Didn't any boy cry? This girl certainly did...

[isabelle]

I just saw "Boys don't cry" for the first time on DVD last night, and am still trying to recover from the shock/pain/immense sorrow. I had heard of the film, as a good film to watch, which dealt with homosexuality, but I didn't read anything (not even the synopsis on the jacket really) before I watched. Even though I thought it was fiction, I was 'living' the bloody thing as I was watching. But oh, when I read at the end what happened to the main characters in real life and realised it was a true story, my blood curled. I froze and felt SO much for Brandon/Teena 

Which brings me to this reflection: as a typical European, I oppose capital punishment. I know, it is easy for me, not having come remotely close in real life to anyone who has ever been seriously mugged. But when I read on the screen that one of the culprits had been sentenced to death and was trying to have his sentence commuted, my gut reaction that second was "you can bloody well die, you bastard!". Then 2 seconds later I came round and thought "and what good will it do Brandon/Teena?"
This was like a test for me: I felt so much for this girl/boy, and hated the rapists'/murderers' guts so much, I still quickly found it in myself, in my reasoning, to oppose that bastard's death sentence.

But boy, Texas, what a place, hunh??! And that happened in 1993. Makes me all the more certain that Jack was murdered.

[Front-Ranger]

To put that barbarian to death would be too good for him, I feel. He should be made to live with himself and the memory of what he did for a long, long time, meanwhile being daily brutalized by his fellow prisoners, given some of his own medicine.

[Jeff Wrangler]

To put that barbarian to death would be too good for him, I feel. He should be made to live with himself and the memory of what he did for a long, long time, meanwhile being daily brutalized by his fellow prisoners, given some of his own medicine.

That might be too good for him, Lee, but your suggestion raises a whole other set of questions, don't you think? Which speaks worse of our government--of us: To take away, at one stroke, the life of someone who showed such a heinous and callous disregard for the life of another, or to condone ongoing institutionalized brutality (um, sorta like Abu Ghraib)?

[isabelle]

I want to apologize to all Texans here, don't take it personally, but it is known over here for... not being a very liberal place.

Yes, Lee, I wouldn't mind knowing the same would be done to him, but it is like the death sentence: it is sheer vengeance. No use at all. Best to put relentless efforts into educating the young to eradicate machism and homophobia, I think.

A little voice in my head keeps saying "but some of them are unredeemably evil"... Suffice it to keep them locked up for life to avoid any further danger to anyone else, let's say (which still costs less money to the community than carrying out a death sentence).

Does anyone know if that "man" had his sentence commuted?
And PLEASE could anyone give me the reference of the song in that film that says "the bluest eyes in Texas"? I love it...

[opinionista]

That might be too good for him, Lee, but your suggestion raises a whole other set of questions, don't you think? Which speaks worse of our government--of us: To take away, at one stroke, the life of someone who showed such a heinous and callous disregard for the life of another, or to condone ongoing institutionalized brutality (um, sorta like Abu Ghraib)?

I agree with Jeff here.  Killing people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong, is not the answer. It doesn't even make sense. Of course, I don't know if I'm going to feel different about it if I or somebody I love is raped, or killed, but right now I don't see the logic in it.  Capital punishment exist since forever and to this date it hasn't stopped people from killing people.

[serious crayons]

Killing people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong, is not the answer.

I agree. Violence breeds violence. States here that have the death penalty also have some of the highest murder rates. I don't think the cause and effect go one way or another, just that they are violent societies in which killing is seen as a legitimate way to settle a conflict. If the government endorses that view, obviously regular murderers will do the same. The government thinks it has a good reason to kill and murderers don't; murderers think the same thing in reverse. They're both wrong -- there's never a good reason to kill.

Isabelle, I think your initial "die, you bastard!" response is a perfectly human reaction to a brutal crime. The difference is, immediately thereafter your rational side took over. The first thought comes from the ancient, reptilian part of our brain, the second from the more evolved, human part of our brain  -- though apparently it hasn't fully evolved in all humans! 

I'm always filled with amazement and admiration when I hear stories of murder victims' families petitioning courts not to impose the death penalty on the killer.

[Front-Ranger]

That might be too good for him, Lee, but your suggestion raises a whole other set of questions, don't you think? Which speaks worse of our government--of us: To take away, at one stroke, the life of someone who showed such a heinous and callous disregard for the life of another, or to condone ongoing institutionalized brutality (um, sorta like Abu Ghraib)?

I was referring to the trreatment he would get by his peers, not by prison guards like in Abu Ghraib. It's pure animal nature, it doesn't matter if I condone it or not. Might as well ask fruit to stay green, as the Virginian said.

[Lumière]

Hey Isabelle...

I own that DVD as well.
It left me feeling heavy when I watched it .. knowing all the while that someone lived it and ended that way.
I haven't seen it in a while, but I'll watch it again one of these nights.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I was referring to the trreatment he would get by his peers, not by prison guards like in Abu Ghraib. It's pure animal nature, it doesn't matter if I condone it or not.

I understood that. I guess my own use of "institutionalized" confused matters. I meant to imply brutality sanctioned by the institution--whether by the prison guards at Abu Ghraib or some theoretical permitting of other inmates to repeatedly brutalize Brandon Teena's murderer.

Actually, I have to admit that I have an intellectually inconsistent--you might even say wishy-washy--view of the death penalty. I am not unequivocally opposed to it. As for my own hypothetical comparison, I think it speaks worse of a society if it allows ongoing brutality than if it executes some people with some expedition.

Might as well ask fruit to stay green, as the Virginian said.

 

[isabelle]

States here that have the death penalty also have some of the highest murder rates.

In fact, when the death penalty was abolished in France in 1981, the majority of the people wanted to keep it... it was abolished by the new government, against the majority opinion. Very quickly though, the majority of the people were glad it had been abolished, and now anyone born after 1980 (or maybe after 1970) will tell you they are against capital punishment, because they grew up in a society devoid of it.
This is probably because the fact is that the murder rate has steadily been going down in France, death sentence or no death sentence. I couldn't tell you why; but the death penalty certainly doesn't work as a deterrent, that's for sure.