Author Topic: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?  (Read 16729 times)

Offline RouxB

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Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« on: April 17, 2006, 01:20:31 am »
Just noticed-after 50 zillion viewings-the door on the truck that delivers Ennis to Signal says "Sage". I've always wondered where he was coming and how he ends up in Riverton. And how Alma fits into all this. Thoughts? Anyone?

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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2006, 06:48:56 am »
I don't have the answer but I have wondered about this, too. He said he was at a ranch in Worland with his brother, then his brother got married "that's how I ended up here." I have assumed that Alma is from Riverton b/c her sister seems to be close by so I just decided that Alma and her family lived in/near Riverton. But how/where did Ennis meet Alma? Plus, they had to have dated a bit to get to the point of being engaged. When/where did that occur? I've sometimes thought that maybe in his "year of high school" he went to school in Riverton and met her there? (The school was an hour away--he had to drive and dropped out when the truck broke down).

By the same token, he came off the mountain in August and got married in November. Where did he go for those four months? I'm assuming Riverton, since that's where Alma was. Did he live at the ranch where he was working until he got married? Who knows...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 09:03:31 am by lnicoll »
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2006, 07:09:51 am »
I've also kinda wondered this. For those who own it, does the screenplay give any clues?
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006, 07:10:53 am »
I've also kinda wondered this. For those who own it, does the screenplay give any clues?

No, it doesn't.
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Offline opinionista

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 08:01:52 am »
The short story says Ennis was from around Sage. At one scene where Ennis and Jack are sharing a whiskey by the fire, Jack asks Ennis if his brother has treated him well. Ennis tells him about his brother and sister raising him, about his sister marrying, and moving to Casper. Perhaps Ennis went to Casper from time to time to see his sister, and somewhere along he met Alma. Also, Ennis got into ranch work early in his youth and from what I can tell from the story, ranch hands move from county to county looking for a job, so maybe that's how Ennis met Alma.

Another possibility could be that Alma was also from Sage, and wanted to move to Riverton because her sister was already there, or mayber her sister followed her to Riverton.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 09:18:18 am »
Wow, am I completely blind? LOL!

I never noticed the writing on the cattle truck--I'm always focusing on Ennis.

I doubt he would have had his year of high school in Riverton. It seems too far from Sage, though I admit I don't have the story with me here to "check the mileage" or my atlas to check the map. (Yes, perhaps one of the goofier things I did in reaction to BBM was buy a brand-new road atlas just after Christmas in order to have a decent map of Wyoming!)

Something else I don't remember anyone really commenting on was, How did Ennis and Jack end up at Joe Aguirre's trailer? We know 1963 was Jack's second summer on the mountain, so I've assumed, without really thinking about it, that he had worked for Aguirre in 1962. The original AP story tells us that Ennis and Jack had signed up with Farm and Ranch Employment--which sounds like some kind of employment agency--and that they "came together on paper" as herder and camp tender, so I've always assumed they had both been told to report to Joe Aguirre in Signal on thus-and-such a date.
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 09:32:02 am »
Google maps can't even find Sage, WY. Someone posted pictures of it on TOB and it looked like a ghost town. There is also no Signal WY (but I think I read somewhere that Signal was a made-up place).

Worland to Riverton is 88 miles.
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Offline fernly

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 09:35:57 am »
This may sound like it belongs in the 'confess your most irrational reaction' thread, but it was for a story, so I'll  keep believing both my feet are on the sane side of the county line....
I checked into high schools near to Sage, and the two closest are Kemmerer High School in Diamondville, and Cokeville High School in Cokeville. Kemmerer looks to be the best bet I think.

Sage is/was just east of the junction of  Hwys. 30 and 89.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 09:42:04 am by fernly »
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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 09:40:52 am »
I recall from the story that Ennis was from Sage, down near the border with Colorado. As far as how he met Alma, I theorize that they met at church. We know that Ennis parents' were Methodist, and Alma is a church-going woman. Also at the end Alma Jr.'s wedding is going to be at the Methodist church. Ennis and Alma might have met at a get-together of Methodists sometime. I also wonder if their marriage might have been arranged by Ennis' siblings. Noticing that he wasn't naturally attracted to girls and wanting to have him settled so he wouldn't get in any trouble, they might have forced the two together. Ennis, being dutiful and never expecting to have a say in his own destiny, would have just followed along.
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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 10:19:46 am »
I recall from the story that Ennis was from Sage, down near the border with Colorado. As far as how he met Alma, I theorize that they met at church. We know that Ennis parents' were Methodist, and Alma is a church-going woman. Also at the end Alma Jr.'s wedding is going to be at the Methodist church. Ennis and Alma might have met at a get-together of Methodists sometime. I also wonder if their marriage might have been arranged by Ennis' siblings. Noticing that he wasn't naturally attracted to girls and wanting to have him settled so he wouldn't get in any trouble, they might have forced the two together. Ennis, being dutiful and never expecting to have a say in his own destiny, would have just followed along.
Hi, just wanted to add that Sage is actually closer to the Utah border; Proulx mentions this in the short story. Lightning Flat, incidentally, is very near the Montana border, so Ennis and Jack came from practically opposite ends of the state. Riverton, though not exactly central, is more or less a midway point between these two places--perhaps there's some geographical symbolism at work here. It's interesting that the two most prominent communities in Wyoming, Cheyenne and Laramie, are never mentioned.

And yes, as someone mentioned above, Signal, and beautiful, lonely Brokeback Mountain itself, are both fictional places.

Regards,
Scott
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 10:35:05 am by moremojo »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 10:31:15 am »
I recall from the story that Ennis was from Sage, down near the border with Colorado. As far as how he met Alma, I theorize that they met at church. We know that Ennis parents' were Methodist, and Alma is a church-going woman. Also at the end Alma Jr.'s wedding is going to be at the Methodist church. Ennis and Alma might have met at a get-together of Methodists sometime. I also wonder if their marriage might have been arranged by Ennis' siblings. Noticing that he wasn't naturally attracted to girls and wanting to have him settled so he wouldn't get in any trouble, they might have forced the two together. Ennis, being dutiful and never expecting to have a say in his own destiny, would have just followed along.

Interesting and plausible scenario for how Ennis and Alma met! Ennis was probably kind of socially inept--he may not even have realized that he wasn't all that attracted to girls (I was older than he was when he met Jack before I "figured it out"). It wouldn't surprise me at all if his brother's wife or his sister's husband knew "this nice girl named Alma Beers" and kind of threw the two of them together. The only concern I'd have about them meeting through church was that Ennis doesn't seem to have been much of a church-goer. Remember that rude comment about the "fire and brimstone crowd"?

Sage is pretty much where AP says it is, just about on the Utah line. If I could ask AP questions, one would be whether Signal is totally made-up, a fictionalized version of one particular town in Wyoming, or a fictionalized composite of a number of small Wyoming towns.

Anybody know whether Signal figures in any of AP's other Wyoming stories?
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2006, 10:46:43 am »


Interesting and plausible scenario for how Ennis and Alma met! Ennis was probably kind of socially inept--he may not even have realized that he wasn't all that attracted to girls (I was older than he was when he met Jack before I "figured it out"). It wouldn't surprise me at all if his brother's wife or his sister's husband knew "this nice girl named Alma Beers" and kind of threw the two of them together. The only concern I'd have about them meeting through church was that Ennis doesn't seem to have been much of a church-goer. Remember that rude comment about the "fire and brimstone crowd"?


Well, just like it takes time for people to figure out their sexuality, I also think it takes time for people to figure out religion. I went to church and Sunday school, dutifully, for years before I finally "figgered" that one out. (I don't go anymore, for anyone who's interested.)

Also--if Ennis was going to church with his brother and sister, that may have been another source of his homophobia (it didn't come only from his father). Also, his "fire and brimstone" comment may have been a very subtle rejection of what they had taught him about him. Just a thought..
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Offline opinionista

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 03:27:26 pm by opinionista »
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Offline RouxB

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2006, 01:08:33 pm »
Good map Opinionista! Worland, Casper, the fictional Signal seem to be within a hundred mile range of Riverton-Sage and Ligning Flat maybe within 200-250 miles?. Until I saw the door on the truck I figured Ennis to be coming from wherever he and his brother had lived together. Maybe when the brother married, Ennis went back to Sage until this job came along.

 O0

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Offline Kd5000

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 01:36:46 pm »
A marriage of convenience for Ennis. He related to Jack that is brotehr got married and there was no room for him.  Meeting at church thing sounds  plausbile to me. 

His siblings subsituted for his parents and his brother probably strongly advised, (i.e. cutting the strings now that your 18), it's time for you to make it on in the world. Best thing you could do would be to settle down with this nice girl.

Brokeback Mountain was in the BigHorns. Am I  correct? Jack tells his wife he goes fishing way up there in Wy because the Big Horns aren't in Texas. Good excuse.

Worldand was very close to the Big Horns Mtns per my map. They occup the Northcentral part of WYoming.  50 miles from Riverton.  I just guessed that Signal would be a "bleek your eye miss it sorta place" in the vicinity of Worland.   A jumping off place.

Offline David

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2006, 02:03:52 pm »
I had kinda wondered how Ennis met Alma.    Ennis is such a shy, introverted guy.  Alma must have pursued him.  Maybe he was at the Riverton Grocery store when she spotted him?

Offline David

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2006, 02:06:49 pm »
Oh, one more thing.   There is a Signal Mountain near Jackson lake, over on the Idaho side.

Offline Lumière

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2006, 02:27:28 pm »
I always sorta thought to myself that Ennis and Alma met in High school or something...and because he was so shy, his brother and sister might have had a hand in encouraging him to settle down with such a 'nice girl'.  Also, like David said, there is also a possibility that Alma pursued him, she clearly loved him from the start.

I have also never seen the writing on the door of the truck that Ennis gets out of in the beginning - nothing except Ennis exists in that scene, the way he hesitates abit, puts on his jacket and adjusts the collar, with a brown paper bag in his hand (holding all his worldly possessions probably)..*sigh*


Offline Kd5000

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2006, 02:33:57 pm »
That's interesting about a Signal Mountain near Jackson lake. Will have to consult my map. Though it doesn't label mountains unless their unsually high.

By thew wayt what does Alma see in Ennis? He doesn't have any money, career prospects, etc etc, a good provider, in pre-womens lib world... Then again, expectations of life might have been different in rural America in 1963.

She was in love with him, even after the divorce, I belive Michelle Williams said Monroe was just a substitute.  Love I suppose is the reason she wanted to marry  him and then hopes he gets a good paying job working in the oilfields or a job with the power company.  Probably she didn't expect him to want to be a ranch-hand all his life. 


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2006, 02:39:46 pm »
Brokeback Mountain was in the BigHorns. Am I  correct? Jack tells his wife he goes fishing way up there in Wy because the Big Horns aren't in Texas. Good excuse.

Even though Brokeback doesn't really exist, I recall a discussion about its location on the old big board months ago. I suppose it's possible that a fictional mountain wouldn't have to be in the same place in the movie as in Annie Proulx's story, but I recall that in the story, in the motel, Ennis tells Jack that he first thought he had the stomach cramps because he had eaten something bad at "that place in Dubois." Dubois is west and, I think, a little north of Riverton, on the edge of the Wind River Mountains. So in the story, at least, it appears that Brokeback is in the Wind Rivers. There is national forest land in that area, too, and remember that the sheep were pastured on forest service land.
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2006, 02:46:41 pm »

By thew wayt what does Alma see in Ennis? He doesn't have any money, career prospects, etc etc, a good provider, in pre-womens lib world... Then again, expectations of life might have been different in rural America in 1963.


He was handsome, for one thing, and sexy. I am sure she was overwhelmed at the thought of a plain girl like her having this handsome hunk of a man being in love with her. Also--we never saw "pre-Jack" Ennis when he was dating her and falling in love (well, he *thought* he was in love with her). I suspect that she saw some of the things that we all find so endearing: his cute little smile, his shy/sweet personality when he allowed himself to open up a little bit.

She probably saw him as dependable and it seems they both had a wish (at the beginning, at least) to have lots of children. It was only when the reality of what childrearing entailed hit her (the need for money) that she changed her mind on that score. Remember, she was pregnant at Thanksgiving so she was back on the baby-track in her second marriage.

I sometimes can't imagine what it must have been like for her. Here she gets engaged, he goes off for a summer job and comes back a changed man--and she has no clue as to what is going on. She probably thought that once they got married things would "get better" but anyone who reads "Dear Abby" knows that never happens.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2006, 03:09:34 pm »
By thew wayt what does Alma see in Ennis?

Tell you what, I must confess that I have secretly asked myself the same question about Jack: What did he see in Ennis?

It's very easy for me to see how and why a desperately lonely soul like Ennis could fall hopelessly in love with Jack. Jack is outgoing, funny, and demonstrates time and again that he is a sensitive and caring person.

In contrast, aside from the fact that Ennis is handsome, at least until Jack gets him to open up, Ennis reminds me of what Alice Roosevelt said of Calving Coolidge, that he looked like he'd been weaned on a dill pickle, he's that uptight.

It really must have been love. ...  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RouxB

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2006, 03:26:08 pm »
I totally see why Jack would be attracted to Ennis! He is steady, dependable, honest and trust worthy, capable, funny and appreciates Jack. Who doesn't love someone who thinks you're great?! As sad as I am about them never getting together, I can't help but relate it to my situation with my own Ennis. For 20 years he told me he loved me but that he would never marry me (don't ask)-he meant it. For me to think something would change was my issue not his. I feel similarly for Ennis and Jack. Ennis repeatedly tells Jack that they can't be together the way Jack wants yet Jack holds on-as he is want to do. At some point you have to realize that you are sealing your own fate.

 O0

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Offline Lumière

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2006, 03:32:35 pm »
Ennis repeatedly tells Jack that they can't be together the way Jack wants yet Jack holds on-as he is want to do. At some point you have to realize that you are sealing your own fate.

Agreed!  :)
With Ennis it was: what you see is what you get! Jack knew that, but couldn't quit him, it definitely was love.  Jack was adventurous, I bet he loved a challenge, and Ennis was one, undoubtedly!  I guess Jack saw him as a diamond in a ruff, getting to know Ennis was probably abit like a treasure hunt, he had some endearing qualities and only Jack seemed to have the diligence and patience to dig 'em out and appreciate them.


Offline opinionista

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2006, 03:35:32 pm »
For those who missed the links I posted above, there is a Signal Mountain in Wyoming. Here's the link:
http://www.planetware.com/wyoming/signal-mountain-us-wy-sig.htm

Quote
Brokeback Mountain was in the BigHorns. Am I  correct? Jack tells his wife he goes fishing way up there in Wy because the Big Horns aren't in Texas. Good excuse

Brokeback Mountain was not in the Big Horns. According to the short story Ennis and Jack never return to Brokeback Mountain, they went anywhere but there.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 03:41:38 pm »
I totally see why Jack would be attracted to Ennis! He is steady, dependable, honest and trust worthy, capable, funny and appreciates Jack. Who doesn't love someone who thinks you're great?!

Quite true, and I'm not disagreeing with them. But those are qualities that are "more real than apparent." You get to know them about somebody over time. You don't see them right away, especially the steady, dependable, honest, and trusthworthy part. It's always appeared to me that Jack is in love with Ennis before he's had enough time to really get to know him. I wasn't clear on that position, and I apologize for that.
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Offline RouxB

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 03:44:46 pm »
Now, see, I'm feelin those things from Ennis pretty much up-front. I think he exibits those qualities pretty much from the get go. Their attraction to each other is rooted (IMNSHO) in their lonliness.

 O0

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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2006, 03:46:42 pm »
I totally see why Jack would be attracted to Ennis! He is steady, dependable, honest and trust worthy, capable, funny and appreciates Jack. Who doesn't love someone who thinks you're great?!

Quite true, and I'm not disagreeing with them. But those are qualities that are "more real than apparent." You get to know them about somebody over time. You don't see them right away, especially the steady, dependable, honest, and trusthworthy part. It's always appeared to me that Jack is in love with Ennis before he's had enough time to really get to know him. I wasn't clear on that position, and I apologize for that.

Personally, I fall in love very quickly--and have been known to fall out of love when I get to know the person better. I guess I am not one of the cautious people--I hand my heart right over, silver platter and all. Maybe Jack and I share that quality.

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2006, 04:04:54 pm »
Their attraction to each other is rooted (IMNSHO) in their lonliness.

Now, that makes perfect sense. I am totally buying that explanation for why they fell in love with each other so quickly. Really, I am! These were two very lonely boys, especially Ennis. But as for the steady, dependability part, no, it takes time for someone to demonstrate that they're dependable. I don't buy that you can really know that about someone right from the get-go.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2006, 04:16:45 pm »
That's kind of a funny question, what did Alma see in Ennis? Well, what did Cassie see in him? What did Jack see in him? What about Annie Proulx, Ossana and McMurtry and millions of us? Aside from the fact that he is eye candy and a bona fide Marlboro Man, Ennis is certainly not vain or stuck up, and he has an air of a little lost boy who needs to be loved. Plus he represents a challenge that any red-blooded female would relish. Irresistable!
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Offline Pipedream

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2006, 04:20:55 pm »
That's kind of a funny question, what did Alma see in Ennis? Well, what did Cassie see in him? What did Jack see in him? What about Annie Proulx, Ossana and McMurtry and millions of us? Aside from the fact that he is eye candy and a bona fide Marlboro Man, Ennis is certainly not vain or stuck up, and he has an air of a little lost boy who needs to be loved. Plus he represents a challenge that any red-blooded female would relish. Irresistable!
I second that, Front-Ranger. Ennis is bloody gorgeous. I am totally in love with him, too.

 ::)

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Re: What Jack saw in Ennis
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2006, 05:57:31 pm »
Their attraction to each other is rooted (IMNSHO) in their lonliness.

Now, that makes perfect sense. I am totally buying that explanation for why they fell in love with each other so quickly. Really, I am! These were two very lonely boys, especially Ennis. But as for the steady, dependability part, no, it takes time for someone to demonstrate that they're dependable. I don't buy that you can really know that about someone right from the get-go.
All good points that have been made, and I would add that I suspect that part of what attracted Jack to Ennis is precisely Ennis's loneliness--his desperate need for love. Jack was a nurturer, and I think he intuitively sensed how bereft Ennis was of love. Jack's "It's all right...it's all right", in the second tent scene, may have been the most loving words Ennis had heard in his life up to that point (and it breaks my heart to imagine that). In contemporary terms, Jack might be termed a "co-dependant" kind of personality, an appellation that I find tends to trivialize or subvert the innate, natural human yearning not only to receive love but to give it.

Another element of Jack's attraction to Ennis, I think, was his recognition that Ennis was an excellent cowboy. Both the boys have great respect and admiration for the cowboy's image and life, and in Ennis Jack found an exemplary model who responded to him with interest and affection.

Just some thoughts...

Scott

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2006, 06:18:00 pm »
From the short story -

They were  respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had  been expected. Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous,  drunken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white  out of the moon.   

That's a good enough reason right there.

It's interesting, it seems like there are sort of two views on Jack falling in love, and staying in love, with Ennis.  There's the "it doesn't make sense, he's too uptight, he never gives enough" school of cerebral thought, and there's the "OMG, yum yum, me love too" school of PHROAHH (that British sound some of you make).  I'm in the second school.



Offline Meryl

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2006, 11:19:08 pm »
I agree with moremojo that Ennis's loneliness brought out Jack's nurturing instincts, and that Jack was lonely, too.  In the few homosexual relationships Jack may have had before meeting Ennis, he hadn't met with anyone who was willing to form an emotional bond.  Ennis didn't know how not to bond, as much as he might have been denying it to himself.

But Ennis had a wild side, too, and I think that's what kept Jack coming back.  Ennis's taciturn, repressed exterior hid a volatile temper and a personality that could go "full throttle."  Jack loved to ride bulls, chose mares with low startle points, opted for the excitement of the rodeo life.  It seems he chose his man the same way.  ;)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2006, 11:42:39 pm »
But Ennis had a wild side, too, and I think that's what kept Jack coming back.  Ennis's taciturn, repressed exterior hid a volatile temper and a personality that could go "full throttle."  Jack loved to ride bulls, chose mares with low startle points, opted for the excitement of the rodeo life.  It seems he chose his man the same way.  ;)

Meryl, you are in the saddle!  Good work.  You are dripping pearls today.


Offline nakymaton

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2006, 12:03:37 am »
Just to be utterly geeky, back in October or so when I first read the short story, I did a search on the USGS website for any name like Signal, Wyoming. Here's the page with all the results: http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/ngm-bin/ngm_PN_dbi.pl.

Signal Mountain, Signal Peak, Signal Butte, Signal Hill, Signal Point...

I thought Brokeback Mountain was probably in the Wind Rivers, or in the Gros Ventres, kinda between Dubois and Jackson. Ang Lee apparently liked the look of the Bighorns, though.

And I've been thinking about what Jack liked about Ennis. And I was thinking about how all sorts of people seem to think Jack's no good at what he does, or what he ought to do (Jack's father, Aguirre, those Texans talking about how Jack used to ride bulls, Lureen commenting about "our only combine salesman"). And I was thinking that Ennis gives Jack a hard time, but doesn't seem to think any less of Jack. So maybe Jack feels like he can be himself around Ennis. (Or at least, be himself except for not being able to come out and tell Ennis about being in love and stuff.)

Howdy, by the way. Meryl's an old friend of mine, and she told me you folks were nice. Hope you don't mind the intrusion.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Meryl

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2006, 12:14:33 am »
Quote
Meryl, you are in the saddle!  Good work.  You are dripping pearls today.

Ooh, I like that.  From now on, I am always going to wear pearls when I ride.  ;D

Naky, you make a good point about Ennis letting Jack be himself.  That worked the other way, too.  Love does wonders for one's self esteem, and those boys sure needed it.  Glad to see you here!  I know the folks will realize right soon what a jewel has appeared in our midst.  :-*
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2006, 12:28:22 am »
You can call me Mel with this ID, Meryl. "nakymaton" is just too awkward for a decent nickname.

Is this the kind of board where I can admit that I have fantasies about driving through Riverton, stopping at the post office, and sending post cards? And that I know my husband will roll his eyes when he figures out what I'm doing?
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2006, 12:42:42 am »
You can call me Mel with this ID, Meryl. "nakymaton" is just too awkward for a decent nickname.

Is this the kind of board where I can admit that I have fantasies about driving through Riverton, stopping at the post office, and sending post cards? And that I know my husband will roll his eyes when he figures out what I'm doing?

OH YES!! this is totally the place for those kinds of fantasies!  We've all got em here. ::)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2006, 08:41:43 am »
 ;D Oh, good. Thanks, vkm.

I had a thought related to Ennis and Jack's hometowns, brought on by reading this thread.

So Sage and Lightning Flat are in opposite corners of Wyoming. But they're also in really different landscapes.

When you think of Wyoming, you probably picture the big gorgeous mountains: the Tetons, the Wind Rivers, the Bighorns. Most of the state isn't like that, though. The eastern part of the state is mostly the western part of the Great Plains: there are isolated mountain ranges that pop up as far east as the Black Hills over the border in South Dakota, but mostly its wide open spaces, not much topography, grassland and sagebrush and rangeland. Not many trees. Long distances to the horizon. Boring as anything to drive across. And the wind, oh, the wind.

The western side of the state is a bit different, though. There's a range of smaller mountains west of highway 189, mostly fairly low (the peaks are around maybe 11,000 feet, but most of the mountains are lower, not quite above treeline). The moutains and valleys run north-south, so you can drive long distances in one direction, but there aren't many places to cross the divides and head west into Utah or east into the rest of Wyoming. Pretty country, actually, with trees on the mountainsides and small ranches in the valleys. (The green in the valleys is probably from irrigation, though, I would guess.) It kind of surprises me that there were 43 miles without a curve in the road in Sage, actually, but I haven't been through Sage itself, so I don't know for sure. Pretty in many ways, but also very isolated -- not spectacular enough to attract tourists and second home buyers, but with enough topography that driving a hundred miles would be hard work. And, maybe more important to thinking about Ennis, it's a place where the horizons are close in, where you can't see that far.

So Jack's from the Plains, from the part of the state that people think of as bleak and uninviting, but also the place where you can see forever if you lift your head and look. The sort of place where somebody like Jack could see the horizons and want to go there and across them and see if there was anything different. "Crazy to be somewhere, anywhere but Lightning Flat."

And Ennis is from the low, not-very-spectacular mountains in the western part of the state, the sort of place where it's hard to see the distance, where the world is hemmed in by topography. Even though Ennis moved, to Riverton, he never tries to push beyond the boundaries of the social world where he grew up.

And I've got to get a three-year-old out of bed, so I'll leave those incomplete thoughts, and hope I haven't mangled the characters to fit the landscape as I picture it in my head.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline RouxB

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2006, 12:43:21 pm »
WOW!!! Thanks!

 O0

Heathen

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2006, 02:09:07 pm »
Hello and welcome, Mel. Wow you really hit the ground running with all that good info about Wyoming. From what I've seen, this state to the north of me is a lot like Annie Proulx's prose, sparse but dramatic. I love your fantasy about the post office. A few pages down there is a thread called "You KNow You're a Brokeholic When" that you might want to check out. Hope to see u here again soon when your 3-yr-old is napping.

That reminds me of a story. I was typing away at my computer once when my son, Kit, about 3 years old at the time, laid his hand on the keyboard and said, "Mommy, don't touch 'puter. 'Puter is Kit's special!"
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2006, 02:23:04 pm »
[Ellemeno hangs out large "Welcome Mel" banner]

Mel, that's great.  Any insightful, smart, humorous, BBM-lovin' friend of Meryl's is a friend of mine.  And I have a three year old too.  She knows my desktop background is a picture of Ennis and Jack (dozy embrace close-up).


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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2006, 11:18:11 pm »
Absolutely I'm a proud Coloradan. Welcome aboard!
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2006, 07:44:21 pm »
Back to why Jack fell in love with Ennis (because I am just seeing this thread for the first time and wish I'd found it earlier but can't pass up the chance to throw in my opinion on this issue).

Anyway, I agree with everything everybody said above: his appreciation of Jack, his vulnerability, his wild side.  His being gorgeous sure doesn't hurt. Personally, I was in love with him by the time the train went past Aguirre's trailer.

But also, Ennis is good at all the things that Jack tries to be good at. He has the Marlboro image casually nailed (a pose that Jack often looks like he's self-consciously trying to assume). He can shoot things. He can catch objects tossed to him without warning -- and with his left hand! -- whereas Jack fumbled the keys LD Newsome threw. Etc.

As for Ennis' shyness and social awkwardness, those qualities probably just drew Jack in all the more. People who are strong in one characteristic often don't seek that quality in a partner. In other words, Jack took his own friendly extroversion for granted; he wouldn't necessarily care whether Ennis shared it. The fact that he doesn't just becomes a challenge; he found it exciting when Ennis DID open up to him. To paraphrase Cassie, guys don't fall in love with friendliness. (Not necessarily, anyway. I guess Ennis did.).

And still another point: It's not like Ennis was taciturn and cold to Jack, at least not after that first afternoon when they had beers together. He always listened intently when Jack talked, laughed at his jokes, banged the pot and said "very good" about his singing, and obviously was crazy about him. That's a pretty potent combination. And Ennis continued to respond that way to Jack, for the most part, for the next 20 years.

Ennis may have been uptight, but the only real problem his uptightness caused for Jack was, well, the big obvious one.





Offline DeeDee

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2006, 07:53:26 pm »
But also, Ennis is good at all the things that Jack tries to be good at. He has the Marlboro image casually nailed (a pose that Jack often looks like he's self-consciously trying to assume). He can shoot things. He can catch objects tossed to him without warning -- and with his left hand! -- whereas Jack fumbled the keys LD Newsome threw. Etc.


Wow.  Another great point.  Something else I didn't notice in a gazillion viewings.
Ennis catching the watch left handed and Jack dropping the keys goes back to an earlier post about how hard Jack tries to do things, but never succeeds.. This is probably why he married money.
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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2006, 04:34:55 pm »
I know this is Ennis' thread, but I have to put in a word for Jack here. He started out being the experienced one on Brokeback Mountain. We see him as an expert shepherd and the first time we get a different idea is when Ennis said that his dad thought rodeo riders were f**kups, and Jack started to clown around and got a big smile out of Ennis. Jack was quick to criticize himself, he had internalized his dad. He said he couldn't cook worth a damn, but  we see him peeling potatoes pretty expertly, even while something very distracting was going on  :P So he didn't kill the coyote. I believe he just didn't have a killer instinct. And he was just fine with a can opener. The only reason he had a problem with it is because he was trying to open the can while lying down with the can balanced on his stomach! (Hey, I'll volunteer to play that can!!) Later on, he was a bettermost combine salesman. Altho he never wanted children, he cared about Bobby and was the parent who remembered that Bobby needed a tutor (at the age of two no less). I could go on and on. Cut to the end, in the story, Jack says bitterly "Nothing come to my hand in the right way." But it's ironic that he is saying this to Ennis, the day laborer who can't keep a steady job, failed at his marriage, and lives in rental houses and trailers. Jack, on the other hand, feels like a failure even though he is affluent, has an intact marriage and a child, and is a prominent member of Childress society, as evidenced by his attendance at the fundraiser. His father condemned him too and said, "Jack thought he was too special." Jack was successful to leave the dried up old ranch at Lightning Flat, and to do very well for a dropout that rodeo clowns and the draft rejected. He could leave Lightning Flat but he could never escape the condemnation of society or the judgemental father who lived on in his head.
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Offline twistedude

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2006, 12:17:32 pm »
Ennis is "from around Sage," as it says in the first non-italicized paragraph in the short story...you guys forgetting how to read? Probably still had relatives or friends there...no home.

ANYWAY, someone already said that...so shut up. Julie.

Jack sees right away that Ennis is good to look at, and imediately begins "peeling" him. (There's a famouns line in a play about someone "peeling their onion,"--carefully taking off layers of themselves for everyoine to see). He likes everythbing he uncovers. He's good to work with, and they work well together, and opens up really pretty readily to Jack's "peeling."  Ennis shows a surprising willingness to do things Jack doesn't want to do, or can't do well (shoot, herd and sleep in a pup tent that smells like cat piss). They are interested in eachother from the first days...Jack looks down at Ennis's fire; Ennis looks up at Jack with the sheep...

But there's no getting around the fact that in the movie, and only in the movie, Jack, with no undue haste, is after Ennis, from the moment he lays eyes on him.  I don't know if there's love at first sight, but there sure is "I want that one" at first sight...

And, as someone has already pointed out, Ennis knows nothing of sex, and little of love--both probably know little of love (maybe Jack, from  his mom...)

Photo is of Jake and Heath in costume, but not acting--dress is from first summer, but whisley bottle is the more copious one from the last night (for some reason).

« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 01:01:45 pm by julie01 »
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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2007, 11:07:07 am »
All about Ennis--can we ever get enough? NO!
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2007, 03:32:37 pm »
Thanks for the bump, Lee. I haven't seen this thread before. The last post had been made three days before I joined BM. This is a great thread with good insights.

Don't know if anybody is still interested in discussing it, but it's worth a try.
I had a thought reagarding the OP which hasn't been mentioned yet: There is a difference about Ennis's past between the book and the movie.

This sentence from Ennis is from the movie (in the bar, first day): "[...]Bank took the ranch. Brother and sister, they raised me, mostly."

It's the mostly that is different to the story. The story says: Ennis, reared by his older brother and sister after their parents drove off...

These two things, the 'mostly' and Ennis' description of first his sister marrying and moving away, then his brother (no more room for me) give me the impression that (movie)Ennis had been handed around among his siblings and other relatives, like some old dog. At least for parts of the time between his parent's death and him meeting Jack.

So, he could have come from anywhere when he arrived in Signal. Maybe he had been back to Sage and stayed with an aunt/uncle/whatever for a few weeks after KE's wedding. But my guess nevertheless would be he came from Worland, where he had worked with his brother.

Since I never saw that the truck's door had "Sage" on it, I checked the DVD (no screencaps of the truck door at stripedwall). And guess what? It doesn't say "Sage". You can only see the first three letters of the word, and they are S A C. You can see parts of the forth letter, and the left side of the forth letter is round, like an O or another C, not like an E.

Any photoshop magican here, who could make a screencap of the truck door? Toast? The best view of the door is at 00:01:17

Aside:
Another difference between the two quoted sentences is raised, said by Ennis - and reared, the description in the story. Are there any important differences in the tenor/contents of these two words?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 03:36:00 pm by Penthesilea »

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2007, 07:45:53 am »
Not sure these will help, but here are some definitions:
  • Rear: bring up, raise, care for, nurture, take care of, tend to, look after, watch over; to bring up and care for young animals or children until they are fully grown.
  • Raise: bring up, educate, nurture, rear; to look after somebody as or like a parent, while he or she is growing up.
The first seems a bit more caring (tend to, watch over) and includes “until they are fully grown.” The second sounds slightly more formal (educate) and includes “while...growing up.” There is a discernable difference between the two ideas.

Thank you Barbara. The fact that 'to rear' is a bit more caring (and includes 'until fully grown') than 'to raise' fits to the added 'mostly' in the movie. This supports my theory that movieEnnis was handed around among different relatives. (yeah, I know, sometimes a cigar...but I don't believe in cigars ;D)
This adds to the statement which we have already made on various threads that movieEnnis is even more "screwed up" than storyEnnis.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Where was Ennis coming from? Going to?
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2008, 07:43:17 pm »
Was Alma's sister at Alam's mariage?

Did Ennis go get her for his wedding?