Author Topic: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain  (Read 111014 times)

Offline Vermont Sunset

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2007, 09:09:04 am »
Spoons dirty and otherwise. I’ve been giving a lot of thought to these references and in particular considering what others see. My emphasis is different than some, but I do perceive a convergence of imagery which I feel is lacking in other cases.

When analyzing a story, I always consider the first impressions of the reader: what he or she see perceives as the message of the author. Only later when you pour over the text again and again do other symbols and imagery reveal themselves. Some of these may have been intended by the author. Some may have in fact worked on the subconscious mind of the reader, when the story was first read. For some  these deep layers may have been instantly recognized on first reading. That is not how I operate. My operating principle is that the symbolism and imagery has to have a plausible connection to the theme and messages that the author is trying to convey.

There are two references to spoons . Both are recollections, and both  are connected in Ennis’s mind. The first reference occurs as Ennis is waiting for Jack to arrive for their Reunion. Here is the entire quote.


Quote
“Alma was saying something about taking his friend out to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby -sitter, but Ennis said more likely he’d just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of cans of cold beans balanced on the log.”

It is difficult to remember with accuracy what your first impressions were after you’ve read something several dozen times, but I’m fairly sure about mine initial impressions. My thoughts were of AP’s description of our boys: “rough-mannered.”  It was almost as if Ennis did not think Jack even knew how to act in a restaurant. Also the impression I had was that his memory of their time together was that of two teenaged boys not having to worry about manners, and just being kind of gross, but having the time of their lives. And getting drunk was the precursor to his first torrid sexual experience with Jack. I think Ennis was looking to satisfy that hunger, not have a nice meal.

Now looking for deeper layers here are my thoughts.  I have a dear friend, who is true feminist. She said that women civilized men, and made culture possible. You see hints of that here. Alma wants to get a baby sitter, a responsible thing to do, but it also reminds the reader that Ennis is a married man and father with responsibilities, not a kid anymore. The name of the restaurant is an interesting choice.“The Knife & Fork.” Those are the implements of civilized eating. Think of little boys, napkins neatly tucked under their chins being taught for the first time how to use a knife and fork. Then think of Ennis and Jack gnawing at the venison they held in their hands. And what is the first implement a child uses, the first one they can be trusted with? It is a spoon. So here yet again, AP alludes to their childhoods. Both Ennis and Jack had traumas in their youth which had contributed mightily to the stunting of their emotional growth. And in the DE we see each of them satisfying that “shared and sexless hunger.” In both of these men, there was a lack of emotional support so necessary for a young person to fully mature. So for Ennis, being with his lover, was also being with his bud, a bud that cared for and offered him emotional support. The two understood each other. They could be unworried about the constraints of civilized living and the need to use a knife and fork. He was not interested in seeing Jack eat with a knife and fork.  He may have been scalded by passion when he was with Jack, but he also felt as safe as he had ever felt in his life when they were alone together.

The next reference to spoons is in the concluding scene, as Jack is now appearing in his dreams.


Quote
“.... but the can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out and balanced on the log was there as well, in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of comic obscenity. The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron.”

There is so much here, but on first reading, in a very fragile emotional state, I just saw his wonderful memories of Jack morphing into a hideous nightmare.

Analyzing in depth, the vocabulary chosen is so intriguing. “Cartoon shapes” “lurid colors”  The combination “comic obscenity” grabs you.

Cartoon shapes in all likelihood means “elongated” or exaggerated. This would play right into the morphing into a tire iron.

Here are the definitions of “lurid”. I think in this context the third definition seems most appropriate.


1. Causing shock or horror; gruesome.
1. 2. Marked by sensationalism: a lurid account of the crime. See Synonyms at ghastly.
3. Glowing or shining with the glare of fire through a haze: lurid flames.
4. Sallow or pallid in color.

And of the four definitions of obscenity I think the fourth one, especially given the example used, is exactly what AP intended.

1. The state or quality of being obscene.
2. Indecency, lewdness, or offensiveness in behavior, expression, or appearance.
3. Something, such as a word, act, or expression, that is indecent or lewd.
4. Something that is offensive or repulsive to the senses: "What had once been a gentle hill covered with lush grass turned into a brown obscenity of bare earth and smoke" Tom Clancy.

I have heard that large spoon handles used in stirring pots of stew are often used as tire irons in Great Britain. That would fit perfectly here as the bean spoon grows grotesquely into a form not suitable for eating beans from a can, but for removing a tire rim, or crushing a skull.

Although I do not feel phallic references work for me with the spoon images, I do see that they could easily work for others and are not inconsistent with the messages that I see. In the first recollection the “dirty spoons” could be a reference to phalli and perhaps Ennis’s feeling at that point that what they were doing was wrong, hence the word “dirty.”  And certainly in the last passage the elongation of that spoon, could be viewed as an erecting penis, that leads to death by tire iron. But the absence of the word “dirty” I think would mean that Ennis is no longer conflicted about how he views the sex that Jack and he experienced. As I said, it’s not what I see, but I think it is consistent with the themes and messages of the story.


I gotta go......See ya in the mornin'

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2007, 10:39:25 am »
We'll see what Jeff Wrangler thinks of your statement! He prefers the thighmaster theory while you and I are in the buns of steel camp!!

Somebody mention my name?  ;D

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. No offense, but after 16 months, even I'm tired of rehearsing and repeating my own understandings.

I do agree with Lee, however, that "Gun's goin' off" is an amusing, colloquial equivalent of the more prosaic "I'm cummin'!"  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2007, 05:21:52 pm »
hehe, Jeff. Vermont Sunset, that was a very eloquent post. I'll never look at a spoon again the same way. It makes me think of this picture:



There's the BetterMost bean can in between 'em and it DOES have a certain je ne sais quois of comic obscenity!!

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2007, 07:20:02 pm »
hehe, Jeff. Vermont Sunset, that was a very eloquent post. I'll never look at a spoon again the same way. It makes me think of this picture:



There's the BetterMost bean can in between 'em and it DOES have a certain je ne sais quois of comic obscenity!!



I have this photo in my collection of 8x10s. I just wish it didn't include the horse's you-know-what!  >:( :-\  ;D  :laugh:

I ought to ask the movie-symbolism people to discuss the symbolism of the ax handle apparently protruding from Jack's head, and the horse's posterior right, er, behind Jack. ...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:22:35 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Vermont Sunset

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2007, 08:50:45 am »
hehe, Jeff. Vermont Sunset, that was a very eloquent post. I'll never look at a spoon again the same way. It makes me think of this picture:



There's the BetterMost bean can in between 'em and it DOES have a certain je ne sais quois of comic obscenity!!



Thanks FR. Wow, never saw that still before with the "jutting" spoon handle!  Ain't nothin' obscene about our two guys or anything they chose to do as far as I'm concerned. Comical at times, yes, but never obscene.  ;)
I gotta go......See ya in the mornin'

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2007, 03:28:23 pm »
Hmmm...I looked up obscenity and the first couple of definitions are clearly not applicable...repulsive, disgusting to the senses. But the third definition is designed to incite to lust. Maybe this is what Annie had in mind!!

And I have to admit that the placement of the can and the spoon sticking out of it, superimposed with Ennis behind, does incite one to lust!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

moremojo

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Re: Book Discussion: Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2007, 04:05:03 pm »
My office copy of Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary (1991) gives the following for 'obscene':

1 : disgusting to the senses : REPULSIVE 2 : abhorrent to morality or virtue; specif : designed to incite to lust or depravity

It seems to me that the 'obscenity' that Proulx cites could be another window into Ennis's mind, in that it may suggest something of his feeling for Jack and/or their time on Brokeback, either as it was actually lived, or as he remembers these (specifically via his dreams). There could be lust here, but also perhaps a feeling of disgust or shame in himself, in Jack, or the two of them together. The lust and the shame could be mixed up all together (it is possible to feel ashamed about one's romantic/erotic feelings), and this might reflect Ennis's deep-seated internalized homophobia.

The 'cartoon shape', 'lurid colors', and 'comic obscenity' all lend a nightmare aura to the Jack-filled dreams that haunt Ennis in the end.


Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why is it called Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2007, 11:48:14 pm »
Why is the story called Brokeback Mountain when the real mountain is named Brokenback Mountain? There have been several theories about the title of the story. Here's one that I hope is new. The real Brokenback Mountain in north-central Wyoming has a name that is melodious and rhythmic, while the name Brokeback Mountain is plainer and harsher, more suited to Annie Proulx's writing style. But the main reason I think she changed the name is because Brokeback, like Mountain, has two syllables, not three, and almost everything in this story comes in twos, starting with Jack and Ennis.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Why is it called Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2007, 07:33:27 am »
Why is the story called Brokeback Mountain when the real mountain is named Brokenback Mountain? There have been several theories about the title of the story. Here's one that I hope is new. The real Brokenback Mountain in north-central Wyoming has a name that is melodious and rhythmic, while the name Brokeback Mountain is plainer and harsher, more suited to Annie Proulx's writing style. But the main reason I think she changed the name is because Brokeback, like Mountain, has two syllables, not three, and almost everything in this story comes in twos, starting with Jack and Ennis.
Makes sense to me! The book was much more harsh than the movie. More intense and.....I don't know, rough maybe. I don't know if thats the right word.
In the book, when Jack comes to visit after 4yrs, I reads like Ennis knows Alma saw them. Am I mis-reading that or is that correct?
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Why is it called Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2007, 09:03:31 am »
In the book, when Jack comes to visit after 4yrs, I reads like Ennis knows Alma saw them. Am I mis-reading that or is that correct?


My understanding is also that in the story Ennis knows Alma saw them. Isn't there a line in there somewhere with Ennis telling Alma that he and Jack hadn't seen each other in four years, "as if it were an explanation" (or some such words)--which I've taken to mean a cock-and-bull explanation for why he was kissing Jack.

Maybe Annie deleted that "n" from "Brokenback" as part of a general kind of playing with Wyoming geography that she seems to have done--to avoid pinning the story too closely to an actual, identifiable mountain?

I'm reminded of how, in the story, Ennis tells Jack about his gut cramps and mentions that at first he thought they came from something he'd eaten at "that place in Dubois." I've interpreted that to mean they stopped off for something to eat somewhere in Dubois on the way back to Signal after they came down off Brokeback. But the real Dubois, Wyoming, is northwest of Riverton, practically across the state from the Big Horns and Ten Sleep. It would make no sense for them to have gone from Brokeback-Brokenback, in the Big Horns, to Ten Sleep-Signal, by way of Dubois. You'd probably have to go through Ten Sleep to get from Brokenback to Dubois.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.