Author Topic: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain  (Read 110512 times)

Offline Sason

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #130 on: April 22, 2011, 03:13:44 pm »

We never did adequately answer Rich's question about the meaning of pitching a pup tent on the QT.  :'( What does QT mean anyway? I always thought it meant quiet time, but that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Your thoughts?


According to my online dictionary (tyda.se) 'on the QT' means 'secretly, in secret'.

I thought it was because I'm not a native speaker I didn't understand it.
Isn't it a standard phrase?

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #131 on: April 22, 2011, 03:28:46 pm »
Well, that does seem to definitively answer the question!!

No, it's not a standard phrase in the U.S. It's old fashioned and militaristic. But that's how Aguirre was so it seems perfect for him. Plus, like many of the phrases Annie used, it is slightly ambiguous and seems a wee bit racy. She might have used it because it could be translated as "Queer Time" instead.

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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #132 on: April 22, 2011, 03:31:20 pm »
Your thoughts?


When I first read it in the SS, I assumed it's one of those "Western phrases" (Western as in The West, not as in the movie genre).
I didn't find any evidence for that though. And in response to the phrases.org.ok article, I rather think it's not a Western phrase. Maybe quite the contrary, maybe it's one of those "strange/unusual/Prouxian phrases, like the above mentioned (by you) slopped.

My thoughts? As a foreign speaker, to me "qt" meaning simply "quiet" makes complete sense.

I had never heard or read "on the qt" before I read the short story for the first time, and it caught my eye and I looked the expression up.

Lee's reply came in while I was typing.

Offline Marina

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #133 on: April 22, 2011, 03:40:17 pm »
Yay, a Brokeback discussion!  I will never tire of the beauty of this film.

Yes, i have heard the phrase "on the QT" (somewhat) frequently, (or at least before!) meaning secretively, maybe in reference to breaking the rules of some kind.   Just more references to society and the unfortunate having to hide their relationship.  :(
“Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of his world.”
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Offline Jeff Benson

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #134 on: April 30, 2011, 05:09:24 am »


When analyzing a story, I always consider the first impressions of the
reader: what he or she see perceives as the message of the author. Only
later when you pour over the text again and again do other symbols and
imagery reveal themselves. Some of these may have been intended by the
author. Some may have in fact worked on the subconscious mind of the
reader, when the story was first read. For some  these deep layers may
have been instantly recognized on first reading. That is not how I operate.
My operating principle is that the symbolism and imagery has to have a
plausible connection to the theme and messages that the author is trying
to convey. 8)
Hello everyone

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #135 on: May 06, 2011, 09:27:18 pm »
Good thoughts, Jeff. I'd like to hear more!
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Offline brokeback-fan

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #136 on: May 09, 2011, 08:57:35 pm »
Meaning

On the quiet.

Origin

The slang term 'qt' is a shortened form of 'quiet'. There's no definitive source for the phrase 'on the q.t.', although it appears to be of 19th century British origin - not, as is often supposed, American. The longer phrase 'on the quiet' is also not especially old, but is first recorded somewhat before 'on the qt', in Otago: Goldfields & Resources, 1862:

"Unless men can work [the gold] on 'the quiet', they are not likely to make 'piles' so rapidly as Messrs. Hartley and Riley."

That first record is from new Zealand, but is soon followed by citations from the United Kingdom and the USA.

As to on the q.t., in The Facts on File Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, Robert Hendrickson states:

"A British broadside ballad (1870) contained the line 'Whatever I tell you is on the Q.T.'"

It would be good to know the name of the ballad in order to follow up this assertion. Unfortunately, the author doesn't give it, from which we can only suppose he didn't know it himself. Without some supporting evidence that claim has to be in doubt.

Hendrickson also goes on to say:

"On the Q.T.' gained more popularity when it appeared in an 1891 minstrel show number called 'Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay.' London 'went stark mad over the refrain,' which was written by Henry J. Sayers and sung by Lottie Collins. The first stanza follows:

A sweet Tuxedo girl you see,
Queen of swell society,
Fond of fun as fun can be
When it's on the strict Q.T.

I'm not too young, I'm not too old,
Not too timid, not too bold,
Just the kind of sport I'm told

Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay."

This assertion appears to be incorrect. The first stanza of that song is this:

A smart and stylish girl you see,
Belle of good society;
Not too strict, but rather free,
Yet as right as right can be!

never forward, never bold,
Not too hot and not too cold,
But the very thing I'm told,
That in your arms you'd like to hold!

Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay

The 'on the strict Q.T' line doesn't appear in the original 1891 version of the song. I'm not sure where Henrickson's version was obtained from and when it was written. The Lizzie Borden Society's web site (http://lizzieandrewborden.com) has this to say about it:

"Over the years, the easily sung and remembered tune has been claimed by many other composers and lyricists who have added their own version of the words."

All early citations of the phrase have it as 'on the strict q.t.'. The first recorded use of any version of the phrase in print that I can find documentary evidence for is by the Irish novelist George Moore, in A mummer's wife 1884:

" It will be possible to have one spree on the strict q.t."

The first use of 'on the q.t.' that isn't strict, so to speak, is from the Indiana newspaper The Sunday Gazette, January 1898, in an advert for a stage show by Fanny Rice.

The phrase has retained its place in the language and is still used, although these days it has the whiff of US pulp fiction gangster novels and films.

H. L. Mencken, in The American Language, 1921, comments on the American fondness for abbreviations. like OK, PDQ, COD, as well QT. He suggests they helped non-English speaking immigrants to communicate.

In the 1997 film L.A. Confidential (screenplay Brian Helgeland, based on a novel by James Ellroy), Sid Hudgens (played by Danny DeVito) signs off his newspaper columns with "off the record, on the QT and very hush-hush.". This was taken up as the film's tagline in advertising posters.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #137 on: May 09, 2011, 09:44:06 pm »
Thank you very much, fan. That appears to be the definitive word on the subject! I remember the song Ta-Ra-Ra-Boom-De-Ay appearing in the movie My Brilliant Career, a wonderful film set in Australia.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #138 on: July 03, 2011, 12:06:23 am »
For our next book discussion, here's a novel (he,he) idea. Let's discuss Brokeback Mountain! This was first published in October, 1997, in The New Yorker Magazine, as a story. The author is Annie Proulx.

It begins with a prologue which, for some reason, was left off of the story as published in The New Yorker. Annie Proulx said that it was left off by mistake. The first two sentences:

Ennis del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

Bumping for Amanda and any of you who, like me, are having a Brokie fever relapse these days!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2011, 05:15:37 pm »
Maybe this is a place to share a question that popped into my head this weekend as I thought of my friends who next weekend will be seeing to the final disposition of all that remains of our dear Rodney:

What on earth were the Twists waiting for?

About the ashes, I mean.

I mean, it's more or less essential to the story that at the time of Ennis's visit, Jack's ashes have not yet been put to permanent rest. Yet presumably he's been dead for a while, and the Twists have had the ashes for a while, but they haven't yet put them in the family plot.

So what, I wonder, were they waiting for?  ???

Maybe it had something to do with John Twist's cussedness? Or maybe, considering the unexpectedness of Jack's death, they just weren't ready to "let go" and bury the ashes?

I dunno. Just spinning off thoughts here. ...  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.