Timeline discovery

[Penthesilea]

Penthesilea

Wow, I cannot believe that you went to all that trouble to prove wrong

You're welcome 

I am still convinced though it is two days, because to me the sheep sky is still much much lighter that the coyote/dog shy.

No problem here. My point was that it was possible to happen all in one day from the timeline. But it could also have been over two days. I don't claim to have any final answers, just my opinion (that is was in one day).

And if it is a coyote that Ennis killed and butchered, it also seems like a lot to do in one afternoon so another day still makes sense if me even if that was the case.  (Although I still think it may have been the dog)

I think five or six hours from late fore-noon to afternoon are time enough to kill and butcher a coyote. But anyway.
I don't understand the bolded sentence. What may have been the dog? Do you think that Ennis killed a dog? Or one of the dogs killed a coyote?  ??

Besides I don't see how Jack's clothes could have dried in just a couple of hours.  I had worked as a, well basically a nanny, in the Catskill mountains in NY, and I hung clothes outside to dry, and I am sure it took more that an hour or two.

Again: if Jack washes the clothes around noon (the short shadows), there's plenty of time for drying till evening. Maybe six or seven hours?

And anyway, it makes more sense to me, and I can imagine that Ennis spent two days and a whole night by himself up on the mountain, trying to understand and deal with what happened, trying to figure out what should happen next, and what he should say to Jack.

I want to imagine that Ennis spend  the night on the mountain, brooding and confused, till Jack made his way up........

I think the same about Ennis (confused, brooding, trying to figure out), just not that is was in two days.
And I think Jack would not have been able to stand it that long. I think he even couldn't stand the uncertainness for one day. He couldn't wait for Ennis to come back for supper (and maybe doubted that Ennis would come back this evening, maybe he feared that Ennis would just do what you think he did: stay up with the sheep for the night).

Great work with the pictures.

Thanks.

[moremojo]

I'm more in the one-day camp, maybe because I like that scenario better.

Me too, and one reason may be that it hurts my heart to think of the boys' physical intimacy on Brokeback being even more curtailed than I had already imagined.

[Cameron]

I think five or six hours from late fore-noon to afternoon are time enough to kill and butcher a coyote. But anyway.
I don't understand the bolded sentence. What may have been the dog? Do you think that Ennis killed a dog? Or one of the dogs killed a coyote?  ??

Hello again,

I didn't mean to bold that sentence about the dog, it was a mistake.  And no I certainly don't think that Ennis or a coyote killed the dog.  i was thinking that that it was a dog, showing him watching over Ennis resting on the mountain, and maybe no other animal was killed at all, that the tail was just the dead sheep's tail.

I had always assumed too that it was the coyote too, but still back to my original point, isn't the sky lighter with the sheep? That gave me my whole theory about the two day thing, and that maybe it was just a shot of one of the dogs watching Ennis and not a coyote at all.

I certainly understand your points about all of it,  but again I was hoping and looking for proof that it was a two day sequence.
But it certainly makes sense that Jack certainly would not wait two days and would go up the mountain that evening.

But what also started to make me sure it was two days is that I have just focused on TS 1 and which I hadn't really before, and I just realized how much of an active participant Ennis was, I didn't realize that before.

At first I was thinking that Ennis was just wondering when he left how he let himself go along with Jack and TS 1.
But then I realized how much Ennis just didn't just go along,  I finally saw how once Jack got it started Ennis really took the lead in many ways.

Realizing that  made me think that Ennis was far more confused and well I am not sure how to put this exactly but totally surprised and almost disbelieving of his own actions and passion I guess.   Thats why the two day theory makes a lot of sense to me.  He almost couldn't face Jack because he was so confused and surprised by himself, and he really needed to think about it before he could bring himself to even think of facing Jack again, so he stayed up on the mountain all night.

I hope I am making some sense, I know many of you have discussed this all before but I am still seeing new things and trying to figure it all out.

[Ellemeno]

And if it is a coyote that Ennis killed and butchered, it also seems like a lot to do in one afternoon so another day still makes sense if me even if that was the case.  (Although I still think it may have been the dog)

Besides I don't see how Jack's clothes could have dried in just a couple of hours.  I had worked as a, well basically a nanny, in the Catskill mountains in NY, and I hung clothes outside to dry, and I am sure it took more that an hour or two.

Hi Y'all, this is gross, but I can tell you from rustic living experience in my early 20s, that skinning should be done right after killing.  Granted my experience wasn't with coyotes.  We had 'em on the land, but didn't kill them.

I can picture Jack putting on not-quite-dry clothes.

Jack waited four effen' years soon after this happened - he could have waited more than one day to go see Ennis up on the mountain - but I don't think he did.

[Katie77]

Until I read this thread, I didnt realize that the scene with the "I aint queer" conversation, was actually up on the mountain with the sheep, and that obviously Jack had gone up there to see Ennis after TS1......I had always thought, that it was Ennis returning to camp that night, and walking up to Jack, who was waiting for him....

On viewing the scene again, I can see the sheep, and where the boys are, and it certainly adds another dimension to what was going on in their heads after TS1....Jack obviously needed to get into Ennis' face and confront their feelings or before the feelings might get lost and replaced with anger or embarrassment.

[Kelda]

Until I read this thread, I didnt realize that the scene with the "I aint queer" conversation, was actually up on the mountain with the sheep, and that obviously Jack had gone up there to see Ennis after TS1......I had always thought, that it was Ennis returning to camp that night, and walking up to Jack, who was waiting for him....

On viewing the scene again, I can see the sheep, and where the boys are, and it certainly adds another dimension to what was going on in their heads after TS1....Jack obviously needed to get into Ennis' face and confront their feelings or before the feelings might get lost and replaced with anger or embarrassment.

I had realsied it was upo at the sheeo - but I hadn't connected that jack shouldn't be there... oh my goodness! I need to watch the film again.. its been far too long.... (a couple of months) I'm baby sitting tonight - I may well sit down and watch it tonight!

[Katie77]

Kelda.....glad to know, I wasnt the only one, who didnt know what happened in that scene....

Reminds me of the first time I saw the film, and I didnt see the words "deceased" stamped on the postcard.....then found out, that a lot of others didnt see it either....

[Jeff Wrangler]

As some of the folks around here know, I was away visiting my dad for the weekend, and out of computer touch, but, of course, Brokeback and Bettermost are never far from my mind.  And on the train out to my dad's I was thinking about this thread and the whole question of the time from TS1 to the "I ain't queer" conversation, and from the conversation to TS2. And another perspective popped into my head.

I think it's logical, when you watch the film, to assume that TS1 happened one night, late the next day they had the conversation, and that same night--the night after TS1--TS2 occurred.

But what happened was, I started thinking of Ennis as someone just "coming out," even if that just means just beginning to have male-male sex. Clearly the foundations of his world have been rocked by TS1. He is dealing with a lot of earth-shattering emotional issues. He's always thought of himself--assumed himself--to be an ordinary straight guy, and now, omigod  , he's just had sex with another guy.

I remembered, too, the look on Ennis's face in TS2. And then the thought occurred to me: With all the issues Ennis is dealing with, maybe--just maybe--it took a couple of days after TS1 and the "I ain't queer" conversation, for Ennis's need to overcome his fear?

A passage of a couple of days would at least, perhaps, allow for the apparent change in weather between the "I ain't queer" conversation and TS2 that has always troubled me.

Along with this, I got to wondering whether Ennis's closed eyes in TS2 is the film's equivalent of the line in the story, in Jack's dozy embrace reminiscence, about Ennis not then being willing to admit it was Jack he embraced.

[Katie77]

As some of the folks around here know, I was away visiting my dad for the weekend, and out of computer touch, but, of course, Brokeback and Bettermost are never far from my mind.  And on the train out to my dad's I was thinking about this thread and the whole question of the time from TS1 to the "I ain't queer" conversation, and from the conversation to TS2. And another perspective popped into my head.

I

First of all Jeff, I'm glad I'm not the only one, who dwells on some of these threads, when I'm driving, or just sitting quietly.....

And, yes, I think sometimes we forget, how mind boggling the experience in TS1 would have been for Ennis, and that its quite probable that TS2 was a few days at least afterward.

[Cameron]

Hi Jeff and Katie and all

I am glad your starting to see my viewpoint.

It just makes so much sense to me that it was too days, expecially when I think of how Ennis started to with Jack, not being able to make eye contact till TS 1.  Especially when I realized how active he was.

It just seems to me that he really needed that time to understand and come to terms with his own actions and feelings, and he wouldn't have been able to face Jack the same day.

And for some reason I just think it fits and make sense, that Ennis spend the night all by himself out on the mountain.

And then he was finally ready to speak to Jack, and go into the tent in TS2.