Author Topic: What is your religion?  (Read 48722 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2006, 07:40:18 am »
Beautiful posts, everyone.  Chris, I'm in that group of people who believes everything is a miracle.  I do believe in a higher power in a sense - I worship the sun.  And I don't mean I'm working on a tan.  I mean I worship the fact that we are where we are in relation to that sun in the first place - it's what has made all things possible on this planet.  Nature is my God.  And Science is what I use to talk to her.  I loved what you said about the text not having to be true in order to impart its lessons, too.  And I think I know why some people have to believe it's true in order to make sense of their world.  Because they are afraid.  To die.  So afraid of it that they've forgotten how to live.  That's how organized religion gets its followers - by dangling the promise of immortality in front of the masses.  I find fundamentalist Christians to be using their religion as a justification for judging others.  And I think they need to judge others because it makes them feel better about their sorry-ass existences.  There's a line in a Linkin Park song that goes like this:  "You think having the upper hand means you gotta keep putting me down."  That pretty much nails it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 08:42:55 am by ednbarby »
No more beans!

TJ

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2006, 01:15:06 pm »
Because of I know the "official" history of those who "believe in the Pentecost" like Jack Twist's mother did and the fact that Roberta Maxwell, who portrayed her in the movie, said that Mrs. John C. Twist, Sr. was Pentecostal, I chose an alternate answer which was "Non-organized Christian."

Pentecostal churches, independent congregations, semi-non-denomination and denominational ones, are not historically speaking Protestant churches.

According to Catholic and Protestant denominational histories, for a church to be officially a Protestant Church, it has to have split from the Roman Catholic Church AND have Martin Luther in its official history.

None of the Pentecostal Churches, referred to either as denominations or fellowships which began 100 years ago, are a split from any particular denomination, not the RCC nor any Protestant Church.

The United Pentecostal Church, an non-trinitarian doctrine denomination, does have in its history people who split from the Assemblies of God Fellowship which is Trinitarian in doctrine.

This year is the 100th anniversary of the Azusa Street revivals which took place in Los Angeles.
You can read some about it here at this link. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week935/cover.html
The offical website is here: http://www.azusastreet100.net/

The General Council of the Assemblies of God (AG) which has the Azusa Street meetings in its history can be found here. http://ag.org/top/


Annie Proulx does not have Jack Twist even discuss "The Pentecost" in her original story. Unlike what is said in the movie, and using my own experiences here and if he were an actual person, Jack Twist more than likely told Ennis Del Mar what the Pentecost was if his mother was actually Pentecostal, even if his father did not attend church regularly.

Since the movie's Ennis Del Mar stated that his "folks were Methodist," I believe that Ennis might have known a little bit about what "the Pentecost" meant, too; because the Methodists, like most Protestant denominations, have a "Pentecost Sunday" every year.

In the book, what is in the following quote is the only thing connected with any kind of religious belief.

Quote
Ennis rode easy, sleeping with his eyes open, but the hours he was away from the sheep stretched out and out. Jack pulled a squalling burr out of the harmonica, flattened a little from a fall off the skittish bay mare, and Ennis had a good raspy voice; a few nights they mangled their way through some songs. Ennis knew the salty words to "Strawberry Roan." Jack tried a Carl Perkins song, bawling "what I say-ay-ay," but he favored a sad hymn, "Water-Walking Jesus," learned from his mother who believed in the Pentecost, that he sang at dirge slowness, setting off distant coyote yips.

I know that I made this a little long here. Although I am Pentecostal by experience and my basic doctrinal beliefs are very much like the Assemblies of God's "16 Fundamental Truths," and I grew up attending regular church services and special services, I prefer to say that "I was raised AT home and not in a church." The only people that I have known who were raised in a church were those who actually lived in one while growing up. My Parents were Pentecostal by experience, too. But, they did not demand that their children believe just like them. They taught us to make our own choices and believe according to what we felt the Holy Spirit wanted us to believe. 

TJ

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2006, 01:47:15 pm »
From my previous posting:

Quote
Annie Proulx does not have Jack Twist even discuss "The Pentecost" in her original story. Unlike what is said in the movie, and using my own experiences here and if he were an actual person, Jack Twist more than likely told Ennis Del Mar what the Pentecost was if his mother was actually Pentecostal, even if his father did not attend church regularly.

When I was in the 4th and 5th grades, my father pastored Washington Community Assemby of God in rural Rogers County to the NE of Claremore, Oklahoma. His younger brother attended a "Free Holiness Church," which was not quite a denominational church but loosely connected with other Free Holiness Churches. Uncle Raymond's brother-in-law was the pastor of that church. Many of those who attended a Free Holiness Church in rural Oklahoma believed that one only had to go to school as required by the law which said school attendance until age 16. Some of them even thought the King James Version of the Bible was the only one God authorized for Christians to read.

In those Pentecostal churches, even when the husband did not attend church, except maybe on special occasions, his wife attended almost every service and if they had children, their children went to Sunday morning church which was both Sunday School and congregational worship afterwards. One learned about the Pentecost and what it meant to be Pentecostal in Sunday School.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2006, 01:59:38 pm »
Quote
Anni Many of those who attended a Free Holiness Church in rural Oklahoma believed that one only had to go to school as required by the law which said school attendance until age 16. Some of them even thought the King James Version of the Bible was the only one God authorized for Christians to read.

The Amish also do not believe in higher education.  Their children are only educated to the age of what is required by law.

TJ

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2006, 02:14:14 pm »
Quote
Anni Many of those who attended a Free Holiness Church in rural Oklahoma believed that one only had to go to school as required by the law which said school attendance until age 16. Some of them even thought the King James Version of the Bible was the only one God authorized for Christians to read.

The Amish also do not believe in higher education.  Their children are only educated to the age of what is required by law.

I know about the Amish because we have them in Oklahoma. Mixed among the Amish are people who are Mennonites who have a similar doctrine but, Mennonites are not anti-education. I went to college with Mennoites whom I had known in grade school, too.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2006, 09:39:07 pm »
Beautiful posts, everyone.  Chris, I'm in that group of people who believes everything is a miracle.

Me too Barb, and thanks everyone for the nice compliments.  I'm totally cool with your sun/nature worship.  You know I've always seen spirituality as a higher ideal than religion.  Simply put, spirituality is the connection with the divine.  Religion is a human creation, and although *should* lead to spirituality, the fact that it is caught up in the human condition (interpreted and dictated) means that it will also always be one step below.  When I was a little younger I asked myself "was religion really such a bad thing"?  I mean, can I really condemn a philosophy that teaches people (or tries to) to be nice to each other?  Of course the answer is no.  The problem is with people not with religion, but I worry a lot about the people in the role of priest (or whatever).  What is the spiritual qualification for this role?  Do they need to be "good people", or do we assume they are because they learn scripture?  I tell ya, the only people that I listen to about life/love are the ones that are better at it than I am, which pretty much eliminates anyone who would try to tell me how to live/love.

I know that I made this a little long here. Although I am Pentecostal by experience and my basic doctrinal beliefs are very much like the Assemblies of God's "16 Fundamental Truths," and I grew up attending regular church services and special services, I prefer to say that "I was raised AT home and not in a church." The only people that I have known who were raised in a church were those who actually lived in one while growing up. My Parents were Pentecostal by experience, too. But, they did not demand that their children believe just like them. They taught us to make our own choices and believe according to what we felt the Holy Spirit wanted us to believe. 

Hi TJ, just a quick acknowledgement for your posts, and respect for your beliefs and experience.  The one thing that I would add for you to what I've said in my previous posts is that if your faith and doctrine brings you closer to spirit, then it does it for me also.  Take care, be happy, and peace.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

moremojo

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"You ask for a profession of faith?"
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2006, 09:16:58 pm »
I have not yet responded to the poll (thinking that "other" probably would suit me best), but in the meantime I would like to share an inspiring passage, quite dear to me, from the Sufi master Ibn al-Arabi, who lived from 1165 to 1240. This passage, which I quote from memory (and whose translator, from the original Arabic, I cannot remember), poetically evokes some of my own spiritual views:

You ask for a profession of faith?
My heart encompasses many forms
The mosque,
    The church,
        The synagogue,
            Even idolater's fane
All shelter within me.
Wherever Love's caravan winds its way--
     There lies my path, my religion.

Scott
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:11:55 pm by moremojo »

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: "You ask for a profession of faith?"
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2006, 11:50:58 pm »
You ask for a profession of faith?
My heart encompasses many forms...

That's really beautiful Scott, I can really identify with the sentiment.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

TJ

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2006, 01:15:41 pm »
Here is a link to a discussion thread where I was asked to to talk about Jack's Mother who believed in the Pentecost by one of the forum moderators who had first discussed the idea of such a topic with another moderator.

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1162.0

It is a discussion for and by those who understand and accept the Pentecostal POV as related to their own experiences.

To be Pentecostal is not actually a church denomination, it is a special experience not limited to any one Christian denomination. Besides, during the 1st Century AD, all the churches were Pentecostal ones.

Offline Shuggy

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Re: What is your religion?
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2006, 04:47:39 am »
The Amish also do not believe in higher education.  Their children are only educated to the age of what is required by law.


I know about the Amish because we have them in Oklahoma. Mixed among the Amish are people who are Mennonites who have a similar doctrine but, Mennonites are not anti-education. I went to college with Mennoites whom I had known in grade school, too.
I have a lovely book about the fundies by a gay man with an Amish background. In the last chapter he goes back to them and finds they are much more tolerant than the Fallwell crowd. It's at home and I'm at my man's place, but I'll post its details tomorrow.