Author Topic: Jack was maligned unfairly  (Read 14151 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 11:18:28 am »
And, Amanda, I got the quote wrong... I think it was "He used to try." This is from the "pissant" scene.

Oh, sure, that's good too.  But, you know the interview I mean with Jake, right?  It's one of the special features on the DVD where he goes on and on about not being the best at cowboy skills (not so great at riding horses, etc.) and he thought that was OK because he wanted to maintain the sense that Jack also didn't always have the best cowboy skills... but that Jack tried and tried.  Jake sort of sounds like he's struggling to articulate how to best say this... but it also feels like he would be right at home on this thread discussing this issue!
 :D



If Ennis was jealous of Jack over something my feeling is that it would be over Jack's relative comfort in his own skin.  I wonder if Ennis was a little bit in awe of Jack's comfort at striking up conversations and in his open-ness- relative to Ennis's painful reserve.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 02:03:13 pm »
Quote
In Ennis's ribbing, were there elements not only of admiration, but also envy and jealousy??

f Ennis was jealous of Jack over something my feeling is that it would be over Jack's relative comfort in his own skin.  I wonder if Ennis was a little bit in awe of Jack's comfort at striking up conversations and in his open-ness- relative to Ennis's painful reserve.

I agree with Amanda, and would say that it was more awe than jealousy.

If anyone had jealousy over Jack's open-ness and lack of inhibition, it was John Twist.  A poster once said that meeting John was part of Ennis' evolution: that he was seeing a future version of himself if he didn't change his ways. I don't disagree.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 03:58:00 pm »
A poster once said that meeting John was part of Ennis' evolution: that he was seeing a future version of himself if he didn't change his ways. I don't disagree.

Ooooo!  That's a very interesting point.  I wonder though if Ennis would have ever been *that* hostile and mean-spirited.  I could imagine Ennis becoming more and more and more introverted.  Maybe that would go hand in hand with becoming more openly bitter and hostile.  But, Ennis in general seems like a very different personality than John Twist.  But, it's an intriguing suggestion as to the significance of this meeting.

I think it caused him to learn a lot about Jack.  It probably caused him to realize the folly of the comment that Ennis made during the last argument that he thought Jack "forgot what it's like to be broke all the time."  Given how his parents lived, Jack surely hadn't forgotten what poverty is all about. 
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 04:17:48 pm »
It probably caused him to realize the folly of the comment that Ennis made during the last argument that he thought Jack "forgot what it's like to be broke all the time."  Given how his parents lived, Jack surely hadn't forgotten what poverty is all about. 
Good point, Amanda! In fact, I counted several times when Ennis dissed Jack unfairly. It may have been three times! But I think it was more than that.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 04:30:48 pm »
It's interesting to try to sort out the instances when Ennis is *teasing* Jack in a fun way (a flirting way or a way that indicates the level of their friendship) vs. the moments when his "dissing" becomes mean-spirited (as in the argument scene... I've always thought the "boys like you" was an awfully harsh thing for Ennis to say... even in the heat of an argument).

Poor Jack.

 :(

I think it's sort of easy to see him as a bit of a puppy that gets kicked a lot (so to speak).  His Dad is mean to him, Ennis is hard to deal with (at least sometimes), L.D. is mean to him, the customers at the tractor dealership (and probably by extension a lot of people in Childress) are mean to him, etc.  This is on top of the sad notion that most of Jack's ideas/ dreams "never came to pass."  And then he dies young (either by murder or by horrible accident!!


 :'( :'(
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2007, 05:37:58 am »
To tell ya the truth I think Ennis just knew it was some goddayumed god awful harmonica playin and wished that harmonica had broke in two when the mare threw him, to spair EDM's ears.

That was some lousy marmonica playin JT did. We malign him fairly!

annie was correct, the man was marginally skilled.......
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2007, 01:17:07 pm »

Poor Jack.

 :(

I think it's sort of easy to see him as a bit of a puppy that gets kicked a lot (so to speak).  His Dad is mean to him, Ennis is hard to deal with (at least sometimes), L.D. is mean to him, the customers at the tractor dealership (and probably by extension a lot of people in Childress) are mean to him, etc.  This is on top of the sad notion that most of Jack's ideas/ dreams "never came to pass."  And then he dies young (either by murder or by horrible accident!!


Sure, and we all hate to see Jack be treated that way. Getting more into the psychology of Jack though - how much of the mistreatment by others could he have deflected or changed? In some ways because of his unassertive nature, Jack was the "puppy that gets kicked a lot" so to speak. I hate to say he allowed it, but in a way he did. I really saw Jack develop his assertiveness though, throughout the movie with the culmination at the FLS. Perhaps Jack's ideas/dreams 'never came to pass' because he lacked follow-through and self-confidence (yes, he was confident in some things but not the 'biggies' - his ideas/dreams). Maybe he had a self-fulfilling expectation of failure- and maybe others saw this in him too.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2007, 01:40:53 pm »
Maybe you're right...but look at the facts: Jack had a successful marriage and was a good father, even tho he never wanted to get married or have kids. Jack was successful financially, and was a good businessman, and the best combine salesman they had. He regularly made the long trip back to the godforesaken wilderness of Wyoming to visit his parents and look after their needs. He got his teeth fixed LOL. He went to charity fundraisers. He stopped to help people stranded by the side of the road. He rescued fair maidens whose husbands were too busy oogling him to dance.  He...

I won't be happy until you all say in unison JACK WAS MALIGNED UNFAIRLY!!  8)

Oh, and you know who actually played that harmonica? It was Gustavo!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2007, 02:11:08 pm »
Only for LEE:

JACK WAS MALIGNED UNFAIRLY


He was a world class harmonica player.


{ on the non debatable side, he was a good man, he loved his boyfriend so much it destroyed him, he was handsome, he had a good good heart; Jack loved his son, liked his wife, told LD to drop dead and last but not least I also hear he was hung like the proverbial horse. }
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2007, 02:24:55 pm »
hehe, bbjack, I was just writing about how Jack was like a horse, but I didn't think of that one! (Who cares with that tongue of his!!) Go look at this:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1039.msg172121.html#msg172121

oh, and if you go back one page you can also read more on the harmonica issue written by our FRiend EDelMar!!


"chewing gum and duct tape"