together. In order to come to the conclusion that he  so desperately craved.  Thus when Jack tried jovially to bring him out of his funk.  He reacted with anger.  (I am sure in his mind, he could not see how under the circumstances, Jack could be so light hearted.)  He had so much emotion bottled up inside, that he simply erupted.  I think it even surprised him.  Thus the reason that he felt the need to apologize four years later for his actions.  Even if it was not outright.  He obviously had been sorry for it, for the entire time they were separated.  "He more or less said it."  He obviously figured out, too late by aplenty, "that I should have never let you out of my sights."