Author Topic: What did they really mean......  (Read 5128 times)

Offline Ladyeve

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Re: What did they really mean......
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2007, 09:54:48 am »
penthesilas, I agree with you.

Jack and Ennis was caught in their own trap.  The love they had for each other, and the battle between each other for a life together.   

At various times in their relationship declarations were always being made, but still they couldn't stay away from each other.

Remember on the mountain after the first night encounter,  When Ennis told  Jack (I think more for himself), that this was a "one shot deal" and Jack replying "Its no body business but ours"  this is where I think the battle for their love started.  Just remember in all those years neither ever raised a white flag.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What did they really mean......
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2007, 11:27:55 am »
Just remember in all those years neither ever raised a white flag.

I'm with U on that Ladyeve! The closest they ever came was when Jack said "I wish I could quit you" but he knew he never could.
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Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: What did they really mean......
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2007, 02:57:47 pm »
Jack and Ennis was caught in their own trap.  The love they had for each other, and the battle between each other for a life together.   

At various times in their relationship declarations were always being made, but still they couldn't stay away from each other.

Remember on the mountain after the first night encounter,  When Ennis told  Jack (I think more for himself), that this was a "one shot deal" and Jack replying "Its no body business but ours"  this is where I think the battle for their love started.  Just remember in all those years neither ever raised a white flag.

I think the dialogue deleted about "licking this" and the protestations in general about one's sexuality and who was responsible for what is very familiar to a lot of gay men.  Back in 1986 when I was 19, I had my first sexual experience.  I'm sure dealing with my sexuality in the Reagan 80's was not as easy as it might be these days, but I'm also sure it was a lot easier for me than it would have been in the mountain west of the 1960s.  By that time in my life, I would have been far closer to Jack Twist in how I could handle my sexuality - I realized it was there but saw no need to dwell on it.  Acting on it and not having regrets after the fact would be about right for me, but for the other guy I was with, it was much closer to Ennis all the way.  He was there for the experience, but afterwards the denial about what it meant, the lack of interest in -any- words about it, and then even protestations that he didn't "need it."  Right up until the point he did it again.  Rinse and repeat.

Listening to Ennis, and reading the suggested screenplay, made this all very familiar for me.  The guilt surrounding a lot of gay men who surrender to their completely natural sexual and emotional needs only to punish themselves for it after the fact is tragic and so completely unnecessary.  But for a lot of people who are surrounded by people who suggest moral codes (which more often than not end up exposing them as hypocrites when they cannot practice what they preach), they feel utterly helpless to control the things in their lives which others will regularly condemn.

For Ennis, expectations for his life were no doubt laid before him growing up and his plan was to simply follow that plan.  It's no surprise to me that he completely feared being outed, which is probably a good reason he was so withdrawn and closed-mouthed to begin with.  What if he ever said something or acted "that way."

Jack had enough self-confidence to keep pushing forward, even when he realized he fell short (and sometimes he never realized it).  Ennis never tried until the final moments of the film when he had his moment of clarity sufficient to realize what he ultimately had lost.  To me, the whole thing was tragic, but was necessary to slam home the impact this film had on so many people.  It was a driving reason for me to -act- by finding a way to start a community where people who visited realize they don't have to follow in those footsteps, that there are alternatives, and it's never too late to make a change.
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