Author Topic: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?  (Read 87257 times)

Offline David In Indy

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2006, 09:17:48 pm »
Sorry about the long rambling dissertation.  Ugh. 

For me, it was like the world stopped for a split second when JFK was shot.  So many people can say where they were when he was assassinated.  Just like with 9/11. I'm almost the same age as JFK Jr., and when he died I felt as if I had lost a friend, almost a brother.  Kind of stupid to feel that way, but we had grown up together albeit in different "worlds". 

I think it's very cool that you knew Kirstie Alley and that she's the one who gave you the news.  Thanks for sharing!

~Larz

I know this sounds weird because I was just a toddler when President Kennedy was shot. But I do remember it. I remember I was sitting on the floor on a blanket, and mom's laundry basket was sitting across from me. Mom was ironing and the phone rang. It was Dad and he apparently told her about the assasination and Mom became hysterical. Mom use to tell me I didn' remember it and I was confusing it with something else. But to this day, I do believe I remember it. It is one of my earliest memories.
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Offline ZouBEini

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2006, 09:29:51 pm »
I know this sounds weird because I was just a toddler when President Kennedy was shot. But I do remember it. I remember I was sitting on the floor on a blanket, and mom's laundry basket was sitting across from me. Mom was ironing and the phone rang. It was Dad and he apparently told her about the assasination and Mom became hysterical. Mom use to tell me I didn' remember it and I was confusing it with something else. But to this day, I do believe I remember it. It is one of my earliest memories.

I believe you, David.  As I mentioned (in the rambly post up there) it was truly my first memory.  A few years ago I mentioned it to my mother and she had forgotten where she was at the time but later confirmed it with my aunt, who had been in the car with us.  My cousin was only three and doesn't remember it at all.  I wonder if you and I remember it because of how upset our mothers were.

~Larz

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2006, 01:52:37 am »
I think that's why I do! Only it wasn't my mother, it was my second-grade teacher. I'd never seen a teacher crying before.  :'(

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2006, 07:10:24 am »
I think that's why I do! Only it wasn't my mother, it was my second-grade teacher. I'd never seen a teacher crying before.  :'(

Exactly!  That's just it - it was as if the adults were incapacitated by grief and shock - obliviious to everything else, even if for a short while. 

I once saw a movie (name unknown) in which they showed the shooting and ensuing pandemonium in Dallas, followed by the announcements, and adults standing on the streets watching televisions through the store window.  Men and women were crying in the streets while their children looked on, not understanding what would upset their adults so much.  The film captured it perfectly from my perspective, though I now understand some people rejoiced, since JFK was pro-racial equality, a Democrat and Catholic. 

To me, it was a detour from hope; the end of the dream that was Camelot.  Don't get me wrong - LJB did well in his own way, and I believe me meant well and was a good man, but I often wonder what the world would be like today had JFK remained in office.

~Larz

Offline fontaine

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2006, 11:20:56 am »
I was 17 in 1963 (a 60-year old straight female) and lived on the east coast where things were different than in the rural west. However, my parents best friends were two gay men--Jim & Bill. Everyone just referred to them as "the bachelors" which to me simply meant two guys who weren't married and were roommates. I don't remember anyone in the neighborhood who were all friends ever leaving them out or saying anything strange about them. Nor did being "bachelors" connote anything other than being unmarried--at least as far as I ever knew. I don't even remember any smirks or innuendos that made me wonder. Maybe it would have been different if they hadn't been such nice and friendly people. I don't know.

We moved to Maryland in the DC area when I was 9 in a garden apartment and Jim and Bill were neighbors. When we bought a house a few miles away, the house across the street was for rent and Bill and Jim rented it. So, they were family friends from '55 until Jim finally married in about '61. It wasn't until I was in college that my parents told me they were gay. Bill eventually moved back to Mississippi where he was from. I found his number and called him about 10 years ago and he'd been married for 25 years by then. I don't know what the deal was and neither I nor my parents cared. Nor did anyone else seem to.

Bill was my "go to" guy when I was a teenager. I could talk to him when I couldn't talk to my parents. Jim and Bill were always like family and often spent holidays--especially Thanksgiving--with us. Given that my Father, in particular, was from the south and regularly used the "N" word (although I never saw him do or say an unkind word to a black person), apparently neither of my parents were prejudiced against gays, nor did I get the sense that any of their friends were either because Jim and Bill were always included in all the social activities of the community.

I think I was very lucky in having grown up in such an accepting environment. However, it was also more of a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing. But people back then didn't air their personal laundry about anything--at least in groups. They did talk about their problems in private to their close friends, but not in public. It just wasn't done.

As for the times, people were more repressed in a way but things were also far more civil. People conformed more to traditions except the artistis. It was expected for them to be more "out there." There was next to no social integration along racial lines but not along educational or employment ones--at least not to the same degree. I remember my prejudiced father going up the chain of command to get one of his draftsman--a black man--a raise. I thought it odd given how prejudiced my father was but when I asked him about it, he said the guy could be purple for all he cared, he had earned the raise, and by damned, my Father was going to make sure he got it because fair was fair. And he did get it for him. By the same token, my father would never have invited this guy to a social event. Society was much more statified, especially along racial and "social class" lines but it was also much less contentious.

By the late 60s, however, all that changed. I suspect it began with Kennedy's assassination. The only thing to compare it to in terms of its impact on the country was 9/11. The entire country was in deep mourning, I don't remember anyone rejoicing about it. And even if they had, the media would never have covered it. Living in the DC area, my best friend's father took us down to the capitol and we stood in line and walked through the rotunda to pay our respects. The line and crowd were enormous and everyone was crying. There was a hopefulness in the country throughout his presidency that died when he did. Things began to change after that and by '67, the country had changed dramatically.

It was certainly fun being a part of the Woodstock generation! I wonder, however, what has happened to all those former hippies: "peace, love, and rock and roll!" It seems that far too many of them have turned into judgmental neocons. Maybe they'd have remained more tolerant had they kept smoking pot and been able to see the possibilities life had to offer!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 11:31:26 am by fontaine »

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2006, 08:28:58 pm »
Hello Fontaine, I wish I had lived near you!  The midwest, at least in small burgs and towns wasn't nearly as accepting.  Sad really.

It's great to get different peoples' views of things back then.  I enjoyed reading your story - thanks!   ;D

~Larz

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2006, 10:56:03 am »
The midwest, at least in small burgs and towns wasn't nearly as accepting.  Sad really.

Not necessarily! Here's another happy story:

My aunt Susan, my dad's sister, now 70-something, has lived with another woman as long as I've been alive.  Susan and Dorothy like to fish, so they lived in a nice lakeside cabin on the far fringe of a big metropolitan area -- call it the exurbs, I guess -- though both held fairly high-powered, high-paying jobs in the city. My dads's family is a very friendly group, and everyone has always treated Dorothy exactly the same friendly way they treat all the other spouses. I couldn't vouch that all of my relatives are perfectly open-minded about homosexuality in general; some probably aren't. But they've never let it affect the way they treat Susan and Dorothy.

Still, nobody in the family ever talked about the nature of the women's relationship. As a kid, I just figured they was good friends who lived together simply because they hadn't found husbands. Then in my late teens, I finally got it, and asked my mom whether they were gay. (My mom and dad were long divorced by then.) My mom said she had never heard anybody mention it one way or the other.

After they retired, Susan and Dorothy moved to Dorothy's hometown -- a tiny Midwestern farm town -- and bought a big Victorian house and filled it with antiques, fixed it up real nice. Their status as a couple, though still never discussed openly, began to seem a bit more tacitly understood.

And here's the part I love. Not long after they'd arrived, my aunt decided to run for mayor. Though a newcomer to the town, Susan ran against the incumbent -- and won! Served several terms. From what I gather, she was a great mayor.

Now, Susan is extremely personable and funny and smart. I was always proud of her for this. But I was also proud of the little town, and of the Midwest. Though it might have been possible back in the '60s and '70s to just take Susan and Dorothy as roommates and leave it at that, by the '90s I don't think you could meet them without wondering if, maybe even assuming, they're lesbians. Yet they are popular and active in the town's social life (understandably; as I say they're really likable). Whatever prejudices the residents of this little town might have, they didn't let them become an issue in their relationship with Susan and Dorothy.

Susan and Dorothy have since moved out of their big Victorian house into a smaller but comfy townhouse. They spend winters in the Southwest, and have decorated their new home in Southwestern style. They travel a lot throughout the year -- they have made it their goal to visit all of the presidential libraries. They live a sweet life!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 10:58:18 am by latjoreme »

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2006, 11:19:45 am »
What a great story! I wonder if it could have been the same for a male couple.
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Offline ZouBEini

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2006, 10:33:06 pm »
What a great story! I wonder if it could have been the same for a male couple.

I was thinking the same thing, Front-Ranger.

latjoreme, in general - what part of the country was this?  Sounds like some of the east is more open-minded than the midwest farm areas at that time.  Now I'm curious. 

LOL - let's map it out, shall we?   :D

~Larz

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Question of Time: What Was Life Like in 1963?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2006, 10:43:20 pm »
latjoreme, in general - what part of the country was this?  Sounds like some of the east is more open-minded than the midwest farm areas at that time.  Now I'm curious. 

Hi Larz! Susan and Dorothy initially lived in the exurbs of Miinneapolis. They moved to a small town in Iowa, near the Minnesota border. So, definitely Midwest farm area ... although Minnesota is very blue-state and, in general, usually pretty socially liberal as well. Iowa, not as much.

But as you and Front-Ranger note, it's quite possible that two men might have had a different experience than my aunt and Dorothy.

Katherine