Author Topic: Did anyone else notice this  (Read 7218 times)

vkm91941

  • Guest
Did anyone else notice this
« on: April 16, 2006, 06:07:10 pm »
My 12 year old  asked me this and I thought it might be a good discussion topic...I see someone else posted something similar on the main board at IMDb.......

Did anyone notice in this film that there were no scenes that showed Ennis with any male friends beside Jack? Do you think his father made him so homophobic when he was young that he could never relate to other guys?  Is there something to this? Is his homophobia the reason he was isolated from all men?   What do you  think?

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2006, 06:12:03 pm »
Hiya Vickie,

Yep, we noticed.  There used to be a thread on the big board a while back, forgot the name.

Jack obviously had 'friends' ("Jack kept all his friends addresses in his head"), but while I can't say if Ennis had any close friends or not, he was close to SOME guys ("I can try to get Don Wroe's cabin again...").  Ennis had to know this guy well enough for him to lend Ennis his hunting cabin.

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 06:24:04 pm »
Hi Victoria!

I also remember back on the old imdb board there was a very touching discussion about Ennis's lack of friends, especially when thinking about his comments to Lureen on the phone.  When he says "we were good friends" it breaks you heart because (1) it's a huge understatement (if he could be free with his language he'd say something like "he was the love of my life") and (2) because it does highlight that Ennis lost his only real friend.

We've all noted repeatedly that Jack is the only person (other than his daughters maybe) who can get Ennis to smile and relax.  Ennis jokes, laughs, becomes somewhat chatty (for him at least) and tells Jack his deepest secrets. He decides to make Jack his confidant during the "that's the most I spoke in a year" conversation.  Maybe even earlier, actually.  Maybe he decided right from the beginning at the bar when he told Jack about his parents dying.  But, he makes it even more clear when he tells Jack about not having had the opportunity to lose his virginity yet.  That's pretty private and personal stuff.  And, of course the Earl story is his worst and most painful memory and he allows Jack to comfort him by stroking his cheek.  So, yes, Jack is his deep, deep friend as well as lover.

I think Ennis's status in his normal, daily life in town (away from Jack and the mountains) he's paralyzed by his fear of being outed, of homophobia and of violence.  I think this fear manifests itself in his posture, his silence, his stoicism.  Really, everything that makes him look like a classic cowboy on the outside, are also the same characteristics that stand as physical manifestations of his fear and insecurity. That's really interesting when you think about it.  Yeah, I think there are lots of moments when we see Ennis alone in town.  He's alone at the bar when he meets Cassie.  He's alone again eating his pie in the bus station when Cassie confronts him towards the end.  I'm sure Ennis would find it very stressful to have friends as sad as that is. His main concern is to hide.

But the point about Don Wroe is a good one.  It's nice to think that he wasn't completely isolated.

Oh, poor Ennis.   :'( :-\
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 06:36:24 pm »
How very true!     

    Jack was not just Ennis's lover, but his best friend.   Note how he told Jack about the divorce too.  This was big news in his life.   Granted Jack got the wrong signal from that, but it does show that Ennis needed to tell someone.

   On a personal note:  The Ennis in my life was the same way.   He didn't have any male friends other than me.     I know he is saddened by my choice to distance myself from him.   His wife sent me a Birthday card to which I had to acknowledge.   He emailed me back with :"Yea, I thought the card was cute.
 
No problem, It seems strange not talking to you."


Talk about a man of few words!   So like Ennis it is scary!

Quitting someone is harder than you think.   Sigh.  :-\
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 10:03:48 pm by DavidinHartford »

vkm91941

  • Guest
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 10:00:11 pm »

but while I can't say if Ennis had any close friends or not, he was close to SOME guys ("I can try to get Don Wroe's cabin again...").  Ennis had to know this guy well enough for him to lend Ennis his hunting cabin.

Yea will I can see Ennis connecting in a co-worker kind of way with other men, like this Don Wroe but that's not friendship.  Jack was Ennis only friend I thnk
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 12:25:15 am by vkm91941 »

vkm91941

  • Guest
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 01:25:41 am »
and think of this...he would never hear his name spoken by another human being..no one would speak of him because no one knew him...for the rest of his life.   

Jack would live only in Ennis' mind...the dreams talked about in the short story were so moving, so real that he would either come or wake in tears..............

Ennis  lived in his dreams and slept through his days after Jake died....Maybe he always had, living for the time he snatched with Jack, his only happiness and existed the rest of the time in a kind of limbo of work and child support until the next time he could get away to be with Jack. 

Really emphasises the tragedy of Ennis's life.

Offline hermitdave

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • changed forever by brokeback...
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 01:27:46 am »
 :'(
"Whenever Im alone with you, you make me feel like I am whole again. Whenever Im alone with you, you make me feel like I am young again." - The Cure

Offline Sheyne

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • I am pretty good with a canoe tho..
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 01:55:34 am »

Victoria, you actually made me cry with what you wrote. I think I'm only starting to sift through the layers of this cloud that has settled over me since seeing Brokeback.  The tragedy of Ennis's life is only a small part of that cloud. The way you put it, the way you explained it just brought another flood of emotion..

I needed this cry, so i wanted to say thanks, but god, don't you wish things had been different for these boys??  :'( :'(
Chut up!

vkm91941

  • Guest
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 03:26:03 am »
but god, don't you wish things had been different for these boys??  :'( :'(

Oh Sheyne I'm so pathetic about it that everytime I watch it I hope till the end that it will turn out different this time... :-\

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: Did anyone else notice this
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 06:37:05 am »
Along these same lines, I always find it particularly poignant when Lureen says to Ennis, "I thought it was someplace to drink.  Jack drank a lot."  That last bit stabs me in the heart.  My mother turned to drinking to self-medicate after the love of her life, my father, left her when I was 2.  It took a few years, but by the time I was in kindegarten, she was a full-fledged alcoholic.  It makes me picture him in the house with Lureen and Bobby at night after work, missing Ennis so much he can hardly stand it, pouring himself one whiskey shot after another (I don't think he'd just pull on the bottle in front of Lureen) until he stumbled to bed drunk.

And I agree with Victoria that Don Wroe was a co-worker, not a friend, to Ennis.  I kind of see him as a boss, really, which would delineate them even further.  I figure he owns/owned a ranch Ennis worked on.  I could see a ranch owner a) having the money to own a hunting/fishing cabin and b) offering it to Ennis because he's his hardest worker and seems to be the type who likes his solitude.  I agree that Ennis had no other male friends than Jack, partly because of his homophobia and fear of people thinking it was something else, and partly because Jack was all the friend he needed.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 07:10:59 am by ednbarby »
No more beans!