Author Topic: Female Sexuality in BBM  (Read 22989 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2008, 10:39:41 pm »
Love it... Atz!!

See my thread: If Lureen is lesbian too... please.

Hugs!!

I'll say, again, that I don't think that Lureen is meant to be portrayed as a lesbian.  I don't think any of the female characters in BBM are overtly meant to represent a lesbian character or a lesbian point of view. 

I don't think we're given enough evidence either visually or within the script, etc. to suggest that Lureen (or any of them) are either lesbian or bisexual.

The interesting point in BBM - the film at least - is that each one of the major female characters is very different from the others.  Cassie is very different from Lureen.  Lureen is very different from Alma.  Junior even confronts Cassie... emphasizing Junior's own individuality in contrast to other female figures. 

They're all complex in their individuality even without the inclusion of a really major difference such as a lesbian identity among any of them.  The female characters represent something of the diversity that can exist among women within the one category of straight women.  And, of course, the women in the film are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of diversity among women.  That's what's so interesting about how the film of BBM incorporates the women characters.  The film makes them far more "real" or "fleshed-out" characters compared to the story, which usually glosses over the women very quickly.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 01:01:14 am by atz75 »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2008, 12:57:50 am »
The film makes them far more "real" or "fleshed-out" characters compared to the story, which usually glosses over the women very quickly.

Which IMO improves the story. It's not just a way to fill time; it genuinely expands the meaning and deepens the tragedy.


Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2008, 05:09:33 pm »
Lureen as a lesbian is a bit over the top  :o :laugh:
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2008, 12:10:28 am »
Thanks brokenbackjack!

Oh, another man, beside I, wow!!

May I quote you brokebackjack:
Quote
Lureen as a lesbian is a bit over the top
.
...

And may I say to you and to all, you are in a way proving that Lureen is lesbian, since she is top!! That is the way I discover now Lureen... as a detective could on second viewings. Not only by looking at her, but what she does, and certainly how!! Take another angle, when you see her, all of you... see that possibility!

Hugs!!


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2008, 01:03:26 am »
Artiste, can I suggest that Lureen's excitement at meeting Jack in the beginning of their relationship is strong evidence that she really is straight.  She's excited about him from the moment that Jack retrieves her hat at the barrel racing event.  She's interested enough in him to approach him at the bar when she senses his reluctance.  She really, really wants to dance with him.  And, probably most importantly, she's very excited and eager for the sexual contact in the car.

These are not behaviors typical of lesbians.  Most lesbians don't show this much interest in men and certainly wouldn't go out of their way to establish a sexual relationship with a man as quickly and as enthusiastically as Lureen demonstrates in BBM.  In fact, many lesbians would go out of their way to avoid the behaviors that Lureen demonstrates.

I think the point about Lureen, is that she's a very confident, sexually-self-aware straight woman.  Her boldness and confidence in going after what she wants are to be applauded (at least from my perspective... I am a lesbian... and I applaud Lureen for her confidence in her own sexuality, which from the scenes we're shown in the film seems strongly heterosexual).  Her self-confidence and assertiveness, I'm thinking is meant to be seen as rather extraordinary and very progressive for a straight woman in Texas during her era.  She's a progressive character in that regard... but not a lesbian.  She's so self-assured in her youth (as we see) that if she was a lesbian... she would not be pursuing Jack.  She would be using her self-confidence and self-awareness to pursue entirely different people (i.e. women).



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Offline Katness

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2008, 06:07:05 am »
I'm going to open up a *really* broad topic here.  But, the scene with Jack and Lureen in the back of the car has been on my mind a lot and it seems to come up for me in a number of different threads lately.  I think it's a particularly intriguing scene because it seems to be mostly about her desire and sexuality while Jack is sort of swept along by it.  She initiates a lot of the contact, she undresses herself, she's on top, etc.  This seems to be an extraordinary moment in the context of BBM because the movie is so much about the men's sexuality. 

So, I just wonder how people feel the movie treats the subject of female sexuality (again I know this is a big topic) when it comes to the main female characters in the film.  Lureen, Alma, Cassie, and Alma Jr. in the last scene.

I'll start with some "starter" questions/ obervations (beginning with my Lureen observation above).

Alma:
I think one of the more disturbing aspects of the story and film with regard to this topic is Ennis's persistence in having sex with Alma in "positions" that she does not like.  As much as I love Ennis, this is a really upsetting thing for me to deal with/ think about.  As much as I sympathize with his dilemma and his own pain, I think the way he treats Alma in bed is one of the worst aspects of his character.  And I don't recall this topic being hashed out in great depth too often.  So, I'd be interested in hearing what people have to say about this.

Cassie:
Maybe somewhat similar to the situation with Lureen, we get a sense that Cassie is sexually confident and bold.  She's not afraid to make first moves or ask guys to dance (as we see Lureen will do too).  But, it seems that the movie treats Lureen and Cassie differently when it comes to this topic, but it's hard for me to pinpoint how.  And, maybe both Cassie and Lureen are meant to illustrate different reactions to frustration.

Alma Jr.:
I always feel so sad at the end of the movie that Alma Jr. is getting married so young to a "roughneck".  I know I'm supposed to feel happy that she's in love, etc.  But, honestly, I feel sorry for her. I feel like she's shown to be trapped in a bit of a cycle of little opportunity and a narrow social sphere.  It's also interesting that Ennis doesn't ask Alma Jr. if she's in love... only whether Kurt loves her.  What's up with that?



And, this is a sort of selfish question about this topic for me... in a movie that's so much about exploring the nuances of the love between two men and gay male sexuality and the societal pressures put on those relationships (not just Jack and Ennis's but also Earl and Rich and even Randall in his situation), why is there seemingly no hint about gay female sexuality?

In my mind, when I put Alma, Alma. Jr, Cassie and Laureen together. I think Alma loves Ennis to the point that she will do anything for him so long as he is her's. I believe Alma is in denial about Ennis being in love with Jack. And she her self still loves him. So even though she doesn't like the sex that Ennis likes she will still consent to it because she wants to feel like he will be her's even if it is just an illusion. Alma consenting to something she doesn't like though or rather the way Ennis treats her in bed disturbs me too. Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind that particular form of sex, just so long as both parties enjoy it to the fullest.

Alma Jr, did get married quite young. (she was 20 right?) but I think Ennis only asked her if Curt loved her because he, having realized just in how much pain Alma Sr was in their relationship, didn't want Curt treating Ennis' daughter the same way. But I believe he trusted that his own Daughter knew what she was doing.

Cassie and Laureen to me are both similar in that they are more dominant, action type girls then Ennis was. Jack (like I said before) to me was more of an action guy which is probably what attracted him even remotely to Laureen and vice versa in the first place. Then you have the opposites attract (in some cases) like Ennis and Cassie. Ennis was the more quiet, subdued one, like I was hence my identifying as an Ennis when I was younger. Where as Cassie is the more talkative take charge one.

My feeling that there being no hint of female homosexuality or little hint of female bisexuality is because in the 60's it was probably more common for someone even a woman to hide their same sex attractions. And with women already being able to admire another woman in those days and do things non sexual that would make two men look gay, it was probably harder to spot the lesbians in society unless they themselves specified.

Thats just my interpretation. I'm going to read more of this thread.

Sincerely, Kat.
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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2008, 12:06:06 am »
ARTISTE, I STILL THINK THE OLD BAT DOWN IN CHILDRESS WAS STRAIGHT!
How are you?

been a while...
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2008, 08:58:18 am »
Where you been? You must have got those notes we left at your place!

 ;D

Good to see you back, Jack!  :D

Katherine





Offline Artiste

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2008, 10:39:01 am »
Atz you say:
          But, the scene with Jack and Lureen in the back of the car has been on my mind a lot and it seems to come up for me in a number of different threads lately.  I think it's a particularly intriguing scene because it seems to be mostly about her desire and sexuality while Jack is sort of swept along by it.  She initiates a lot of the contact, she undresses herself, she's on top, etc.  This seems to be an extraordinary moment in the context of BBM because the movie is so much about the men's sexuality. 

           

.........

Atz, may I dare ask if this could be a method that a lesbian would take ?
This just comes to my mind... among methods that lesbians maybe do, some prefer ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Marge_Innavera

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Re: Female Sexuality in BBM
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2008, 11:58:18 am »
I agree with what you say, Amanda. When Alma has an interchange with Monroe right after the interchange with Ennis, she and we are meant to see the contrast between the brutish Ennis and the sympathetic Monroe. I don't think Monroe was considered to be much of a catch in Wyo. even though he was a successful merchant.

FR - why wouldn't Monroe be considered as a catch? I'd have thought mothers for miles around would be cueing him up at the church socials for their daughters  ;D

Monroe was really the kind of guy who would be many a woman's dream of a second husband.  Or the guy who usually gets to go to the prom in high school but the girl he goes with said yes after the boy she really wanted to ask her asked someone else.

The impression I had from the grocery scene was that he and Alma had known each other since high school.  IMO it's a reasonable assumption that Alma is from Riverton originally since she has a sister in the area.

(I know I'm answering some really old posts; but happened to notice this thread had been revived -- it covers scenes that don't get much discussion in comparison to others.)