Am I Nuts???

[DeeDee]

You can't really see Jacks arm because it looks like there is a comforter over them.  What I did notice, is the slight twitch of Ennis' mouth.. To me, that represents a restless sleep.
Maybe I'm reaching,  but I'm always looking for new things.

[Sheyne]

My take on this is similar to Mandy I's, (littleguitar), with a little of Katherine's (latjoreme) too. I feel sad when I see that this is all they get for their last night. It's realistic I think (though I know that in the book they are having sex by the campfire and they don't show it in the movie, sadly.) I am glad to see it's Ennis, at last, with his arm around Jack, but there is not peace to me in this scene. And I really differ from some of you in that I think Ennis is frowning, very clearly. So, it's a mixed bag for me. I would love to know about the Jack thing, his arm that is. I still haven't caught that hand holding in the first tent scene!

Jenny

I agree Jenny..  Ennis IS frowning - you can see at least 2, perhaps 3 lines on his forehead. And there is a subtle tension here, I can't put my finger on it. I wish they had shown that last scene by the campfire myself    but it would play against the "never enough time, never enough" contention of Jack's the following morning.

Have you checked out the You Tube video yet, Jenny?  The hand-holding is quite clear on that one - refer back to the "saw the hand holdin" thread for more info and explanations of what to look for and where.

Cheers,
S.

[isabelle]

And I really differ from some of you in that I think Ennis is frowning, very clearly. So, it's a mixed bag for me. I would love to know about the Jack thing, his arm that is. I still haven't caught that hand holding in the first tent scene!

Jenny

Hi Jenny,
In fact I think I was misunderstood, because what I meant was that Ennis IS frowning, and I hadn't noticed before! And I find this passage sad too.

[serious crayons]

Well, I just watched that scene pretty much frame-by-frame on YouTube (I don't own a DVD), and I can't see anything in that little moment itself that suggests unhappiness or discontent. I suppose you could point to the fact that they're wearing clothes, but we know that it's cold. They look content to me. And Ennis' arm over Jack seems completely affectionate. I think my sadness regarding the scene is caused by what I know comes immediately before and after it.

[Ellemeno]

Thank you for this good thread, friends.

I tend to feel angry/irked with Ennis when he withholds from Jack his expression of love.   So when Jack says, "Truth is sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it," and Ennis says nothing at all back, I start getting pissed off at Ennis.  And then when I see him holding Jack while Jack is asleep, I think "Why can't you show him that tenderness when he's awake?" And I hope that Jack can be aware of the holding, but worry that he's sleeping through it and missing it.

My annoyance with Ennis around his not responding to Jack's "Truth is..." speech was mitigated when I realized (through someone here pointing it out) that when Jack says those powerful words of yearning and pain, Ennis must feel piles and piles of guilt and dread, because he already knows that they won't be seeing each other til November, but still hasn't told Jack yet.  So, as always, my annoyance with Ennis melts into "Poor Ennis," for his plight.

As to Jack's arm, it looks like maybe it could be as you propose, Sheyne.  And who knows, we just see that they are wearing shirts.  Who knows what their pants are doing.  Maybe they fell asleep with Jack pulling Ennis close in.

P.S. That's my favorite shirt of Ennis's.  He wears it in the truck scene with Alma Jr. too.  It looks like it has feathers on it.  Ooo!  Must go to bird thread and post that observation.

[Front-Ranger]

Good observation, Ellemeno! I hope you will mention the shirt on the "buckets and birds" thread! I started to notice the references to Jack as like a horse during crucial scenes, but the only reference to Ennis being like a bird that I found so far was when he was lying "spread eagled" on the bed in the motel scene.

Now that I have had the chance to alternate reading the short story with watching the DVD, it's interesting how Ennis is portrayed much more as the "unattainable object of love" in the movie. This makes us so frustrated at the unfairness to Jack but adds to the dramatic tension, I guess. The story is much more about two men who stand together against the world, while the film is more about Jack against Ennis, the world, and everything. Even his father-in-law and wife, who are more neutral in the story. It almost verges on being unbelievable that the whole world would be against this beautiful and lovable person! (I railed on that topic some more in my "Jack was maligned unfairly" thread on IMDB, now safely archived here.) Whenever watching the movie gets me down too much, I go back and read the story. It helps.

[ednbarby]

Excellent point, F-R.  I have that problem with the movie versus the story, too - I find it almost unbearable that *everyone* could be against that beautiful person to some extent or another.  Not unbelievable, actually, but unbearable.  And I think you've touched on why I was so devastated on my second viewing of the movie - much moreso than I was on my first.  I think a second viewing is necessary to really *see* Jack.  At least it was for me.  To see how almost angelic he is - how much he sacrifices, and how he finally makes the ultimate sacrifice for/because of his beloved.  The same thing happened to my husband on his second viewing the other night - he actually wept openly during the entire Lightning Flat visit whereas he barely got misty the first time he saw it in January - I'll have to ask him why he thinks that is.  Most likely in his very Ennis-like way, he'll say next to nothing in response.     But it's still worth a shot, right?

And I, too, noticed the frowning and the quivering lips on Ennis in the final tent scene.  I had before thought of him as sleeping peacefully with Jack, but I realize that would be out of keeping with his character and with what we know he's going to have to tell Jack in the morning, so of course his sleep would be fitful.  And yes, it makes me deeply, deeply sad.

[serious crayons]

I tend to feel angry/irked with Ennis when he withholds from Jack his expression of love.   So when Jack says, "Truth is sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it," and Ennis says nothing at all back, I start getting pissed off at Ennis.  And then when I see him holding Jack while Jack is asleep, I think "Why can't you show him that tenderness when he's awake?" And I hope that Jack can be aware of the holding, but worry that he's sleeping through it and missing it.

My annoyance with Ennis around his not responding to Jack's "Truth is..." speech was mitigated when I realized (through someone here pointing it out) that when Jack says those powerful words of yearning and pain, Ennis must feel piles and piles of guilt and dread, because he already knows that they won't be seeing each other til November, but still hasn't told Jack yet.  So, as always, my annoyance with Ennis melts into "Poor Ennis," for his plight.

I think both of these issues -- Ennis' unresponsiveness to Jack's "truth is" statement, and what the flung arm indicates -- are examples of this movie's agonizing ambiguity. Personally, whenever there are two ways to interpret something, one happier and one sadder, I tend to grasp at the happy one, because there's enough sadness already.

So my interpretation is that when Ennis turns from Jack and looks quietly troubled, he is thinking about the news he has to break. And his arm flung over Jack is a sign that they were intimate earlier, and that they still have a good physical relationship, whether Jack's awake or not.

But I can see how you could go the other way with these.

[Front-Ranger]

Excellent point, F-R.  I have that problem with the movie versus the story, too - I find it almost unbearable that *everyone* could be against that beautiful person to some extent or another.  Not unbelievable, actually, but unbearable.  And I think you've touched on why I was so devastated on my second viewing of the movie - much moreso than I was on my first.  I think a second viewing is necessary to really *see* Jack.  At least it was for me.  To see how almost angelic he is - how much he sacrifices, and how he finally makes the ultimate sacrifice for/because of his beloved. 

The way you so eloquently describe it, Barb, makes me think of the idea of the boddhisatva, the angel-like being who gives up everlasting nirvana in order to help other humans achieve enlightenment. Hopefully his sacrifice helped Ennis understand himself at last and led to the small epiphany that he had to go to Alma, Jr.'s wedding. Who knows, maybe he met somebody new at the wedding? One can dream.

[serious crayons]

Who knows, maybe he met somebody new at the wedding? One can dream.

Well, that would be better than nothing because Ennis would be less lonely. But the new guy wouldn't be Jack, so it would be kind of like Jack finding happiness with Randall rather than Ennis: Unsatisfying. (And I'm afraid I doubt Ennis would go for it anyway.)