Author Topic: Secrets and Lies...  (Read 17716 times)

Offline YaadPyar

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Secrets and Lies...
« on: April 17, 2006, 11:21:34 am »
OK - hear me out if you would.  Just doing some musing on another board, and wondering about something I wanted your thoughts on.

In my life, as I grow and change and try new things, it's my friends and family - those I love the most - that I turn to for support and insight and use as a sounding board.  We share the journey together, and that's the basis for our relationship deepening as well.

So - what happens when that process is turned on its ear?  What happens when you see BBM, and it creates a HUGE internal shift, and you're trying to understand your thoughts and feelings, and trying to swim though the tidal wave of emotional upheaval, and the very folks you always turn to, you are now hiding from.

Instead of confiding in your closest friends, you stop talking to them about the movie and yourself in relation to it, and you reach out to total strangers who can offer you the friendship and support you need.  What does that do to the existing relationships when you can't share some of the most profound feelings and needs with them?  What's the impact of making new friends that you hardly know, and yet feel deeply connected with?

When the source of inspiration is a secret, is the support in your own life for change less visible or less available, and is the impact of it hidden even from yourself?  What is the result of having to hide something so important?  We joke about not telling people about BBM, but secrets & lies are always insidious...I wonder what the impact of not being able to speak more openly is on our own personal development and experience.

Does the "secrecy" of your experience mean that the impact of BBM in your life is also hidden - maybe even from yourself?  Just thinking out loud. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 04:10:14 pm by yaadpyar »
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline silkncense

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2006, 11:54:18 am »
I know exactly what you mean.  I have been sadly surprised by some responses to this film. 

I am thankful that both my sons watched it; one giving it 5 of 5 *'s & the other placing it - if not in his top 10  at least in his top 25 films.  But my college best friend has become a far-right devotee & will not even respond to my suggestion she see Brokeback.   In this case, the relationship appears to be, if not ending, than certainly not on remotely the same level for more reasons than Brokeback.

So, I try to realize that not everyone has the same reaction to any piece of art.  I still tell people about Brokeback & what I feel it means.  But, I discuss it with people who see it the same. 

"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline Lumière

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2006, 12:04:14 pm »
Cheers for starting this thread yaadpyar...Here is my own BBM experience with friends:

One of my girlfriends (huge Q as F fan) went and saw the movie a while back.  She was not 'shocked' by the sex scenes as some people tend to be, but she came out of it with the impression that it was a lust story, not a love story.  We talked about it for a bit, I gave her my ideas as to why this was definitely not a lust story, and she completely understood and changed her view on it.  It didn't take much to convince her, so I know that she just hadn't given it enough thought.  After that, she just kinda moved on from the film.

A few other friends saw it, some liked it, some thought it was average - I always brought up BBM to them and they eventually got sick and tired and started threatening my life if I wouldn't give it a rest  ;D

Another friend didn't even see it, she is very homophobic and even got disgusted by my BBM desktop wallpaper.  She belongs to the "I don't hate gay people, just their homosexuality" camp and I stopped discussing the subject with her altogether.  She compares homosexuality to child molestation and other heinous crimes; I always get pissed off and frustrated with such discussions, so I have refrained completely from discussing this subject with her...So no BBM discussion on that front...

So on the whole, my BBM experience has been very intense, right from the moment I first saw the film in theatres in January, to reading Annie P's novella, to joining the BBM IMDB forum, to being here with all of you.  The movie itself affected me on a very personal level, I am okay with that, even if I can't completely get people around me (friends/family) to share the experience with me.  If people close to me are not 'open' enough to make me feel they can be privy to my 'BBM secrets', it's not the end of the world ... it won't make my experience any less personal or spectacular, and it definitely doesn't mean that its impact is hidden from myself or others  :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 12:56:57 pm by lucise »


Offline RouxB

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006, 12:48:20 pm »
Ah, Celeste-is this why I spent Saturday in bed in a funk? I am feeling pretty isolated these days-in part due to my inability to quit BbM and these message boards-precisely because I am unable to relate to my friends right now. And I have spectacular friends. They are a little bit concerned about me and this addiction-hell, I was concerned about me-so I don't feel safe or comfortable talking about it with them any longer. Since it, by necessity, consumes a good deal of my waking (and sleeping) hours, to eliminate that part of my life from my interractions with them pretty much eliminates me talking. I come here for support and validation for this piece of my life. Perversely enough, one of the messages I got from movie was about taking more control of my life and this isolating myself is not exactly accomplishing that.

 O0

Heathen

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 01:05:45 pm »
Very timely for me, Celeste.  I'm about to go spend some time with a group of dear friends, women I've know (some of them) for well over a decade.)

Pretty much what RouxB said.  I also have spectacular friends.  They all know I "really like" BBM, that I even have a BBM t shirt (and I rarely wear clothing with pictures/writing on it, so they get it's a big deal from that too).

To a few I've fessed up to the supreme geekiness of being a moderator on a BBM forum.  But no one knows how often I've seen it, except my husband, and actually now that I have the DVD, even he doesn't know how often I watch parts of it, or search the short story for a word that starts with some certain letter for the ABC game.

And as a rule I'm a very forthcoming person.  So when I'm not telling something that needs to come out, that thing starts to feel like a clog in a stream, that other things that need to flow out can't find their way around, and then my stream gets more and more clogged with debris.  Ya know?

Celeste, you described me very well in your OP.  I learn a lot about what's going on with me by talking with people.  And I'm not talking with people nearly as much because of the secret clogging my stream of words.  And then that heightens the importance of this forum, too much so, and I expect too much, because I am trying to get too many needs met in one place.

So anyway, most Monday mornings i get together with some dear old friends.  I've been missing it about half the time these last few months (something I never used to do).  Last night, I asked a friend to come pick me up, to MAKE myself go.  She'll be here in a few minutes.

Do I have to tell them I'm so BBM-focused?  Is there another way to unclog the stream of words?  I do really miss my friends, and it's my own doing.

I'll report back.

Clarissa

Offline YaadPyar

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 01:27:28 pm »
Hey Elle - looking forward to hearing back from you.  Who else in the world calls you 'Elle'?

Great to hear from others on this.  I keep thinking about how isolating this journey has been in so many ways, which is odd.  I've been pulled out of some dark hiding place by my BBM experience.  I've been reminded by Ennis that I don't want a moment's regret in my relationships.  If I'm going to swear anything, I want to do it here and now, and not to a memory.

I'm having to find my way back into my own life.  See what's there worth keeping and what needs letting go.  So now instead of choosing here or there, I'm building a bridge.  I won't give up my dear friends who know the right answer to "Want some coffee, don't ya?  Piece a cherry cake?" 

Those words mean too much to me, and each line, each gesture, each expression of BBM tells my story.  Remember Killing Me Softly?  How the singer was telling her story...?

Strumming my pain with his fingers
Singing my life with his words
Killing me softly with his song
Killing me softly with his song
Telling my whole life with his words
Killing me softly with his song

I heard he sang a good song, I heard he had a style
And so I came to see him, to listen for a while
And there he was, this young boy, a stranger to my eyes

(Chorus)

I felt all flushed with fever, embarassed by the crowd
I felt he'd found my letters and read each one out loud
I prayed that he would finish, but he just kept right on

(Chorus)

He sang as if he knew me in all my dark despair
And then he looked right through me as if I wasn't there
But he was there, this stranger, singing clear and loud

Strumming my pain with his fingers
Singing my life with his words
Killing me softly with his song
Killing me softly with his song
Telling my whole life with his words
Killing me softly with his song


That's how I feel about BBM - it sings my life - tells my whole life - with its words.  And I'm not going to say good-bye to a group of folks who somehow understand this as well. 

So - now it's time to figure out how to integrate this change into my life, and begin to re-connect with all the wonderful people who may not love BBM, but do love me.  And it's time to figure out how to sustain the relationships here so I still have someone to finish lines of dialogue with me, and get teary just seeing Mrs. Twist put her hand on Ennis's shoulder, feel conflicted about whether to watch the DVD over and over or save it for special moments.

I'm going to build a strong bridge - one that can hold all the weight of both worlds, and can withstand my traveling back and forth frequently.  And I'm going to bring friends from one place across into the other, and make my world big enough for both.
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline chefjudy

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 01:31:32 pm »
 :) this is a very ilnteresting thread and I can relate on a couple of levels -

1) my older daughter has told me that I "should stop the madness" especially when I mentioned that I had seen the movie 4 times in the theatre and then bought the dvd and have watched it also

my son who lives in Arizona called after it was released a couple of weeks ago to ask if I had received my copy from
Amazon yet - he works at WalMart so he bought his there and got a nice discount as well ;)

the point here is that my daughter doesn't understand my compulsion to discuss, read and study this film and attendant issues - my son "gets" it and can discuss things with me related to the movie

2) my brothers have seen the movie and thought it was very good - but not the best movie that they have seen in the last 20 years like I think it is - but we can discuss some of the aspects of scenes a)nd indeed, it was I that pointed out to them that Jack's death was open for discussion depending on your particular take on that scene with the tire irons- real or imagined

but my point (and I do have one - thanks, Ellen) is that I can come here and talk, discuss, fantasize and revel in this wonderful movie to my heart's content with no repercussions (well maybe the housework and gardening that are suffering because I am attached to my keyboard, but other than that...................) so thanks a bunch to the board and my buddies here for allowing this movie nut to gorge on a beautiful film in so many ways :D


Judy


"it could be like this, just like this, always......" Jack Twist

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 01:43:01 pm »
What I'm finding with this movie, like anything that happens in the mainstream that is powerful enough to change people's lives, is that it's showing me who my true friends are.  And the people I aspire to having as friends.  I know very well from how disappointing it is when a longtime friend or close family member just doesn't get it.  I've had one of each - a woman friend and my father - just not have a clue.

But I was fortunate enough to have had three people come through for me in different ways about it in the last few days.  The first was my husband, who was so profoundly moved by it on his second viewing (and first DVD viewing) that he cried openly in front of me - he didn't do that the first time in the theater - just got a little misty and did that I'm-Such-A-Guy-And-There's-Something-In-My-Eye thing.  He has never once cried openly, as in tears running down his face, in all the time I've known him.  And though we didn't talk as much about it afterwards as I would have liked (I've kinda backed off and let him have that delayed reaction we know so much about), he did say some profoundly positive things, for him, about it like "You're right - that *is* a great movie."  First of all, I can't remember when he's *ever* uttered the words, "You're right," at least not to me.  ;)  Second of all, the only other movie I've ever heard him describe as "great" is "Snow Falling On Cedars," which he also describes to others as the best movie he's ever seen.  His other favorites are "Casablanca," "2001: A Space Odyssey," "Dr. Strangelove," and "Citizen Kane," to name a few, so he's no slouch in the Taste category.

Then, yesterday, a longtime woman friend and I went and saw a really crappy movie the title of which I'm almost embarassed to admit here ("Failure to Launch" - gag).  It was not my choice, believe me.  She usually likes pretty pedestrian stuff, not to sound snobby, and she's one of the ones I described as someone vying to be an ex-friend months ago because she said she had no interest in ever seeing this one.  So you can imagine how floored I was when, as we were talking about how lame the movie we'd just seen was, she said, "There hasn't been a really good love story out there for a while now.  But I hear that one you liked, that "Brokeback Mountain," is one of the best love stories ever made.  Would you say it is?"  Well, duh.  I've only *been* saying that for the last two months, now.  What I actually said was "Yes, I would.  You should see it, if you can get past any reservations you might have because it's a gay love story."  She goes, "Oh, seeing gay sex doesn't bother me.  I had just thought I wouldn't be able to relate to it."  Uh, you do like men, don't you?  WHATever.  Anyway, the fact that she's willing to see it floored me.  She goes, "I take it you own it already, huh?"  I said, "Hell, yeah."  She says, "Can I borrow it the next time we get together?  I'd really like to see it."  Turns out she had just been to Chicago for a week for a family reunion with her four sisters (she's one of 10 siblings), and three out of four of them RAVED about it - the other one just hadn't seen it yet.

Finally, I had lent my other copy out for the weekend to a straight male co-worker who sees a lot of movies and has good taste.  He brought it back today and said that he and his wife "really, REALLY liked it - it was a great movie."  He was on his way to a meeting and didn't have time to chat about it, but we talk a lot about the movies we both like and recommend to each other, so I'm hoping to hear some of his insights soon.

I know what you all mean, though.  This is one of the high points in the saga that is my never-ending obsession with and promotion of this movie.  There have been some equally low ones and there are bound to be some more.  But I think the fact that it remains the #1 rental at Netflix and is probably #1 for DVD sales just goes to show that the more people who actually see it, the more people who want to.  And they told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on, and so on.  :)
No more beans!

Offline Lumière

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 02:14:32 pm »
What I'm finding with this movie, like anything that happens in the mainstream that is powerful enough to change people's lives, is that it's showing me who my true friends are.  And the people I aspire to having as friends.  I know very well from how disappointing it is when a longtime friend or close family member just doesn't get it.  

Oh how I agree with you on this one.   :)

A few years ago, I was going through a pretty rough time in my life, emotional crises, job problems, trying to resolve alot of issues with/about myself, and boy, did I ever discover who my true friends were!
Granted, some people won't relate to this movie like some of us on here do, but comments from friends/family sometimes opens your eyes to parts of them that are otherwise hidden or dormant.

yaadpyar - I agree with you on the song "Killing me softly" by the Fugees..what a mood that song puts me in!


Offline YaadPyar

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 02:20:12 pm »

yaadpyar - I agree with you on the song "Killing me softly" by the Fugees..what a mood that song puts me in!


I love the intensity of that song, and how it reminds me so much of my BBM experience.  i'm torn between the Roberta Flack original and the Fugees cover of it.  Lauryn Hill's voice is amaaaaaaaazing.
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)