Author Topic: Ennis' non-vomiting  (Read 16066 times)

vkm91941

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2006, 12:09:32 am »
Anyway... about Jack and his lasso.  Yes, I do think it upset Ennis that Jack was behaving in such a cheerful way.  I'm guessing that Jack wasn't seeing the end of the job as the end of their relationship.  Ennis was viewing all of this with much more finality.  Jack may already have been hoping that Ennis would go off with him and give up on the Alma idea.  He probably hoped that Ennis would hop into his truck outside Aguirre's trailer and they would figure things out from there.  I do understand why the cheerfulness would be annoying to Ennis.  But, this is perfect Jack behavior.  He's always trying to cheer Ennis up or provide comfort when Ennis is feeling low/ crying, etc.

I shared something similar on another thread but I think it fits here as well...Jack is a true nurturer, the parent figure if you will, in the relationship. Ennis does not earn his parenting stripes until after Jack's death, when it finally dawns on him what he has sacrificed to his fear. How he was once where his daughter is now with choices and chances.  And he makes the decision to make himself available to her at least by realizing he needs to go to her wedding.

The memory that Jack has of Ennis that haunts him right to the end is that of the "sleeping on your feet like a horse" flashback, in which Ennis almost gives into his nurturing nature.    But Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.   It is finally through negotiating the shirts with Jack's mother that Ennis makes the leap to adulthood, finally developing into the kind of man who is worthy of Jack--sadly, however, it is too late. .

Offline two_bloody_shirts

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2006, 12:18:49 am »
Has anyone actually felt as emotionally bad as Ennis did that day?  I have.  Once, at a time of my life I don't want to think about, I felt an emotional pain so deeply I actually vomited.  It's a terrible, hollow, aching feeling.  Not only that, I've cried so hard and so long I've actually been in physical pain. 

I understood what Ennis was going through then; I think that's one of the reasons why the film affected me so much.  The problem with Ennis is, at first he had no idea what was happening to him.  I can only imagine what a terrifying situation that must have been for him.   
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2006, 02:20:30 am »
Ennis comes back to find Jack cheerfully taking down the tent (symbol of their most intimate moments!)

Oh this is a great thread.  I'm feeling pretty passive and just reading along nodding, but wanted to just do a thank you for the above, which hadn't occurred to me.  Of all things for Jack to be dismantling and packing up when Ennis shows up.  I'd get sullen right fast too.


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2006, 01:24:30 pm »
I'm guessing that Jack wasn't seeing the end of the job as the end of their relationship.  Ennis was viewing all of this with much more finality.  Jack may already have been hoping that Ennis would go off with him and give up on the Alma idea.  He probably hoped that Ennis would hop into his truck outside Aguirre's trailer and they would figure things out from there.  I do understand why the cheerfulness would be annoying to Ennis.  But, this is perfect Jack behavior.  He's always trying to cheer Ennis up or provide comfort when Ennis is feeling low/ crying, etc.

Well, I don't mean to be endlessly argumentative (OK, so I AM endlessly argumentative ...), but I can't let Jack off the hook quite that easily. (Sorry, Amanda! Our first point of disagreement! :-\) Yes, Jack is usually sensitive and nurturing, but this is one instance, I think, where he could have done better. Ennis gave any number of signals that he was really upset: argued that the snow wasn't a threat, complained about the lost wages, kicked the little stream (and the stream, as discussed in an earlier post, may represent their relationship), picked up a log and then tossed it aside in a frustrated way and then, the most obvious one, went off by himself and sat sulking, rather than help with the chores as he normally would.

In response, Jack DOES try to cheer Ennis up, but in such an upbeat, casual way that it would probably just make Ennis feel worse. As far as Ennis can tell, Jack neither understands nor shares his despair. Suppose instead Jack had approached Ennis the way he did after the bear encounter, with a gentle, "Ennis, what's wrong?" Ennis would have hemmed and hawed but maybe eventually given some indication, and Jack would have talked him out of marrying Alma, and they'd go to the Twist ranch and set up a little cow-and-calf operation ...

OK, maybe not. But who knows, it might have changed things.

The excuse people give for Jack, that he probably just assumes they'll see each other again, seems a bit weak. He knows Ennis is planning to marry Alma, and neither has suggested otherwise. If he hopes for some different outcome, his usual approach would be to come right out and say something, but in this case he doesn't. He never makes any mention of getting together again in the near future, or even lingering a little longer together in Signal. Putting the best possible spin on it, that Jack figures they'll meet again next year, still isn't quite enough. Even if another summer on Brokeback were a sure thing, it would still be pretty sad to suddenly and unexpectedly have to say goodbye to the man you love and not expect to see him again for a whole year!

Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.

I don't think this applies to Movie Ennis. He seems to have no problem embracing Jack from the front in either TS2 or reunion scene. In fact, he clearly thinks it's great.

Actually, I'll have to say (hardhat firmly in place) that I think this is a slight flaw in the story; I don't recall even Story Ennis giving much indication elsewhere of feeling uncomfortable with that (on the contrary, the implication is that it's ALMA he doesn't want to see from the front).


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2006, 01:58:20 pm »
Annie Proulx makes it clear in the story that he can't, even then, look Jack in the face. Cannot admit that it is Jack he embraces.

Quote
I don't think this applies to Movie Ennis. He seems to have no problem embracing Jack from the front in either TS2 or reunion scene. In fact, he clearly thinks it's great.

Swear-to-God I had no idea I was going to get back on this thread, but here I am. I agree, the story's notion that Ennis couldn't embrace Jack from the front makes no sense in the "movie universe" of the Second Tent Scene. There was a discussion about this a long time ago on a board far, far away. It simply doesn't apply to the film.

Quote
Actually, I'll have to say (hardhat firmly in place) that I think this is a slight flaw in the story; I don't recall even Story Ennis giving much indication elsewhere of feeling uncomfortable with that (on the contrary, the implication is that it's ALMA he doesn't want to see from the front).

I'm not going to go into the question of a "flaw" in the story. I'll merely observe that we are not told in the story when, during that fateful summer, the embrace that became so important in Jack's memory actually took place. I can accept an evolution in Story Ennis, however. I can believe that there was a time, early on after they first started having sex, that he didn't want to admit to himself that he was embracing another guy. By the time of the reunion, however, Story Ennis has figured out that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sights (and has been regularly wringing it out while thinking of Jack), so that by then he clearly has no problem embracing Jack face to face.

I can also accept that in both Story and Film, what's so important to Jack is the sexless intimacy of the embrace.

Oh, and cool observation about Ennis not wanting to see Alma from the front!

"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2006, 02:08:01 pm »
Hey, Jeff! Good to have you back! And in celebration, I won't argue with anything you said this time. Your observation that Story Ennis could have evolved after the dozy embrace makes perfect sense. I take back my suggestion that it's a flaw.

I love this thread.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2006, 03:23:25 pm »
Hey, Jeff! Good to have you back! And in celebration, I won't argue with anything you said this time. Your observation that Story Ennis could have evolved after the dozy embrace makes perfect sense. I take back my suggestion that it's a flaw.

I love this thread.



Aww, now that's real nice of you! Thank you! May I suggest, though, that it's unnecessary to take back the comment? One might consider it a "flaw" in the story-telling that we are not told where that dozy embrace fell chronologically in the development of Ennis and Jack's relationship. And my interpretation is just that, my interpretation put together "extra" (outside of the) text.

While, as Meryl so memorably put it in her "Brokeback Creed," "I believe in Annie, the Author Almighty, creator of Ennis and Jack," it's always annoyed me that we are not told exactly what is meant that Jack drives all that way "for nothing" after Ennis's divorce is finalized. And since my first viewing of the movie I've been in awe of the post-divorce structure that McMurtry and Ossana built on what isn't even an entire sentence in the original story--one reason why I was so happy they got the Adapted Screenplay Oscar. (And by always, I mean going back to the original New Yorker publication, where I first read it.)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2006, 02:52:57 pm »
Yes, you're right, it looks like a roll in the hay and Ennis is even saying things like "I'll teach you" and "you think you're a cowboy?" Too bad it took me only 2 1/2 months to assimilate what you said, Katherine!
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2006, 04:13:46 pm »
Yes, you're right, it looks like a roll in the hay and Ennis is even saying things like "I'll teach you" and "you think you're a cowboy?" Too bad it took me only 2 1/2 months to assimilate what you said, Katherine!

You been watching some movie with headphones on or something, F-R? Are you describing things you hadn't seen before in the "angry tussle"?

(I haven't watched the movie over a month and a half. I'm going on a 3-day trip on Wednesday. Should I pack my headphones and watch the movie on my computer?)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis' non-vomiting
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2006, 01:43:24 am »
Hey, you guys! Way to revive an ancient post. It's so long ago, Lee, I'm not even sure what gem of wisdom of mine you're referring to! (There are so many ....  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:)

And I'm with Mel; I haven't heard those lines, either! But they do reinforce my theory about their real motivations in the tussle.

And Mel, YES, by all means take the headphones and report back. (Be sure to listen really closely in the closet scene and then come back and support my "I love you" theory!)