Secrets and Lies...

[YaadPyar]

OK - hear me out if you would.  Just doing some musing on another board, and wondering about something I wanted your thoughts on.

In my life, as I grow and change and try new things, it's my friends and family - those I love the most - that I turn to for support and insight and use as a sounding board.  We share the journey together, and that's the basis for our relationship deepening as well.

So - what happens when that process is turned on its ear?  What happens when you see BBM, and it creates a HUGE internal shift, and you're trying to understand your thoughts and feelings, and trying to swim though the tidal wave of emotional upheaval, and the very folks you always turn to, you are now hiding from.

Instead of confiding in your closest friends, you stop talking to them about the movie and yourself in relation to it, and you reach out to total strangers who can offer you the friendship and support you need.  What does that do to the existing relationships when you can't share some of the most profound feelings and needs with them?  What's the impact of making new friends that you hardly know, and yet feel deeply connected with?

When the source of inspiration is a secret, is the support in your own life for change less visible or less available, and is the impact of it hidden even from yourself?  What is the result of having to hide something so important?  We joke about not telling people about BBM, but secrets & lies are always insidious...I wonder what the impact of not being able to speak more openly is on our own personal development and experience.

Does the "secrecy" of your experience mean that the impact of BBM in your life is also hidden - maybe even from yourself?  Just thinking out loud. 

[silkncense]

I know exactly what you mean.  I have been sadly surprised by some responses to this film. 

I am thankful that both my sons watched it; one giving it 5 of 5 *'s & the other placing it - if not in his top 10  at least in his top 25 films.  But my college best friend has become a far-right devotee & will not even respond to my suggestion she see Brokeback.   In this case, the relationship appears to be, if not ending, than certainly not on remotely the same level for more reasons than Brokeback.

So, I try to realize that not everyone has the same reaction to any piece of art.  I still tell people about Brokeback & what I feel it means.  But, I discuss it with people who see it the same. 

[Lumière]

Cheers for starting this thread yaadpyar...Here is my own BBM experience with friends:

One of my girlfriends (huge Q as F fan) went and saw the movie a while back.  She was not 'shocked' by the sex scenes as some people tend to be, but she came out of it with the impression that it was a lust story, not a love story.  We talked about it for a bit, I gave her my ideas as to why this was definitely not a lust story, and she completely understood and changed her view on it.  It didn't take much to convince her, so I know that she just hadn't given it enough thought.  After that, she just kinda moved on from the film.

A few other friends saw it, some liked it, some thought it was average - I always brought up BBM to them and they eventually got sick and tired and started threatening my life if I wouldn't give it a rest 

Another friend didn't even see it, she is very homophobic and even got disgusted by my BBM desktop wallpaper.  She belongs to the "I don't hate gay people, just their homosexuality" camp and I stopped discussing the subject with her altogether.  She compares homosexuality to child molestation and other heinous crimes; I always get pissed off and frustrated with such discussions, so I have refrained completely from discussing this subject with her...So no BBM discussion on that front...

So on the whole, my BBM experience has been very intense, right from the moment I first saw the film in theatres in January, to reading Annie P's novella, to joining the BBM IMDB forum, to being here with all of you.  The movie itself affected me on a very personal level, I am okay with that, even if I can't completely get people around me (friends/family) to share the experience with me.  If people close to me are not 'open' enough to make me feel they can be privy to my 'BBM secrets', it's not the end of the world ... it won't make my experience any less personal or spectacular, and it definitely doesn't mean that its impact is hidden from myself or others 

[RouxB]

Ah, Celeste-is this why I spent Saturday in bed in a funk? I am feeling pretty isolated these days-in part due to my inability to quit BbM and these message boards-precisely because I am unable to relate to my friends right now. And I have spectacular friends. They are a little bit concerned about me and this addiction-hell, I was concerned about me-so I don't feel safe or comfortable talking about it with them any longer. Since it, by necessity, consumes a good deal of my waking (and sleeping) hours, to eliminate that part of my life from my interractions with them pretty much eliminates me talking. I come here for support and validation for this piece of my life. Perversely enough, one of the messages I got from movie was about taking more control of my life and this isolating myself is not exactly accomplishing that.

 

[Ellemeno]

Very timely for me, Celeste.  I'm about to go spend some time with a group of dear friends, women I've know (some of them) for well over a decade.)

Pretty much what RouxB said.  I also have spectacular friends.  They all know I "really like" BBM, that I even have a BBM t shirt (and I rarely wear clothing with pictures/writing on it, so they get it's a big deal from that too).

To a few I've fessed up to the supreme geekiness of being a moderator on a BBM forum.  But no one knows how often I've seen it, except my husband, and actually now that I have the DVD, even he doesn't know how often I watch parts of it, or search the short story for a word that starts with some certain letter for the ABC game.

And as a rule I'm a very forthcoming person.  So when I'm not telling something that needs to come out, that thing starts to feel like a clog in a stream, that other things that need to flow out can't find their way around, and then my stream gets more and more clogged with debris.  Ya know?

Celeste, you described me very well in your OP.  I learn a lot about what's going on with me by talking with people.  And I'm not talking with people nearly as much because of the secret clogging my stream of words.  And then that heightens the importance of this forum, too much so, and I expect too much, because I am trying to get too many needs met in one place.

So anyway, most Monday mornings i get together with some dear old friends.  I've been missing it about half the time these last few months (something I never used to do).  Last night, I asked a friend to come pick me up, to MAKE myself go.  She'll be here in a few minutes.

Do I have to tell them I'm so BBM-focused?  Is there another way to unclog the stream of words?  I do really miss my friends, and it's my own doing.

I'll report back.

Clarissa

[YaadPyar]

Hey Elle - looking forward to hearing back from you.  Who else in the world calls you 'Elle'?

Great to hear from others on this.  I keep thinking about how isolating this journey has been in so many ways, which is odd.  I've been pulled out of some dark hiding place by my BBM experience.  I've been reminded by Ennis that I don't want a moment's regret in my relationships.  If I'm going to swear anything, I want to do it here and now, and not to a memory.

I'm having to find my way back into my own life.  See what's there worth keeping and what needs letting go.  So now instead of choosing here or there, I'm building a bridge.  I won't give up my dear friends who know the right answer to "Want some coffee, don't ya?  Piece a cherry cake?" 

Those words mean too much to me, and each line, each gesture, each expression of BBM tells my story.  Remember Killing Me Softly?  How the singer was telling her story...?

Strumming my pain with his fingers
Singing my life with his words
Killing me softly with his song
Killing me softly with his song
Telling my whole life with his words
Killing me softly with his song

I heard he sang a good song, I heard he had a style
And so I came to see him, to listen for a while
And there he was, this young boy, a stranger to my eyes

(Chorus)

I felt all flushed with fever, embarassed by the crowd
I felt he'd found my letters and read each one out loud
I prayed that he would finish, but he just kept right on

(Chorus)

He sang as if he knew me in all my dark despair
And then he looked right through me as if I wasn't there
But he was there, this stranger, singing clear and loud

Strumming my pain with his fingers
Singing my life with his words
Killing me softly with his song
Killing me softly with his song
Telling my whole life with his words
Killing me softly with his song

That's how I feel about BBM - it sings my life - tells my whole life - with its words.  And I'm not going to say good-bye to a group of folks who somehow understand this as well. 

So - now it's time to figure out how to integrate this change into my life, and begin to re-connect with all the wonderful people who may not love BBM, but do love me.  And it's time to figure out how to sustain the relationships here so I still have someone to finish lines of dialogue with me, and get teary just seeing Mrs. Twist put her hand on Ennis's shoulder, feel conflicted about whether to watch the DVD over and over or save it for special moments.

I'm going to build a strong bridge - one that can hold all the weight of both worlds, and can withstand my traveling back and forth frequently.  And I'm going to bring friends from one place across into the other, and make my world big enough for both.

[chefjudy]

  this is a very ilnteresting thread and I can relate on a couple of levels -

1) my older daughter has told me that I "should stop the madness" especially when I mentioned that I had seen the movie 4 times in the theatre and then bought the dvd and have watched it also

my son who lives in Arizona called after it was released a couple of weeks ago to ask if I had received my copy from
Amazon yet - he works at WalMart so he bought his there and got a nice discount as well

the point here is that my daughter doesn't understand my compulsion to discuss, read and study this film and attendant issues - my son "gets" it and can discuss things with me related to the movie

2) my brothers have seen the movie and thought it was very good - but not the best movie that they have seen in the last 20 years like I think it is - but we can discuss some of the aspects of scenes a)nd indeed, it was I that pointed out to them that Jack's death was open for discussion depending on your particular take on that scene with the tire irons- real or imagined

but my point (and I do have one - thanks, Ellen) is that I can come here and talk, discuss, fantasize and revel in this wonderful movie to my heart's content with no repercussions (well maybe the housework and gardening that are suffering because I am attached to my keyboard, but other than that...................) so thanks a bunch to the board and my buddies here for allowing this movie nut to gorge on a beautiful film in so many ways

[ednbarby]

What I'm finding with this movie, like anything that happens in the mainstream that is powerful enough to change people's lives, is that it's showing me who my true friends are.  And the people I aspire to having as friends.  I know very well from how disappointing it is when a longtime friend or close family member just doesn't get it.  I've had one of each - a woman friend and my father - just not have a clue.

But I was fortunate enough to have had three people come through for me in different ways about it in the last few days.  The first was my husband, who was so profoundly moved by it on his second viewing (and first DVD viewing) that he cried openly in front of me - he didn't do that the first time in the theater - just got a little misty and did that I'm-Such-A-Guy-And-There's-Something-In-My-Eye thing.  He has never once cried openly, as in tears running down his face, in all the time I've known him.  And though we didn't talk as much about it afterwards as I would have liked (I've kinda backed off and let him have that delayed reaction we know so much about), he did say some profoundly positive things, for him, about it like "You're right - that *is* a great movie."  First of all, I can't remember when he's *ever* uttered the words, "You're right," at least not to me.    Second of all, the only other movie I've ever heard him describe as "great" is "Snow Falling On Cedars," which he also describes to others as the best movie he's ever seen.  His other favorites are "Casablanca," "2001: A Space Odyssey," "Dr. Strangelove," and "Citizen Kane," to name a few, so he's no slouch in the Taste category.

Then, yesterday, a longtime woman friend and I went and saw a really crappy movie the title of which I'm almost embarassed to admit here ("Failure to Launch" - gag).  It was not my choice, believe me.  She usually likes pretty pedestrian stuff, not to sound snobby, and she's one of the ones I described as someone vying to be an ex-friend months ago because she said she had no interest in ever seeing this one.  So you can imagine how floored I was when, as we were talking about how lame the movie we'd just seen was, she said, "There hasn't been a really good love story out there for a while now.  But I hear that one you liked, that "Brokeback Mountain," is one of the best love stories ever made.  Would you say it is?"  Well, duh.  I've only *been* saying that for the last two months, now.  What I actually said was "Yes, I would.  You should see it, if you can get past any reservations you might have because it's a gay love story."  She goes, "Oh, seeing gay sex doesn't bother me.  I had just thought I wouldn't be able to relate to it."  Uh, you do like men, don't you?  WHATever.  Anyway, the fact that she's willing to see it floored me.  She goes, "I take it you own it already, huh?"  I said, "Hell, yeah."  She says, "Can I borrow it the next time we get together?  I'd really like to see it."  Turns out she had just been to Chicago for a week for a family reunion with her four sisters (she's one of 10 siblings), and three out of four of them RAVED about it - the other one just hadn't seen it yet.

Finally, I had lent my other copy out for the weekend to a straight male co-worker who sees a lot of movies and has good taste.  He brought it back today and said that he and his wife "really, REALLY liked it - it was a great movie."  He was on his way to a meeting and didn't have time to chat about it, but we talk a lot about the movies we both like and recommend to each other, so I'm hoping to hear some of his insights soon.

I know what you all mean, though.  This is one of the high points in the saga that is my never-ending obsession with and promotion of this movie.  There have been some equally low ones and there are bound to be some more.  But I think the fact that it remains the #1 rental at Netflix and is probably #1 for DVD sales just goes to show that the more people who actually see it, the more people who want to.  And they told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on, and so on.  

[Lumière]

What I'm finding with this movie, like anything that happens in the mainstream that is powerful enough to change people's lives, is that it's showing me who my true friends are.  And the people I aspire to having as friends.  I know very well from how disappointing it is when a longtime friend or close family member just doesn't get it.  

Oh how I agree with you on this one.   

A few years ago, I was going through a pretty rough time in my life, emotional crises, job problems, trying to resolve alot of issues with/about myself, and boy, did I ever discover who my true friends were!
Granted, some people won't relate to this movie like some of us on here do, but comments from friends/family sometimes opens your eyes to parts of them that are otherwise hidden or dormant.

yaadpyar - I agree with you on the song "Killing me softly" by the Fugees..what a mood that song puts me in!

[YaadPyar]

yaadpyar - I agree with you on the song "Killing me softly" by the Fugees..what a mood that song puts me in!

I love the intensity of that song, and how it reminds me so much of my BBM experience.  i'm torn between the Roberta Flack original and the Fugees cover of it.  Lauryn Hill's voice is amaaaaaaaazing.

[chefjudy]

  I only know of the Roberta Flack version, but it is one of the most hauting songs ever.................

[starboardlight]

it never occurred to me that a movie could change my life. it also never occurred to me that a movie could show me who my true friends are.

When I first saw the film, I felt like it was my life and soul up there. Many of you might have read my post about how painful it was to relive the painful times of my life through Ennis. I felt that if you get this film, I mean really understand it, then you understand deeply a part of my soul. I wanted everyone in my life to at least see the film. I even secretly hoped they'd be moved by it like I was.

I've mellowed out a bit. I don't demand that my friends understand the film in the same way. I guess it's okay that they don't connect with it as deeply. Some have, and as we shared our emotions, it feels like we have a bond that very few people can build. Certainly, with you all, I've gotten to know so intimately because of this film. For the family and friends who don't "get" me, I've come to say that it's okay. It's like my art. I have a deep passion for image making and designing. I don't really share that with my family because they don't have the same passion for it. Or how I don't have the same passion for hockey that some of my friends do. We are in different place in life, and we have different concerns. Our souls are on different planes, and that's fine. That we have other things in common to come together about is great.

Where the lines is drawn, however, is if the people in my life choose to belittle me for my passion for the film. If they say "Get over it", that's it. They get no second chance. Everyone knows that this film is important to me. They don't have to like it, but they are not allowed to be disrespectful toward my feelings. Those are the people who try to make me compartmentalize my passion, to make it into a secret and that just hit too close to those high school years where I felt like I had to be closeted. The film woke me up, and I won't go back there. If any of my friends can't understand that, then they're not my friends.

[RouxB]

See Nipith, you have brought me to tears-I don't know much, but I know I love you and that may be all I need to know

the colored girl in the black cowboy boots.

[ednbarby]

"Where the lines is drawn, however, is if the people in my life choose to belittle me for my passion for the film. If they say "Get over it", that's it. They get no second chance. Everyone knows that this film is important to me. They don't have to like it, but they are not allowed to be disrespectful toward my feelings. Those are the people who try to make me compartmentalize my passion, to make it into a secret and that just hit too close to those high school years where I felt like I had to be closeted. The film woke me up, and I won't go back there. If any of my friends can't understand that, then they're not my friends."

___________________

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about, too, Nipith.  If someone I care about sees it and it doesn't resonate with them for whatever reasons, I can accept that.  But if they refuse to see it on my recommendation (and they're the type of person who normally does enjoy seeing new and innovative movies and/or movies I recommend), or if they belittle or condescend to me for having such passion about it, they're done.  Doesn't mean I never speak to them again - I'm not that militant.  But it does mean that anything of significance they have to say from there on out has absolutely zero credibility with me.  If that sounds unforgiving and cold, so be it.  I find people who are supposed to be my good friends taking my word that this is a great, transcendental film that everyone should see as having apparently zero credibility as being equally so.  And in the case of people like you, Nipith, who have lived their story to a large extent, I'm sorry, but anyone close to you who can't at least sympathize with what it must mean to you upon seeing it and at least try to be sensitive to that when they talk with you about it aren't very good friends at all.  Not only that, but they're not very warm and caring people, either.

[YaadPyar]

I'm fascinated with these responses.  I'm disappointed when someone doesn't at least like the movie.  I think it's so polarizing because as Nipith said, BBM tells my story, and if they don't get that, if they don't get the movie, then how can they get me?

And when folks react with homophobia or concerns about the morality of the film, it shows me that our value for humanity and its frailty are world's apart.  I've been pretty fortunate to be surrounded by supportive people, who kind of get a kick out of my intensity and interest. 

I've never felt so represented by a work of art, so invested in it, and so personally connected to it.  I love, love, love the Tao Te Ching,  Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Siddhartha, but have always known there were many who wouldn't relate to those books. 

What I didn't know is how a story, not a philosophy, could change me so much - hit me so hard.  I didn't know how self-selecting, self-defined we'd be as a group, those of us who were 'got good' by BBM. 

[ednbarby]

That's a very good point, too, Celeste - when someone reacts in a homophobic way or thinks it "promotes adultery" (AAAAGGHH!), I also feel I'm pretty much done talking to them on any kind of a serious level, because, as you said, our viewpoints on the frailties of the human condition and compassion for our fellow human beings are too vastly opposed.  Generally, I've found that the same people who didn't react passionately about the *proven* ineptitude of our "leadership" after hurricane Katrina are, lo and behold, largely the very same people who have no interest in seeing this movie, or in having seen it, don't find it the least bit touching.  Again, it just really separates the men from the boys for me.  And I'm not ashamed to admit it.  As my husband said about the Academy on Black Sunday, fuck 'em if they don't get it.

[Lumière]

To add to what Celeste said -
It shows a singular lack of human compassion when people don't just focus on the fact that love is sacred and pure when shared between 2 human beings, regardless of gender. 

This buddy of mine who is so 'against homosexuality and not gay people themselves' , claims that people can 'overcome' the 'temptation' of being with someone of the opposite sex.  I mean, how do you even start arguing with a statement like that?!  Sometimes I have wondered about my relationship with her because of these views.  That friendship is automatically curbed because there are some intimate things that I could never discuss with her.  The other day, we were at the video store and I was looking to rent some movies from the Gay&Lesbian section and she wouldn't even stand there with me, let alone check out the movies  ...

I guess it is a fact of life that not all of life's journeys will be shared by the people who are close to you...some walks in life are solitary.  That's how I see it I guess.

[Chanterais]

Oooh, Yadie, good thread.  Good posts, all of you.

Last week I went out to dinner with some friends that I hadn't seen in about six months.  Two bottles of wine later, my friend Will (straight, not that it matters) announced, "Well, I just saw the most amazing movie.  Brokeback Mountain - have you seen it?"  I smiled and nodded, and everyone else at the table chimed in and said "Oh my God, wasn't it incredible?"  They all nattered on about it for fifteen minutes or so, until the conversation evolved into something else, and I just sat there and listened to them, delighted in their excitement.  I thought about telling them about how much I loved the film, and about you guys, and about our wonderful connection with the Tremblays, but I didn't. 

On the way home, my boyfriend asked me why I had kept so quiet, and I told him that in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.  I can write about it, but when I try to talk about it, my brain goes all soggy and I can't get the words to work.  It all sounds so inadequate.

Also, I love having private passions.  Unlike some Tremblayans, I have been affected like this by a few other films and novels, though not many.  It's part of my emotional make-up to be drawn deeply into things.  My family are all sensible pragmatists (but nice ones), and so I learned very early on to keep some of my feverish obsessions for myself.  It's a pleasure to have a secret.  I don't have to expose my beloved little passion to their scorn or ambivalence, but I can treasure it in my own way.

I also don't feel overly angry at my friends who haven't taken to Brokeback in the same way, because I know I've read books and watched movies that are deeply important to them, and *whisper it*  hated them.  It's terrible when that happens.  You want so badly to love them, but you can't.  People are moved by different things, and at different times in their lives.  C'est la vie.

Are secrets and lies always insidious?  I don't know, but I don't think so.  I may be distinctly in the minority here, but I'm not convinced that honesty is always the best policy.  Sometimes I want people to lie to me.  The truth can be a terrible weapon.

[Ray]

I told him that in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.

This is the EXACT way I feel about the film.  I gave up discussing it a while back simply because I couldn't get my head around the indiferrence that my friends displayed.  My sister told me that the credits woke her up.  A work mate asked how many of the sheep were real. A cousin said "Meh, maybe I just haven't felt hurt badly enough to relate to it." Even my best mate, a gay man who I see very much as an Ennis, rolled his eyes when I pressed for discussion about the movie, signing "uhoh, here comes another addiction!"  So I keep it to myself, and in doing so I find I'm keeping to myself.

[Ellemeno]

So I keep it to myself, and in doing so I find I'm keeping to myself.

Beautiful phrasing, Ray, and describes me too. 

...in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.  I can write about it, but when I try to talk about it, my brain goes all soggy and I can't get the words to work.  It all sounds so inadequate.

This describes me too.  I feel like when I do try to talk about it with people who are not-you-guys, I sound like "Me...like...Brokeback Mountain."  Nothing of worth comes out.

So I went out and saw my friends this morning.  The most honest (re BBM) that I got was saying that I've been out of practice talking as much as usual, and didn't quite know where to start.  I wound up mostly catching up on what's been going on with them (feeling like a bad friend that I hadn't been keeping up like I usually would have) and when I did talk, I mostly talked about parenting stuff, which is always a fascinating topic for me.  So I came home feeling better, more connected to my friends, but still pretty clogged (referencing my earlier post).  I am going to try Chanterais's philosophy quoted below and see if it can fit me.  I like it.

Also, I love having private passions.  Unlike some Tremblayans, I have been affected like this by a few other films and novels, though not many.  It's part of my emotional make-up to be drawn deeply into things.  My family are all sensible pragmatists (but nice ones), and so I learned very early on to keep some of my feverish obsessions for myself.  It's a pleasure to have a secret.  I don't have to expose my beloved little passion to their scorn or ambivalence, but I can treasure it in my own way.

[YaadPyar]

... my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.  I can write about it, but when I try to talk about it, my brain goes all soggy and I can't get the words to work.  It all sounds so inadequate.

I really do relate to this.  I can be articulate and thoughtful and insightful about so many things, but ask me how I feel, and words totally fail me.  I cannot speak of my emotions or they disappear into vapor.  I am not being coy, but truly they are incompatible with the crisp definitions that words create. 

I wonder if this is why we're so comfortable with the many silences of this film - because we need the space without the words to deeply feel what's in our own hearts.

I've read books and watched movies that are deeply important to them, and *whisper it*  hated them.  It's terrible when that happens.  You want so badly to love them, but you can't.  People are moved by different things, and at different times in their lives. 

True again.  I'm so glad mostly that people have stopped recommending anything to me.  I think I am a constant disappointment to anyone who expects me to like what they like.  I try, but it just almost never works.  I try to be less opinionated, but it seems to be hard-wired.

Are secrets and lies always insidious?  I don't know, but I don't think so. 

It's so interesting to read this, and think more deeply about myself.  I try to have no lies, but I live in secret in so many ways without even being aware of it.  I don't think of myself as secretive, but I'm very private, in ways that most people never know about, because it's the nature of being private.  And I love that feeling, of having a special place in myself that belongs only to me, that no one else can touch. 

I love all the thoughtful responses - they're helping me think more deeply about all this. 

[delalluvia]

Great idea for a thread yaad, I get the impression from reading that some of us have never had an obsessive pasttime before so the 'have to hide' situation is a new experience.

Not to trivialize BBM or how people's real lives have been affected (that's the right word, correct?) and reflected in anyway, but this is how the adult Star Wars/LOTR/Star Trek/Harry Potter etc., geeks feel all the time.

They're crazy fans and all their friends know it.  It's probably embarrassing to all but the most ardent fans that they write online stories, chat with one another, send little snippets of news, read all the latest books (yes, it's embarrassing for a grown woman to go purchase Star Wars Scholastic books because they're intended for pre-teen readers, yet they may have additional plot points, so you show up at Borders and pretend you're buying them for a niece or nephew (except for those rare times when the clerk selling them to you has a Darth Vader tattoo).

With your friends and family it's sometimes like Silent Bob and Jay, you have these great discussions on how the fall of the Star Wars Republic mirrors the fall of the ancient Roman republic or your family and friends hear a tidbit and just know you'd be interested and go out of their way to tell you.  The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits).  But most of the time you never mention it and unless someone ELSE brings it up.

Then you gush.

[YaadPyar]

The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits). 

Good point...the hidden lives of those standing in plain sight...  I have a friend at work who has a flip phone, and every time he open it, it makes the Star Trek tranponder sound. 

I think I'm going to watch the DVD tonight when I get back from running errands.  I haven't watched it all the way through even once, and think maybe I should, and see if I can understand some of this stuff more clearly.

[monimm18]

Unbelievable! I gotta share this with you. Celeste, your thread made me ponder a lot. As I was considering (again) my friends' reactions to the film and to my love for it, I came to the conclusion that there's only one friend who probably would understand my obsession with BBM and would enjoy talking about this film. She lives in Minneapolis and she hates long phone conversations, so we usually catch  up on our friedship when we visit each other.
 
So, while I am having warm  thoughts about my open-minded friend, I notice she sent me an email. I open it, and it's a joke she sent to everyone of her friends. It said: "I am not a fan of sequels, but this looks like a good one!" There was an attachment. I open it, and this is what I see (see attachment).

I cannot begin to describe how dissapointed and duped I felt. There's another one for whom I lose respect...

So, now, all I have is y'all. The guy I date loved the film and comiserated with me until right after the Oscars, then he moved on. I learned to hide the fact that I still think about this film often, but you are right, Celeste, hiding it is causing some sort of damage, makes me feel a bit like there's a side of me that's not normal, because it's unacceptable.  

... The hell it is!  

[Chanterais]

The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits). 

How great is that?  I love it when people are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  I'm a closet weirdo, skulking around in the corners of my bizarre little preoccupations, pretending like they're not really mine.  I adore benign oddness in other people.  I just wish I could own up to my own.  I should probably make it clear, however, that I'm not planning a Star Wars - themed wedding.  And if anyone does show up dressed as a Wookie, you're getting seated on the groom's side.  End of discussion.

I feel like when I do try to talk about it with people who are not-you-guys, I sound like "Me...like...Brokeback Mountain." 

And Elle once again wins the goldfish in a baggie for pithiest deconstruction.  Spot on.  What are you going to call your new friend? 

And I love that feeling, of having a special place in myself that belongs only to me, that no one else can touch. 

*Adriana nods sagely*  I'm always a little nervous around people who spill their guts right away.  Not many people have access to my tender little secrets, and even then there are some things, like tiny white grubs, that never have the brick lifted off them.

[ednbarby]

I love it when people are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  I'm a closet weirdo, skulking around in the corners of my bizarre little preoccupations, pretending like they're not really mine.  I adore benign oddness in other people.

Phew!  Am I glad to hear that.  Because I *am* one of those people who are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  When I went through my Overwhelming-Infatuation-With-Joseph-Fiennes-And-All-Things-Shakespeare-In-Love phase eight years ago (has it been that long?), I had photos of him (only as Will Shakespeare, mind you) and Gwyneth Paltrow and Judi Dench, but OK, mostly of Joseph Fiennes as Will Shakespeare plastered all over my cube.  It was like a shrine.  People stopped by just because they'd heard about it and wanted to check it out.  I'm obsessive but I'm no fool - I know they had a good little laugh at my expense every so often.  But they still came to ask me for my movie recommendations, or to help them remember this actor's or that director's name whenever they couldn't - "Oh, ask Barb.  She'll know."  And they said that with only a smidgeon of mocking in their tone.

The other day, I was talking with a longtime co-worker about movies (what else?), and she was saying how she'd just rented "The Merchant of Venice" - the version with Al Pacino "and that guy you used to be ga ga over - what was his name, again?"

I like to hope they all find my little obsessions amusing, endearing, and only slightly frightening.

*Adriana nods sagely*  I'm always a little nervous around people who spill their guts right away.  Not many people have access to my tender little secrets, and even then there are some things, like tiny white grubs, that never have the brick lifted off them.

I hear you, here.  As nutty as I am, I do try to keep it under locks for at least the first few minutes.  I took Will to the park yesterday morning, and got chatting with a lovely young father who was there with his two adorable little tykes, one of whom had a pacifier in her mouth (but she couldn't have been more than two).  I didn't say a word about it - Will had a pacifier in his day, too - but he must get it a lot, so he goes, out of the clear blue sky "Yeah.  She's still got that pacifier.  But I figure it's better than letting her suck her thumb.  I sucked my thumb until I was 12.  Used to put aloe on it just to make it taste bad so I wouldn't.  But then I'd just lick it off and suck it some more."  I'm like, WHOA.  TMI Alert, guy!!!  Good grief!  What *don't* you tell complete strangers?

[YaadPyar]

I remember thinking about Russell Crowe non-stop after A Beautiful Mind.  He is just so incredibly talented, and for my money one of the best actors alive.  I was so blown away by his willingness to open himself completely to a character - to fully inhabit the life of another, and put everything he had into it.  Folks complain about Russell Crowe, and granted, he's got some emotional control issues, but he puts it out there for everyone to see and feel.

Heath and Jake did that in BBM, and I think the character of Jack did that.  And it just breaks my heart that Ennis could never fully move past his own hesitation. 

This isn't about me finding true love - I have that as I want/need in my life.  But it's about expressing something that hidden for so long, which is what's in my heart.  I NEVER have a moment of trouble saying what's on my mind, but can hardly ever share what's in my heart.

So even though I can't talk about the movie with everyone, I've stopped fencing everything in.  I can be friendly enough, but I've been too careful about not letting life or even people touch me.  I don't want to keep that same distance anymore, and don't really need to.  I feel like now I've got something to bring to the party, and I'm gonna give it a bit of a try.

These changes are so subtle.  I don't know that anyone else can see them at all, but I feel them.  And I feel lighter and freer and more relaxed.  Not having an outlet for myself made me so critical of others - them being what I couldn't - but now I haven't the will to impose such violence on myself...to force mysefl into such a small corner of my heart and try to live that way.

I am so appreciative of being able to have a place to learn all these things about myself, to share a bit of this journey and not feel so alone in it.  I am so grateful not to be Ennis or to be my father, looking back in regret at what might have been.

[ednbarby]

What a beautiful post, Celeste.  I must add something about Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind.  Honestly, overall I didn't care for the movie - I thought they kind of trivialized schizophrenia in a way.  And it bothers me that they wrote a lie into it - that the man it's based on actually cured himself of it with his wife's love.  That's not true, and it's not possible.  But Russell Crowe, in spite of that, blew me away.  And he did it in just one scene.  It was a scene where he was looking at himself in the mirror.  And he was terrified because he didn't recognize who he saw looking back.  And he *nailed* it.  I know from that experience, because I've had it myself.  Three days after Will was born, post-partum depression rolled over me like a Mack truck.  I didn't see it coming.  In that hormonal/chemical onslaught, all traces of me were lost.  I still remember looking in my bathroom mirror and seeing someone I didn't recognize looking back at me.  Do you ever have dreams in which you see yourself in a mirror, but it's a completely different person looking back at you?  All my life I had those dreams.  But this happened in my waking life.  Odd thing - A Beautiful Mind was the first movie I went to see in the theater after Will was born.  He was about 8 weeks old.  My husband was home and he said, "Why don't you go get out of the house for a while.  Go to the beach or see a movie - I've got things covered here."  My tradition for years and years was to make a point to see all five Academy Awards nominees (not anymore, but that's another post).  I knew I probably didn't have a chance of doing that that year, but I figured I'd pick whichever one was showing and go with that.

Like I say, a lot of the rest of the movie bothered me.  But I still can't shake the exact way his face and eyes looked when he was looking in the mirror at himself in that scene.  Other actors have done the same kind of scene, I'm sure many times over.  But none has left the same impression on me.  Had I not been experiencing it myself at the time, I probably wouldn't have fully appreciated it.  But I've seen actors try their hand at it since, and none have come close to how perfectly he just got it.

Hell, I remember even saying to Ed around that time, "Do I look different to you?"  He said, "In what way?"  I said, "My face - does my face look like it's changed somehow?"  He just looked at me in an odd way and said, "Well if you mean has having a baby changed your face like it does some women's (we had talked about that in the early months of the pregnancy - that I was afraid it would somehow alter my face in that way it sometimes does), no - it's just the same as it's always been."  Yet I saw a completely different person.  I saw the person in my subconscious - in my dreams.  It was the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced.

What's equally incredible about Heath's and Jake's performances, I think, is that they're so damned good, they can take those of us who've never experienced exactly what those characters have experienced and make us believe it is absolutely real.  My husband said it today talking about it - "It was like watching a really good documentary."  And this is a guy who loves documentaries.  In other words, he felt like those characters were real.  I'm guessing you haven't experienced clinical depression, Celeste.  And yet Russell Crowe could make you feel mental illness in your bones as if it were your own, am I right?  THAT'S acting.  All of these men are legendary in their craft.  And thank goodness they're so young and just beginning.  It's like watching Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate at the time it first came out.  His whole career is yet to unfold.  Like these men's now.  I can't wait to watch that happen.

[Aussie Chris]

Hi everyone, so Aussie Chris finally dips his toe into the Chez Tremblay pool (thanks for the invite Celeste).

I am only now coming to terms with the emotional effects of BBM, or they are only now being felt on a level far deeper than I even knew existed, some three months after first seeing it.  I got all upset and devastated like everyone else over the whole "what have I been doing with my life" thing, but somehow I managed to distance myself by intellectualising my emotions.  For better or for worse, I now seem unable to continue with that little charade.

I really struggle to put these feelings into words, so any attempt to discuss them with non-Brokaholics seems a waste of everyone’s time.  Actually, I don't know if I even want to share this with anyone who's not a Brokie, but then again I don't have people that I confide on this level with anyway, so I guess I can afford to be a little dismissive of the concern.  Is that selfish?  Well anyway, the weight that now sits on my heart tells me that I don't need to add any more challenges to my coping skills, and the "concerned" and in some cases "terrified" faces of friends and family if I try to talk to them are definitely not helpful.

One thing that's occurred to me is that I don't think I could have come as far as I have without being able to talk to all you folks, and the "remoteness" has actually worked in my favour because I could always turn the computer off - not that I did of course, just stuck to the quieter forums.  So be gentle with me as I pick out a comfy chair in the Chez Tremblay forum and start to work on some of these issues.

[Sheyne]

I told him that in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.

This is the EXACT way I feel about the film.  I gave up discussing it a while back simply because I couldn't get my head around the indiferrence that my friends displayed.  My sister told me that the credits woke her up.  A work mate asked how many of the sheep were real. A cousin said "Meh, maybe I just haven't felt hurt badly enough to relate to it." Even my best mate, a gay man who I see very much as an Ennis, rolled his eyes when I pressed for discussion about the movie, signing "uhoh, here comes another addiction!"  So I keep it to myself, and in doing so I find I'm keeping to myself.

You don't have to keep to yourself with me, Ray. You know that.  *hugs*

But I agree with you.  My family just roll my eyes and sneer and do the "oh, so this is the latest obsession" *sigh*. So I just hide it as much as I can, letting it run free when I'm here or when Ray and I get together and we can talk till we're blue in the face if we want to.

I have hidden this from everybody around me.  I mean, i was jaw-on-the-floor stunned when I put on my sexy Malaysian bootleg copy last night and watched it while having dinner and my sister walked through, groaned audibly and gave some snide remark like "not this crap again" (she saw it with me at the movies and liked it enough to call it "stunning", "incredible" etc, but she's one of these people who just see movies once and forget them). Anyway, walked through the lounge, made the comment and then she stopped at the stairs. I said nothing to her remark, nor did I look at her, but peripherally I could see her.  And she turned around and walked back and sat down on the lounge and did her crossword, half working, half watching the movie.  She knows how much I've seen it.  When we got to Jack's rodeo dance for Ennis, she burst out laughing and said "forgot how funny that was". When we got to the first tent scene, she says "is it true that he puts Ennis's hand on his dick?" I replied very casually "Yep".  When Ennis rides away without a word, she asked "why didn't he say anything?" I explained that to the best of my ability, feeling a little buzz of excitement at her interest. When we saw the shot of Ennis's hat approaching that gap in the tent, she said "did he take his hat off to cover his hard-on or cause he wanted to be a gentleman?"  I replied, probably a little of both, but what do you think?

And the whole way through the movie, she made little observations. As the credits rolled, she stood up and walked away without a word.

But I found my bootleg in her room this morning.

There's hope yet, guys.

[Ray]

This is a great thread Celeste.  I'm very much enjoying every post.  I agree with Chanteraise and the gold fish in the bag for Elle.  PML at

"Me...like...Brokeback Mountain."

[YaadPyar]

One thing that's occurred to me is that I don't think I could have come as far as I have without being able to talk to all you folks, and the "remoteness" has actually worked in my favour because I could always turn the computer off - not that I did of course, just stuck to the quieter forums.  So be gentle with me as I pick out a comfy chair in the Chez Tremblay forum and start to work on some of these issues.

Oh Chris - do pull up a chair and set a spell, and visit with us until we run out of words, and then we'll sit, each rocking in our own chairs, chewing on a piece of hay, enjoying the companionable silence.

[YaadPyar]

I agree with Chanteraise and the gold fish in the bag for Elle.  PML at

"Me...like...Brokeback Mountain."

Elle wins some CT award for this one for sure.  Do you hear it in your head every time you read it?  Too funny.

[henrypie]

Thanks Celeste for starting the thread, Elle and Chant and Barb in particular for posts that really did it for me.

Ah, it does feel good to talk about this and I must say, what a gift to have many voices ringing in.

I must say, I'm detaching a bit from the wall of Brokeback Mountain.  Maybe I'm shifting down, gettin' ready to be born.  If you've noticed, I haven't been around that much, not more than a post or two a day.  I'm a little galled not to be even a Brokeback Resident when in fact Brokeback Got Me Good, but I've been pouring energy into other things, and I'm not unhappy about that at all -- I've been exercising, finishing a demo CD, working on some crafty things that I'm totally in love with, working on the house with my husband, learning fun, difficult music.  I'm HAPPY.  This is cool.  I'm not saying that sadness breeds Brokeback love or vice-versa (although it's possible), but I'm focused on myself.  I still haven't watched my DVD.

I'm not getting kicked out of the treehouse, am I?  The fact that on some levels I'm putting Brokeback away makes it no less special to me... I
feel no less tenderness toward the first guy I ever loved just because I'm not in love with him anymore.  Now we're good friends.  (He's gay.)

What really feels fresh to me here, still, is discussions of layers of meaning.  Another thing I've been doing is reading, something I got very lazy about for awhile, which Brokeback reawoke.  In all I read (and in all movies I see), I'm looking for a connection that approaches the one I had with Brokeback.  I don't tend to get it, but it's as if I know what I'm looking for now.  Right now I'm reading the Forsyte Saga -- how un-Brokeback.  But I'm hoping, looking, waiting, to be moved.

[YaadPyar]

I must say, I'm detaching a bit from the wall of Brokeback Mountain.  Maybe I'm shifting down, gettin' ready to be born.  If you've noticed, I haven't been around that much.

I'm not getting kicked out of the treehouse, am I?  The fact that on some levels I'm putting Brokeback away makes it no less special to me...

I've certainly noticed, but that seems as it should - that we take all this back into our daily lives and plant the seeds and watch them grow there.

There's no getting 'kicked-out', no how, no way.   

[serious crayons]

I really hope I don't put anybody off, but I'll have to confess that I am way more Ennis-like than you guys about my obsession. Beyond praising the movie to the skies (which I do to everyone I know), I don't tell anybody about the extent of my obsession because I know how weird they would think it is, because I myself would think it was weird if it weren't happening to me. I have always felt Trekkies and Star-Wars fanatics were a little weird. I have always felt people who spend all their free time chatting with strangers on computer message boards were a little weird. And now that I've become one of those people, I guess I'm just not confident enough to boldly proclaim my eccentricity to others and let them take it or leave it. Those of you who can do that have my admiration, but I'm more self-conscious than that.

So there's only one person in the world, my best friend, who even comes close to knowing about it (she herself has seen it four times and checked out the imdb board), but even to her I haven't admitted the full extent of my involvement in these message boards (and of course she doesn't even know about this one's existence). Most people -- husband, kids, other friends -- think I've seen the movie only two or three times (real answer: seven). And even when I tell them that much, they look at me strangely, which makes me uncomfortable. The last time I mentioned something about it to my best friend, she said, "You're scaring me." She likes the movie a lot but is not obsessed. So I guess from now on I will shut up with her, too. As I said in an earlier post, I did mention in passing the seven-times figure to my therapist, and when she gave me an odd look I decided not to go into it with her, either.

Another part of it, though, is that after all these months, that friend is the only person I know who has EVEN SEEN THE MOVIE. I'm really baffled by this. My friends aren't homophobes, and most of them like movies. I don't know why they haven't taken my urgent advice to see it, or even responded to all the reviews and the post-Oscar backlash. But that's their problem. They don't know what they're missing.

When they finally do see it, I will also judge them according to their reaction. If they don't like it at all, I'll be appalled and disappointed and scornful. If they love it, I will be pleased. But I frankly don't expect anybody to share my reaction and start thinking about it day and night.

After all, I think we're pretty special, when you consider how few people in the world, out of all the people who've seen it, are like us. There are the couple hundred of us on this board, plus the people on the imdb board and Dave Cullen's board and I guess you'd include those who've made YouTube tribute videos and so forth. And there are probably some poor souls who are equally obsessed but don't know about the message boards and therefore don't have any outlet for their feelings. On the one hand, that's a lot of people, but on the other it's a fraction of all those who've seen it and probably enjoyed it in a more limited way.

Anyway, all this is to say that I am grateful on a daily basis to have found you guys. We might not have anything else in common, but the fact that we are all on the same page about this one thing is, I think, something to be cherished.

Someday I hope, like Sarah, to find my obsession fading, because it really is interfering with my productivity, and also because I get uncomfortable keeping this huge secret from everyone I know. But every time I start to feel even for a moment like I might be drifting away from Brokeback I get sad. It has become such an important part of my inner life that I am just not ready to let it go yet.

[henrypie]

To get a little closer to topic: my friends don't know the extent, the depth, of the obsession.  My sister probably comes closest to understanding, and my dear dear husband sees all the outward behavior and, to his enormous credit, accepts the unfathomable, to him, motivations below.  (If we could fathom each other, what would we argue about?  Bah, no fun.)  I definitely have the Me Like Brokeback syndrome, and if I find myself inarticulate on a subject, GOD FORBID, I shut me mouth.

And to veer back off-topic, I must say that the very presence of you guys in my life started to skew my relationship with Brokeback Mountain early on.  I became as interested, and eventually more interested, in my new friends than in the thing that brought us together.

[ednbarby]

This is a great thread Celeste.  I'm very much enjoying every post.  I agree with Chanteraise and the gold fish in the bag for Elle.  PML at

"Me...like...Brokeback Mountain."

I PML at that one, too, Ray.  It must be another aspect of The Fever - I simply cannot adequately articulate by using my vocal apparatus what this movie means to me or even why, exactly, it is by far the best movie I have ever seen.  Not even to the fellow Brokies in my non-cyber world.  I wonder if I would be able to if not for the existence of this place and all of you beautiful people in it, just out of necessity alone.  I still think not.

[Chanterais]

So even though I can't talk about the movie with everyone, I've stopped fencing everything in.  I can be friendly enough, but I've been too careful about not letting life or even people touch me.  I don't want to keep that same distance anymore, and don't really need to.  I feel like now I've got something to bring to the party, and I'm gonna give it a bit of a try.

These changes are so subtle.  I don't know that anyone else can see them at all, but I feel them.  And I feel lighter and freer and more relaxed.  Not having an outlet for myself made me so critical of others - them being what I couldn't - but now I haven't the will to impose such violence on myself...to force mysefl into such a small corner of my heart and try to live that way.

I am so appreciative of being able to have a place to learn all these things about myself, to share a bit of this journey and not feel so alone in it.  I am so grateful not to be Ennis or to be my father, looking back in regret at what might have been.

I love you Yadie.  You're such a smarty-pants.  Let's be friends.

And to veer back off-topic, I must say that the very presence of you guys in my life started to skew my relationship with Brokeback Mountain early on.  I became as interested, and eventually more interested, in my new friends than in the thing that brought us together.

Same here.  I feel a bit sheepish admitting that, like I don't deserve my Brokeaholic status.  But getting to know some of you folks has in many ways been even more moving than the film.  I've never been part of an on-line community before, and it had been wondrous and pleasureable beyond my imagination.

So be gentle with me as I pick out a comfy chair in the Chez Tremblay forum and start to work on some of these issues.

Oh, AC, you're always, always welcome.  And don't worry, all the chairs are comfy here.  Except that blue one in the corner - the springs are a bit dodgy.

When I went through my Overwhelming-Infatuation-With-Joseph-Fiennes-And-All-Things-Shakespeare-In-Love phase eight years ago (has it been that long?), I had photos of him (only as Will Shakespeare, mind you) and Gwyneth Paltrow and Judi Dench, but OK, mostly of Joseph Fiennes as Will Shakespeare plastered all over my cube.  It was like a shrine.  People stopped by just because they'd heard about it and wanted to check it out.  I'm obsessive but I'm no fool - I know they had a good little laugh at my expense every so often.  But they still came to ask me for my movie recommendations, or to help them remember this actor's or that director's name whenever they couldn't - "Oh, ask Barb.  She'll know."  And they said that with only a smidgeon of mocking in their tone.

The other day, I was talking with a longtime co-worker about movies (what else?), and she was saying how she'd just rented "The Merchant of Venice" - the version with Al Pacino "and that guy you used to be ga ga over - what was his name, again?"

I like to hope they all find my little obsessions amusing, endearing, and only slightly frightening.

Barb, you're so wonderful.  I love your obsessions.  You're like a dog (maybe Layla) with a bone, getting every last bit of goodness from whatever you latch on to.  And I admire how you don't disown your past infatuations. 

However, I'm a little alarmed at your infidelity to Ralph.  Although, with Joe's brown puppy eyes, I do understand the temptation to stray.  I have to ask, though: is your sweet little duckie named Will in honour of a certain someone?

But I find you so endearing, amusing, insightful, and not at all frightening.  How lucky am I to have gotten to know you?

[YaadPyar]

I love you Yadie.  You're such a smarty-pants.  Let's be friends.

Oh - it's completely mutual, don't ya know.  I'm pretty sure we already are friends!

After the 'apple pie' thingy on the "What We Learned About Food & Drink from BBM" on IMDb, you were marked as a friend for sure.  No one that funny gets away from me...

[Ellemeno]

And Elle once again wins the goldfish in a baggie for pithiest deconstruction.  Spot on.  What are you going to call your new friend? 

Wow, the pot calling the kettle black!  I'm honored, Chantiepie.  The first answer that came to mind, after reading recent posts, is "Little Ennis."  He don''t go up there to fish. 

Or maybe "Pithy."  Have you heard why W.C. Fields never drank water?  Supposedly he said it was, "Because fish piss in it."  So "Pithy" would be a good name all around.

This reminds me to wopnder how the real godlfish Ray gave Sheyne is doing.  Not that the one you gave me isn't real, Chantie.

[isabelle]

I told him that in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.

  So I keep it to myself, and in doing so I find I'm keeping to myself.

Yes, both of you, this is me too. I have one great girlfriend who loved the film - albeit not a quarter as much as I did - who knows I've been spending time on these boards getting to love complete strangers, but after a while I can see she wants to talk about something else.
The saddest thing is that the person who is supposed to be the closest to me - yes, you've guessed who - doesn't even know exactly how many times I've seen BBM at the theater, did not want to come see it with me, and that has dug a gap between us. I always used to think the only reason I could bear living with the same person for so long was that I had my secret garden (nothing 'bad'!), but this is too much of a ridge between us. I feel it is me, the essential me, that he knows nothing about and maybe would not understand if he knew. I don't want to sound sad, I am not really, but keeping more and more to myself, or to you all, yeah, for sure.

[ednbarby]

Barb, you're so wonderful.  I love your obsessions.  You're like a dog (maybe Layla) with a bone, getting every last bit of goodness from whatever you latch on to.  And I admire how you don't disown your past infatuations. 

However, I'm a little alarmed at your infidelity to Ralph.  Although, with Joe's brown puppy eyes, I do understand the temptation to stray.  I have to ask, though: is your sweet little duckie named Will in honour of a certain someone?

But I find you so endearing, amusing, insightful, and not at all frightening.  How lucky am I to have gotten to know you?

Aw, you're much too kind.  Really.  And don't worry - Ralph's still Numero Uno.  The Big Cheese.  The Big Kahuna.  Da Bomb.  All of that.  I just went through a period of having dirty, DIRTY thoughts on a very regular basis for one young Will Shakespeare.  I think Ralph would understand.  It was those damned eyes of his.  I swear.  Well, and his mouth.  And broad, athletic shoulders.  And hair that seemed to be every color of hair available in nature all at once.  And that VOICE.  Need your butter melted, anyone?  I'm sorry... what were we talking about?

Actually, I did name my sweet little duckie after a movie character.  But that would be Marshall Will Kane in "High Noon."  And his given name is actually Will, not William, so technically it's not even the same name as Will Shakespeare.  Honest!  (Sort of) funny story - my husband honest to God wanted to name him Deke after Deke Slayton, the astronaut.  With all due respect to dogs everywhere, I said I absolutely refuse to give my child a dog's name.  He said, "Well, Deke had that name!"  I had to go to the handy internet and prove to him that that Deke's real name was Donald K. Slayton - DK or Deke for short.  Turns out about a month before he was born, Ed admitted to me that Will had been his favorite name since his childhood days of watching "Lost in Space" ("Danger!  Danger, Will Robinson!") and that he used to wish it were his name.  Rat bastard.  Jerking my poor little chain all that time.  I seriously thought I was gonna have to corner the Birth Certificate lady in the hospital and write his name on the form when he wasn't looking.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your very kind words.  And no, I'm the lucky one, my dear.

[kirkmusic]

What a great thread!  So much to say.

OT- I just noticed a google ad to the right for "The Ultimate Toilet Seat."  The website is CleanButt.com.  Just struck me funny.  Anyway...

I don't think the idea that many of us have been keeping to ourselves in our enthusiasm (to put it lightly) for this movie is valid when we've spent so many hours on these boards.  I think when you have an event in your life that shakes you to your core and you don't try to resist the experience, you gravitate to the people who should be there with you.  Hence, here we are.  I don't talk about BBM much to anyone else besides you guys because I know you all get it.  My parents, who are both very intelligent and feeling people, liked Brokeback.  It made my Mom sad that people weren't free to live how they wanted.  And that was it.  No gushing over wordless images, no comments on nuances of acting, no geeking out over the score.  They thought Good Night and Good Luck should have won the Oscar.  My #2, so I didn't mind.

It's absolutely fitting that all of us have found our way here to like-minded people.  Who here hasn't written some kind of lengthy post about their feelings on one thing or another?  Why would you do that with someone who has already told you they don't understand?

My birth dad died in Viet Nam when I was 4 months old.  I started life with abandonment issues.  The act I put up as a kid to hide the fact that I was sad was "the happy kid."  I didn't figure this out until well into my 20's.  Most of my life was spent keeping people at arms' length.  To this day I still have to choose, moment to moment, not to live with those old barriers that no longer serve me, and it's tough sometimes.  I don't have much of a social life because I never got the hang of "hanging out," having been a loner for so long.  It doesn't occur to me to make plans in advance so I can see friends with busy schedules.  Basically I'm lacking in social skills, although I've gotten much better in the past 5 years or so.

In my day to day life it's easy to fall into old patterns, spending a lot of time indoors alone, not making decisions about anything, knowing that I do have goals and not doing anything about them, feeling shy and insular.  But on vacation, the real Kirk comes out.  The guy that doesn't have 37 years of habits and analytical bllsht to contend with.  The guy that can easily start up a conversation with a friendly female London bartender.  The guy who can go to a gay dance club in St. Petersburg, Russia by himself and keep asking interesting people "Do you speak English" in Russian until he finds somebody who does.  The guy who'll hug a complete stranger in Flaggstaff, AZ who liked his karaoke performance of "Sara Smile."  That's who I really am, and I'm behaving as that person with more and more regularity.

BBM hit me so hard because Ennis was so emotionally suppressed.  Damn! do I relate to that.  And what do you know, so do a lot of people here.  I think secrets can be insidious if you don't tell anyone, but being selective about who you tell can be good judgement as long as it's not hindering who you are.

There was a quote I read some time ago, I forget who it was credited to, that went, "Never suppress a generous impulse."  I've adapted that to "Never suppress an affectionate impulse."  It's a very easy reminder to keep love at the forefront of my activities and my dealings with people.

As far as obsessions go, ours is of exceptionally high quality.  I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to bet that Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics don't get into these kinds of discussions.  Brokies are pretty great folks.  Both the dinner and movie I attended with 5 others of the brotherhood here in the Bay Area, and the phone conversation I had this morning with the NYC brunch crew were fantastic times.  And these are people I never would have met otherwise.  I don't come back to this board because I'm so into the movie anymore.  I just like to check back in with all of you.

We've taken the message of the film to heart.  We are opening ourselves to the love that is out there.  And as evidenced by this thread alone, it's all over the world.  Sometimes the love we need isn't in our own backyards, as Dorothy would have us believe.  But somehow we all found each other.  I don't consider the hours I've spent here to be hours I've spent alone at my computer.  They've been hours I've spent cultivating friendships in New York, LA, Indiana, Colorado, Germany, India, the UK, Illinios, Connecticut, Australia, etc.  You've proven to be thoughtful, compassionate, intelligent, funny, and for those of you I have met or spoken to, wonderful company.  As someone else said earlier in the thread, I've never been part of an online community.  Now I know why they exist and why they're so popular.  We are something to be cherished.

So when someone close to you doesn't get it, you can smile tolerantly and with sage wisdom, knowing that what they think is freaky is actually fulfilling in a way that one can't know until one experiences it.  It has been and will continue to be my unexpressable privilege to share the experience.

Much love to you all,
Kirk

[isabelle]

Our paths had not really crossed so far. But great post, so hi Kirk!

What a great thread!  So much to say.

They've been hours I've spent cultivating friendships in New York, LA, Indiana, Colorado, Germany, India, the UK, Illinios, Connecticut, Australia, etc.  You've proven to be thoughtful, compassionate, intelligent, funny, and for those of you I have met or spoken to, wonderful company. 

OK, so now you need to add FRANCE to the list!

[starboardlight]

Elle, I know what you mean about being in articulate when it come to talking about the movie, but when we all got together at La Cabaña, we all were plenty articulate. My impression of you and hpie are that you both were as intelligent and wellspoken as you have been on the board. I wonder maybe it's because we  all had a mararita or two to loosen us up.

[luigival]

The guy who'll hug a complete stranger in Flaggstaff, AZ who liked his karaoke performance of "Sara Smile."  That's who I really am, and I'm behaving as that person with more and more regularity.

BBM hit me so hard because Ennis was so emotionally suppressed.  Damn! do I relate to that.  And what do you know, so do a lot of people here.  I think secrets can be insidious if you don't tell anyone, but being selective about who you tell can be good judgement as long as it's not hindering who you are.

There was a quote I read some time ago, I forget who it was credited to, that went, "Never suppress a generous impulse."  I've adapted that to "Never suppress an affectionate impulse."  It's a very easy reminder to keep love at the forefront of my activities and my dealings with people.

As far as obsessions go, ours is of exceptionally high quality.  I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to bet that Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics don't get into these kinds of discussions.  Brokies are pretty great folks.  Both the dinner and movie I attended with 5 others of the brotherhood here in the Bay Area, and the phone conversation I had this morning with the NYC brunch crew were fantastic times.  And these are people I never would have met otherwise.  I don't come back to this board because I'm so into the movie anymore.  I just like to check back in with all of you.

Hi Kirk,
your comments were great, and I cannot agree with you more. Thanks for having having expressed many of my feelings as well,
Luigi

[delalluvia]

Great post kirk.  You go, boy!

As for:

As far as obsessions go, ours is of exceptionally high quality.  I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to bet that Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics don't get into these kinds of discussions.

Well, you'd lose that bet.  After all, Trekkers and Star Wars nuts are people too and not all of them are pubescent fanboy geeks.  The movies have made personal impacts in their lives as well.  Whoopi Goldberg made mention of the reason 'Star Trek' was always so special to her.  When she was a child, it was the first TV show she saw where she found a black woman in a futuristic society in a position of responsibility - "At least one of us made it" she was quoted as thinking.  Of personal stories, the one that sticks in my mind was a lovely woman whose moniker was Undomiel.  Several months into our enthusiastic discussion of 'The Attack of the Clones', she suddenly announced that DRL was going to interfere with her posting (DRL - Darth Real Life) as her cancer had returned.  We all, of course, sent messages of hope and positive thinking, prayers and confidences of her continued well-being...

She never came back.

To this day, I hope she simply moved on to different interests...

[Front-Ranger]

 I'm so envious of all of you who can share this wonderful movie and experience with your significant others. Hang on to them; they're treasures! My experience is depressing...at least my 18-year-old daughter is enlightened and took me to see the movie for the first time. But my husband refuses to see it or even talk about it. I thought I knew him after bearing two children and spending two decades together, but I don't. I've been telling myself that he's just going through a mid-life crisis, but this has been going on for over five years! If it weren't for the children and the time I can spend here feeling like I'm among friends, I'd be long gone, or going batty, one or the other!

[cmr107]

Thanks for bumping this thread, Kirk, I meant to post here a long time ago but didn't get around to it. Great post, by the way!

Like most other people here, no one I know 'gets it.' I have managed to have interesting discussions about symbolism and stuff with my mother, but she is one of the people who just thought it was a really good movie. Everyone else just sort of nods and smiles when I talk about it, so I stopped. Kirk, I think you're exactly right that we gravitate to people who share our experiences. The fact that we all seem to be like-minded people in many ways helps also.

At first, I felt weird about spending so much time talking to strangers online, because this is a new experience for me. Then I went more to the way of thinking of hey, how cool is it that I'm making friends from all over the world?

Yes, it's true that no one besides you guys know exactly how many times I saw it in the theatre (17!), but the reason for that is no longer the worry that people will think I'm crazy. I'm usually very open with sharing with friends and family strange things I do, I like telling stories. I'm much less open about my deeper feelings. BBM taps into deep feelings, so that makes it very personal and private to me. The experience of going to see it so many times, and of meeting people in person that I know from a message board would normally be something that I would tell people about. It's kind of nice to have a part of me that people don't know about.

I don't think this post made much sense, but there it is.

[starboardlight]

To this day I still have to choose, moment to moment, not to live with those old barriers that no longer serve me, and it's tough sometimes.  I don't have much of a social life because I never got the hang of "hanging out," having been a loner for so long.  It doesn't occur to me to make plans in advance so I can see friends with busy schedules.  Basically I'm lacking in social skills, although I've gotten much better in the past 5 years or so.

...

There was a quote I read some time ago, I forget who it was credited to, that went, "Never suppress a generous impulse."  I've adapted that to "Never suppress an affectionate impulse."  It's a very easy reminder to keep love at the forefront of my activities and my dealings with people.

such a beautiful post, Kirk. There were so many things that I needed to "hear", though I didn't know it before I read it. You and I are so similar. I completely get the whole choosing moment to moment to take down those barriers. You're right, they don't serve me any more. And your adapted quote "Never suppress an affectionate impulse." will now be my new mantra. Like you, I find that when I let down my guards, I'm a friendlier, more affectionate, more easy going person. And I find that I'm happier with me and with the world when I am that way.

[isabelle]

I'm so envious of all of you who can share this wonderful movie and experience with your significant others. Hang on to them; they're treasures! My experience is depressing... my husband refuses to see it or even talk about it.

Hey Front-Ranger -  Looks like we have LOADS in common. I'd say, if you're going to have the same experience as I had watching it with your hubby, then you're better off NOT seeing it with him. It can be even more depressing, and lead you to the bottle, albeit temporarily!
Hang in there, methinks you got plenty of friends here.

[silkncense]

  I think when you have an event in your life that shakes you to your core and you don't try to resist the experience, you gravitate to the people who should be there with you.  Hence, here we are.  I don't talk about BBM much to anyone else besides you guys because I know you all get it.

After my first viewing, I went to work so astounded that I HAD to tell everyone.  I guess it is no surprise that my enthusiasm was not similarly met.  I then contacted some of my best friends that live far afield.  Said they had to see this film.  Only one ever got back to me to say they had (two said they would); several would not even acknowledge my e-mail.  So, you are correct. Yet, I am still having difficulty processing the fact that my heartfelt endorsement of a life altering film was met with silence.

[Front-Ranger]

Thanks for the warning isabelle, you're probably right! I told my husband today that I don't care if he sees the movie or not, just that he needs to be less hateful. Now, I'm planning a summer getaway to get my head back in order. Last summer, I went with my daughter to Mesa Verde, a highly spiritual place near the junction of New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, and Utah. She will be travelling to Ireland this summer, so I'm on my own. I'm thinking about going to Calgary or Vermont to meet fellow Brokies. Those New Yorkers have inspired me!!

[serious crayons]

Beautiful, moving essay, Kirk. Thanks so much for writing it.

Ditto to what everybody else has said. Not only do none of my friends totally get it (a couple kind of do), but the very people I live with and theoretically am closest to -- my husband, for example -- have NO IDEA.

Also, regarding our community here, I'll have to say call this one of the weirdest social experiences I've ever had, but I love it. I'm blown away when I stop to think that every day, several times a day in fact, I am spending time with a group of people I feel genuine affection toward, even though I only have the sketchiest concepts of the superficial demographic things that you learn about people in "real life" the moment you look at them. I mean, I know where some of you live, but not all; I know what some of you look like (at least what can be determined from avatars), but not all; I know some of your ages, but not all, and so on. In a few cases I'm not even entirely clear on your genders! And yet disembodied or not I feel like I really know you well, at least in some ways, and I can say things to you guys that I wouldn't say to anyone else I know, including my spouse. How weird is that? But I also find it very, very interesting.

What would we have done if the movie had come out 10 years ago?

Oh, and one other thing I've wanted to say for a long time. You guys are SUCH good writers. I'm a writer by profession (I know a few others here are, too), and I know a lot of writers in "real-life," but I don't know anyone with whom I'd rather exchange thoughts in writing with than you guys. You are so articulate, thoughtful, and sensitive. I am constantly amazed at what I read here.

Katherine

[kirkmusic]

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the nice replies.

Great post kirk.  You go, boy!

As for:

As far as obsessions go, ours is of exceptionally high quality.  I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to bet that Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics don't get into these kinds of discussions.

Well, you'd lose that bet.  After all, Trekkers and Star Wars nuts are people too and not all of them are pubescent fanboy geeks.  The movies have made personal impacts in their lives as well.

You're absolutely right, dell.  I knew there was a reason I felt a little funny writing that sentence.  Plus, shortly after I read your post I remembered my own life-changing Star Trek experience back when I was 15.  Now I feel really silly for saying what I did.

BTW - The picture you posted of your cats is currently the wallpaper on my laptop.   

[delalluvia]

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the nice replies.

Great post kirk.  You go, boy!

As for:

As far as obsessions go, ours is of exceptionally high quality.  I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to bet that Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics don't get into these kinds of discussions.

Well, you'd lose that bet.  After all, Trekkers and Star Wars nuts are people too and not all of them are pubescent fanboy geeks.  The movies have made personal impacts in their lives as well.

You're absolutely right, dell.  I knew there was a reason I felt a little funny writing that sentence.  Plus, shortly after I read your post I remembered my own life-changing Star Trek experience back when I was 15.  Now I feel really silly for saying what I did.

People can find meaning in many things.

BTW - The picture you posted of your cats is currently the wallpaper on my laptop.   

   Wow, thanks.  My cats sure do get around (more than I do anyway).  The breeder I got Kabuki from also has a picture of her on her website.  They're just too cool 

[MaineWriter]

Thanks for the warning isabelle, you're probably right! I told my husband today that I don't care if he sees the movie or not, just that he needs to be less hateful. Now, I'm planning a summer getaway to get my head back in order. Last summer, I went with my daughter to Mesa Verde, a highly spiritual place near the junction of New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, and Utah. She will be travelling to Ireland this summer, so I'm on my own. I'm thinking about going to Calgary or Vermont to meet fellow Brokies. Those New Yorkers have inspired me!!

If you make it to Vermont, I hope you'll consider moseying on up to Maine--I'd love to get together!
Leslie

[YaadPyar]

Also, regarding our community here, I'll have to say call this one of the weirdest social experiences I've ever had, but I love it. I'm blown away when I stop to think that every day, several times a day in fact, I am spending time with a group of people I feel genuine affection toward, even though I only have the sketchiest concepts of the superficial demographic things that you learn about people in "real life" the moment you look at them. I mean, I know where some of you live, but not all; I know what some of you look like (at least what can be determined from avatars), but not all; I know some of your ages, but not all, and so on. In a few cases I'm not even entirely clear on your genders! And yet disembodied or not I feel like I really know you well, at least in some ways, and I can say things to you guys that I wouldn't say to anyone else I know, including my spouse.

Katherine

Y'know Katherine -

I think this is just exactly how relationships are at their best...where the true nature of the person shines through, and all the individual differences created by the details of our lives disappear.  For me, it's always best when the pure light of the sould shines without any shadows.  And I think BBM keeps inspiring all of us to leave behind whatever limitations exist for us, and this has become a great place to try out being our best.

[henrypie]

Kirk!
Thank you for that post.

Starbie: Speaking for myself, anyway, the reason I could be articulate about Brokeback Mountain at La Cabana was because I knew you guys already, and I knew you were all coming from where I was coming from.  The inarticulateness strikes in the presence of doubtful, blank faces of the uninitiated/unobsessed/unsympathetic.

[JennyC]

Another thread worthy reading or re-reading.  Hopefully no one objects that I bump the thread.

[Katie77]

It never ceases to amaze me, that all of us on these boards are experiencing the same things at one time or another.

After i saw the movie for the first time in march, i needed to talk about it, and because none of my friends had seen it, i too felt isolated...until i found a message board.

Then i wanted so badly for my family and friends to see it, because i thought they would feel exactly the way I did...Of course that wasnt what happened...my husband and sons "liked" it, and understood why it affected me so much, because of the parallels with my real life experience....some of my friends just thought it was another movie, only my sister in law felt a similar thing to me, so at least i had one person here i could talk to about it, share video clips, fan fiction, and stories on the message board.

I too, dont talk about it much now, with my friends, i think i have "bored" them enough, and I know they just dont understand.None of them would have any idea how much time i spend thinking about the movie, or time i spend on message boards or chatting to other "brokeback fever" sufferers.I do it, without fanfare or discussion with them, and sometimes a little guilt that i am neglecting things i need to do in my real life.

I guess i feel safe here with my internet friends, all non judgemental about me, or my obsession, all feeling exactly the same way as i do, experiencing the same things all the time.

Sometimes i say, I gotta get over it, get back to what my life was involved with, before i saw the movie, but I know i cant, or i dont want to...Would be like ignoring my best friend, like ignoring the feelings and emotions, like ignoring the things that have become so special in my life....My appetite for Brokeback is insatiable, and I need to feed it constantly, and damn, why should i make excuses for that...I know i am not alone, and i know that the people who share it with me are some of the nicest people i have ever met.....

[Ellemeno]

Elle, I know what you mean about being in articulate when it come to talking about the movie, but when we all got together at La Cabaña, we all were plenty articulate. My impression of you and hpie are that you both were as intelligent and wellspoken as you have been on the board. I wonder maybe it's because we  all had a mararita or two to loosen us up.

THis little gift has been sitting here for two months waiting patiently for me to discover it.  Like hpie said in her reply, my articulatitudery is squelched by disinterest, and ramped up by interest.  Thanks for the nice words, Starbie.
 

[Sheyne]

Hope nobody objects to this blatant bump.. wanna read this whole thing later... 

[kirkmusic]

Bump for one of my favorite threads ever.

[Front-Ranger]

I second that, Kirk.