Author Topic: Secrets and Lies...  (Read 17700 times)

Offline YaadPyar

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2006, 07:19:55 pm »

... my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.  I can write about it, but when I try to talk about it, my brain goes all soggy and I can't get the words to work.  It all sounds so inadequate.


I really do relate to this.  I can be articulate and thoughtful and insightful about so many things, but ask me how I feel, and words totally fail me.  I cannot speak of my emotions or they disappear into vapor.  I am not being coy, but truly they are incompatible with the crisp definitions that words create. 

I wonder if this is why we're so comfortable with the many silences of this film - because we need the space without the words to deeply feel what's in our own hearts.


Quote

I've read books and watched movies that are deeply important to them, and *whisper ithated them.  It's terrible when that happens.  You want so badly to love them, but you can't.  People are moved by different things, and at different times in their lives. 


True again.  I'm so glad mostly that people have stopped recommending anything to me.  I think I am a constant disappointment to anyone who expects me to like what they like.  I try, but it just almost never works.  I try to be less opinionated, but it seems to be hard-wired.

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Are secrets and lies always insidious?  I don't know, but I don't think so. 


It's so interesting to read this, and think more deeply about myself.  I try to have no lies, but I live in secret in so many ways without even being aware of it.  I don't think of myself as secretive, but I'm very private, in ways that most people never know about, because it's the nature of being private.  And I love that feeling, of having a special place in myself that belongs only to me, that no one else can touch. 

I love all the thoughtful responses - they're helping me think more deeply about all this. 
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2006, 07:38:30 pm »
Great idea for a thread yaad, I get the impression from reading that some of us have never had an obsessive pasttime before so the 'have to hide' situation is a new experience.

Not to trivialize BBM or how people's real lives have been affected (that's the right word, correct?) and reflected in anyway, but this is how the adult Star Wars/LOTR/Star Trek/Harry Potter etc., geeks feel all the time.

They're crazy fans and all their friends know it.  It's probably embarrassing to all but the most ardent fans that they write online stories, chat with one another, send little snippets of news, read all the latest books (yes, it's embarrassing for a grown woman to go purchase Star Wars Scholastic books because they're intended for pre-teen readers, yet they may have additional plot points, so you show up at Borders and pretend you're buying them for a niece or nephew (except for those rare times when the clerk selling them to you has a Darth Vader tattoo).

With your friends and family it's sometimes like Silent Bob and Jay, you have these great discussions on how the fall of the Star Wars Republic mirrors the fall of the ancient Roman republic or your family and friends hear a tidbit and just know you'd be interested and go out of their way to tell you.  The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits).  But most of the time you never mention it and unless someone ELSE brings it up.

Then you gush.

Offline YaadPyar

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2006, 08:02:02 pm »

The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits). 


Good point...the hidden lives of those standing in plain sight...  I have a friend at work who has a flip phone, and every time he open it, it makes the Star Trek tranponder sound. 

I think I'm going to watch the DVD tonight when I get back from running errands.  I haven't watched it all the way through even once, and think maybe I should, and see if I can understand some of this stuff more clearly.
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline monimm18

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2006, 09:41:04 pm »
Unbelievable! I gotta share this with you. Celeste, your thread made me ponder a lot. As I was considering (again) my friends' reactions to the film and to my love for it, I came to the conclusion that there's only one friend who probably would understand my obsession with BBM and would enjoy talking about this film. She lives in Minneapolis and she hates long phone conversations, so we usually catch  up on our friedship when we visit each other.
 
So, while I am having warm  thoughts about my open-minded friend, I notice she sent me an email. I open it, and it's a joke she sent to everyone of her friends. It said: "I am not a fan of sequels, but this looks like a good one!" There was an attachment. I open it, and this is what I see (see attachment).

I cannot begin to describe how dissapointed and duped I felt. There's another one for whom I lose respect...

So, now, all I have is y'all. The guy I date loved the film and comiserated with me until right after the Oscars, then he moved on. I learned to hide the fact that I still think about this film often, but you are right, Celeste, hiding it is causing some sort of damage, makes me feel a bit like there's a side of me that's not normal, because it's unacceptable.  

... The hell it is!  ;)


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Offline Chanterais

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2006, 09:48:28 pm »
The lady who sits next to me at work showed me pics of her daughter's Star Wars theme wedding (down to the costumes and skits). 

How great is that?  I love it when people are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  I'm a closet weirdo, skulking around in the corners of my bizarre little preoccupations, pretending like they're not really mine.  I adore benign oddness in other people.  I just wish I could own up to my own.  I should probably make it clear, however, that I'm not planning a Star Wars - themed wedding.  And if anyone does show up dressed as a Wookie, you're getting seated on the groom's side.  End of discussion.

I feel like when I do try to talk about it with people who are not-you-guys, I sound like "Me...like...Brokeback Mountain." 

And Elle once again wins the goldfish in a baggie for pithiest deconstruction.  Spot on.  What are you going to call your new friend? 

And I love that feeling, of having a special place in myself that belongs only to me, that no one else can touch. 

*Adriana nods sagely*  I'm always a little nervous around people who spill their guts right away.  Not many people have access to my tender little secrets, and even then there are some things, like tiny white grubs, that never have the brick lifted off them.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2006, 10:15:32 pm »

I love it when people are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  I'm a closet weirdo, skulking around in the corners of my bizarre little preoccupations, pretending like they're not really mine.  I adore benign oddness in other people.

Phew!  Am I glad to hear that.  Because I *am* one of those people who are cheerfully unashamed of their eccentricities.  When I went through my Overwhelming-Infatuation-With-Joseph-Fiennes-And-All-Things-Shakespeare-In-Love phase eight years ago (has it been that long?), I had photos of him (only as Will Shakespeare, mind you) and Gwyneth Paltrow and Judi Dench, but OK, mostly of Joseph Fiennes as Will Shakespeare plastered all over my cube.  It was like a shrine.  People stopped by just because they'd heard about it and wanted to check it out.  I'm obsessive but I'm no fool - I know they had a good little laugh at my expense every so often.  But they still came to ask me for my movie recommendations, or to help them remember this actor's or that director's name whenever they couldn't - "Oh, ask Barb.  She'll know."  And they said that with only a smidgeon of mocking in their tone.

The other day, I was talking with a longtime co-worker about movies (what else?), and she was saying how she'd just rented "The Merchant of Venice" - the version with Al Pacino "and that guy you used to be ga ga over - what was his name, again?"

I like to hope they all find my little obsessions amusing, endearing, and only slightly frightening.


*Adriana nods sagely*  I'm always a little nervous around people who spill their guts right away.  Not many people have access to my tender little secrets, and even then there are some things, like tiny white grubs, that never have the brick lifted off them.

I hear you, here.  As nutty as I am, I do try to keep it under locks for at least the first few minutes.  I took Will to the park yesterday morning, and got chatting with a lovely young father who was there with his two adorable little tykes, one of whom had a pacifier in her mouth (but she couldn't have been more than two).  I didn't say a word about it - Will had a pacifier in his day, too - but he must get it a lot, so he goes, out of the clear blue sky "Yeah.  She's still got that pacifier.  But I figure it's better than letting her suck her thumb.  I sucked my thumb until I was 12.  Used to put aloe on it just to make it taste bad so I wouldn't.  But then I'd just lick it off and suck it some more."  I'm like, WHOA.  TMI Alert, guy!!!  Good grief!  What *don't* you tell complete strangers?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 10:17:33 pm by ednbarby »
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Offline YaadPyar

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2006, 10:41:15 pm »
I remember thinking about Russell Crowe non-stop after A Beautiful Mind.  He is just so incredibly talented, and for my money one of the best actors alive.  I was so blown away by his willingness to open himself completely to a character - to fully inhabit the life of another, and put everything he had into it.  Folks complain about Russell Crowe, and granted, he's got some emotional control issues, but he puts it out there for everyone to see and feel.

Heath and Jake did that in BBM, and I think the character of Jack did that.  And it just breaks my heart that Ennis could never fully move past his own hesitation. 

This isn't about me finding true love - I have that as I want/need in my life.  But it's about expressing something that hidden for so long, which is what's in my heart.  I NEVER have a moment of trouble saying what's on my mind, but can hardly ever share what's in my heart.

So even though I can't talk about the movie with everyone, I've stopped fencing everything in.  I can be friendly enough, but I've been too careful about not letting life or even people touch me.  I don't want to keep that same distance anymore, and don't really need to.  I feel like now I've got something to bring to the party, and I'm gonna give it a bit of a try.

These changes are so subtle.  I don't know that anyone else can see them at all, but I feel them.  And I feel lighter and freer and more relaxed.  Not having an outlet for myself made me so critical of others - them being what I couldn't - but now I haven't the will to impose such violence on myself...to force mysefl into such a small corner of my heart and try to live that way.

I am so appreciative of being able to have a place to learn all these things about myself, to share a bit of this journey and not feel so alone in it.  I am so grateful not to be Ennis or to be my father, looking back in regret at what might have been.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 11:59:19 am by yaadpyar »
"Vice, Virtue. It's best not to be too moral. You cheat yourself out of too much life. Aim above morality. If you apply that to life, then you're bound to live life fully." (Harold & Maude - 1971)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2006, 11:17:02 pm »
What a beautiful post, Celeste.  I must add something about Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind.  Honestly, overall I didn't care for the movie - I thought they kind of trivialized schizophrenia in a way.  And it bothers me that they wrote a lie into it - that the man it's based on actually cured himself of it with his wife's love.  That's not true, and it's not possible.  But Russell Crowe, in spite of that, blew me away.  And he did it in just one scene.  It was a scene where he was looking at himself in the mirror.  And he was terrified because he didn't recognize who he saw looking back.  And he *nailed* it.  I know from that experience, because I've had it myself.  Three days after Will was born, post-partum depression rolled over me like a Mack truck.  I didn't see it coming.  In that hormonal/chemical onslaught, all traces of me were lost.  I still remember looking in my bathroom mirror and seeing someone I didn't recognize looking back at me.  Do you ever have dreams in which you see yourself in a mirror, but it's a completely different person looking back at you?  All my life I had those dreams.  But this happened in my waking life.  Odd thing - A Beautiful Mind was the first movie I went to see in the theater after Will was born.  He was about 8 weeks old.  My husband was home and he said, "Why don't you go get out of the house for a while.  Go to the beach or see a movie - I've got things covered here."  My tradition for years and years was to make a point to see all five Academy Awards nominees (not anymore, but that's another post).  I knew I probably didn't have a chance of doing that that year, but I figured I'd pick whichever one was showing and go with that.

Like I say, a lot of the rest of the movie bothered me.  But I still can't shake the exact way his face and eyes looked when he was looking in the mirror at himself in that scene.  Other actors have done the same kind of scene, I'm sure many times over.  But none has left the same impression on me.  Had I not been experiencing it myself at the time, I probably wouldn't have fully appreciated it.  But I've seen actors try their hand at it since, and none have come close to how perfectly he just got it.

Hell, I remember even saying to Ed around that time, "Do I look different to you?"  He said, "In what way?"  I said, "My face - does my face look like it's changed somehow?"  He just looked at me in an odd way and said, "Well if you mean has having a baby changed your face like it does some women's (we had talked about that in the early months of the pregnancy - that I was afraid it would somehow alter my face in that way it sometimes does), no - it's just the same as it's always been."  Yet I saw a completely different person.  I saw the person in my subconscious - in my dreams.  It was the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced.

What's equally incredible about Heath's and Jake's performances, I think, is that they're so damned good, they can take those of us who've never experienced exactly what those characters have experienced and make us believe it is absolutely real.  My husband said it today talking about it - "It was like watching a really good documentary."  And this is a guy who loves documentaries.  In other words, he felt like those characters were real.  I'm guessing you haven't experienced clinical depression, Celeste.  And yet Russell Crowe could make you feel mental illness in your bones as if it were your own, am I right?  THAT'S acting.  All of these men are legendary in their craft.  And thank goodness they're so young and just beginning.  It's like watching Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate at the time it first came out.  His whole career is yet to unfold.  Like these men's now.  I can't wait to watch that happen.
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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2006, 01:10:37 am »
Hi everyone, so Aussie Chris finally dips his toe into the Chez Tremblay pool (thanks for the invite Celeste).

I am only now coming to terms with the emotional effects of BBM, or they are only now being felt on a level far deeper than I even knew existed, some three months after first seeing it.  I got all upset and devastated like everyone else over the whole "what have I been doing with my life" thing, but somehow I managed to distance myself by intellectualising my emotions.  For better or for worse, I now seem unable to continue with that little charade.

I really struggle to put these feelings into words, so any attempt to discuss them with non-Brokaholics seems a waste of everyone’s time.  Actually, I don't know if I even want to share this with anyone who's not a Brokie, but then again I don't have people that I confide on this level with anyway, so I guess I can afford to be a little dismissive of the concern.  Is that selfish?  Well anyway, the weight that now sits on my heart tells me that I don't need to add any more challenges to my coping skills, and the "concerned" and in some cases "terrified" faces of friends and family if I try to talk to them are definitely not helpful.

One thing that's occurred to me is that I don't think I could have come as far as I have without being able to talk to all you folks, and the "remoteness" has actually worked in my favour because I could always turn the computer off - not that I did of course, just stuck to the quieter forums.  So be gentle with me as I pick out a comfy chair in the Chez Tremblay forum and start to work on some of these issues.
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Offline Sheyne

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Re: Secrets and Lies...
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2006, 02:02:51 am »
Quote
I told him that in some ways, my relationship to the movie is so private that I find it difficult to discuss it.

This is the EXACT way I feel about the film.  I gave up discussing it a while back simply because I couldn't get my head around the indiferrence that my friends displayed.  My sister told me that the credits woke her up.  A work mate asked how many of the sheep were real. A cousin said "Meh, maybe I just haven't felt hurt badly enough to relate to it." Even my best mate, a gay man who I see very much as an Ennis, rolled his eyes when I pressed for discussion about the movie, signing "uhoh, here comes another addiction!"  So I keep it to myself, and in doing so I find I'm keeping to myself.

You don't have to keep to yourself with me, Ray. You know that.  *hugs*

But I agree with you.  My family just roll my eyes and sneer and do the "oh, so this is the latest obsession" *sigh*. So I just hide it as much as I can, letting it run free when I'm here or when Ray and I get together and we can talk till we're blue in the face if we want to.

I have hidden this from everybody around me.  I mean, i was jaw-on-the-floor stunned when I put on my sexy Malaysian bootleg copy last night and watched it while having dinner and my sister walked through, groaned audibly and gave some snide remark like "not this crap again" (she saw it with me at the movies and liked it enough to call it "stunning", "incredible" etc, but she's one of these people who just see movies once and forget them). Anyway, walked through the lounge, made the comment and then she stopped at the stairs. I said nothing to her remark, nor did I look at her, but peripherally I could see her.  And she turned around and walked back and sat down on the lounge and did her crossword, half working, half watching the movie.  She knows how much I've seen it.  When we got to Jack's rodeo dance for Ennis, she burst out laughing and said "forgot how funny that was". When we got to the first tent scene, she says "is it true that he puts Ennis's hand on his dick?" I replied very casually "Yep".  When Ennis rides away without a word, she asked "why didn't he say anything?" I explained that to the best of my ability, feeling a little buzz of excitement at her interest. When we saw the shot of Ennis's hat approaching that gap in the tent, she said "did he take his hat off to cover his hard-on or cause he wanted to be a gentleman?"  I replied, probably a little of both, but what do you think?

And the whole way through the movie, she made little observations. As the credits rolled, she stood up and walked away without a word.

But I found my bootleg in her room this morning.

There's hope yet, guys.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 07:56:51 am by hungry_hungryhippos »
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