Do You Think They All Knew? Jacks Parents? Laureen?

[RossInIllinois]

We Know Alma knew. I think Yes, at the end they all suspected even Laureen by the demeanor on the phone.  Even Alma jr knew IMO. What do you think?

[serious crayons]

We Know Alma knew. I think Yes, at the end they all suspected even Laureen by the demeanor on the phone.  Even Alma jr knew IMO. What do you think?

Everyone who knew of both of their existences knew or probably knew: Aguirre, obviously. Alma, obviously. Lureen, yes at the end. Alma Jr., probably. Jenny, don't know. Mr. and Mrs. Twist, definitely.

Those who were aware of only one of them -- Cassie, LaShawn, the Newsomes, Bobby, (who am I missing?) -- did not. Randall knew Jack was gay but probably didn't know about Ennis.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Those who were aware of only one of them -- Cassie, LaShawn, the Newsomes, Bobby, (who am I missing?)

Monroe? 

I'm thinking Lureen knew long before she learned from Ennis about the summer on Brokeback Mountain. I'm thinking that when Jack told Ennis the fib about the "ranch foreman's wife," and how he expected he might get shot by Lureen every time he snuck off to see the "her," it was a--pardon the expression-twist on the truth that Lureen, at that point, at least had her suspicions that Jack was on the down-low.

Of course, since I've always held that Jack was murdered in a gay bashing, and that the exploding tire story was concocted so Lureen could save face in the community, I have to think that she knew by then, even if she didn't realize how much Ennis meant to Jack until she received Ennis's phone call.

[serious crayons]

Monroe? 

Actually, I thought about Monroe, and left him out because in this respect he's a complete cipher. He didn't know Jack, so on that basis you could think he didn't know.But you'd think Alma might have told him. On the other hand, she just as easily might not have -- it's such a point of shame for Alma that she didn't even bring it up with Ennis! She might have been even more reluctant to share the info about her new husband.

Too hard to call, one way or the other.

I'm thinking Lureen knew long before she learned from Ennis about the summer on Brokeback Mountain.

Yes, I'm also of the mind that Lureen at least had a pretty good idea before she even picked up the phone, but I guess it's debatable. I think by the end of that phone call there's no question that she knew for sure.
 


 

[brokebackjack]

Well, Alma knew from the day of the Reunion. It ended her marriage, Ennis married Jack in that motel. Lureen knew, it turned her into an empty shell, lifeless. When she knew Jack liked men is unknowable but she knew who and what Ennis was to Jack. She knew when he said they'd herded sheep back in 63. She probably understood there was something very wrong but buried it, unable to deal with it....again no way of knowing. Aguirre knew, he saw them. Jimbo caught on with Jack. LD knew. NOBODY can tell me LD didn't know, he all but called Jack a faggot at the man's own dinner table. Lureen's mother had heard it all from LD and MAY have suspected but who knows. Randall knew. In the deleted scenes he was kissing Jack, I'm sure they were left out because it would have destroyed the flow, and changed the audience's view of Jack BUT if that is the case it was likely he knew Jack loved a man in Wyoming; you can't hide that, he would have known it was convenience sex. The 2 Twists knew, probably since Jack was little. And [apparently] Jack spoke about Ennis to his father, and mother, with pride. Munroe is an enigma; I can't see Alma telling him. Juniour knew. Jenny we know nothing about. Cassie did not know but may--MAY--have realised it at the end, when she knew she wasn't answer; that phrase: "Girls don't fall in love with fun" can--CAN--be an indication but that would again be inferring what we don't know.  Is there anybody else aside from BBM?

[serious crayons]

Oh, are we talking about who knew Jack and Ennis had a relationship going, or who knew one or the other was gay? There are different answers. I was answering the former. The latter would greatly expand the list.

Would it be simpler to say who didn't know they were gay? Let's see. LaShawn, Cassie, maybe Monroe, Carl ...

[brokebackjack]

I'm the one at fault, not you. I answered a combo

Relationship? Alma; eventually Lureen; Randall; Joe Aguirre; Alma Juniour--I'm certain she figured it out but that's an inferred answer; the Dick, John Twist; Mrs Twist.

Gay/Bi etc? LD Newsome; Jimbo; Fayette via LD's contempt, might have shrugged it off; VERY iffy--Cassie in the diner.

Inferred: the rodeo circuit--it's small, word about Jack would have got around. there was a deleted scene where jimbo's buddies confronted Jack.

[Jeff Wrangler]

the Dick,

Who? 

[brokebackjack]

Just who it says Jeff--the Dick, John Twist

[Kd5000]

I wonder if LaShawn ever wises up on her husband. "Oh, Randall's not mechanically inclined."   

ALMA: Yes, I presume raising the issue with Ennis if he had found another woman to marry was her way to see if her husband was totally gay (maybe).

ALMA Jr: if not in 1982, she sure had a clue and would be more certain as time moves on.  I mean her father never married again.

Lureen:  I still think she thought Jack might have had a thing for another woman. Either that or she was in denial. The phone call from Ennis causes something to click in her head. 

L.D.: Don't know. I just thought he took every opportunity he could to insult Jack.

Jack parent's: Mom YES, dad more then likely (some denial there no doubt)

L.D.'s wife:  No. Just thought her daughter could have married better.  No dialog exchange between her and Jack. Don't know if that mean she wasn't to fond of Jack or if she was just a quiet lady.

I don't think Alma discussed what she saw Jack and Ennis doing with Monroe. Though I don't think Monroe was homophobic. 

Aguiree: Well yeah, though he fades pretty fast from the movie.

Randall: Yes. Figured out Jack pretty fast.

Cassie:  Your dad not being the marrying type Alma (Jr)?  She has a clue, though I don't know how worldly ppl were in 1982 about gay guys being like Ennis. Maybe she just thought he was a loner and stuck in his shell.  Certainly doesn't know about Jack.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Just who it says Jeff--the Dick, John Twist

Oh, that Dick. 

(The capital D confused me. I confuse easily. ...) 

[Artiste]

Thanks to you all!!

I find this question a very important one!! Even CAPITAL!!

Am glad that is being discussed.

And hopefully more will be said!!

Thanks for starting this Ross in Illinois, and to all thanks!!

Hugs!!

[RossInIllinois]

Alma jr knew for sure there is a scene between Cassie and Alma jr where she tells Cassie Well....maybe he's not the marrying kind. but it seems to go over Cassie's head.

[jpwagoneer1964]

Alma obviously knew but I don't think she understood and perhaps knew Ennis didn't understand his own feelings either. She had remained married to Ennis for 8 years after seeing him with Jack so it's not fair to say it was the cause of their divorce. Had Ennis been a better provider, more willing top be social with Alma she would likely remain married to him. She did love him.

[RossInIllinois]

Alma obviously knew but I don't think she understood and perhaps knew Ennis didn't understand his own feelings either. She had remained married to Ennis for 8 years after seeing him with Jack so it's not fair to say it was the cause of their divorce. Had Ennis been a better provider, more willing top be social with Alma she would likely remain married to him. She did love him.

Yea I agree totally.

[brokebackjack]

Alma obviously knew but I don't think she understood and perhaps knew Ennis didn't understand his own feelings either. She had remained married to Ennis for 8 years after seeing him with Jack so it's not fair to say it was the cause of their divorce. Had Ennis been a better provider, more willing top be social with Alma she would likely remain married to him. She did love him.

Yeah, she adored Ennis, would have stayed and continued to cast a blind eye on the situation if he'd shown ANY interest in her as a woman, or any interest in being a husband...

[Artiste]

I think that is where Annie goes wrong maybe, may I dare say!!

That Ennis's wife continues to be married to him, after she sees her husband and Jack kissing so much and mutually!!

?

Hugs to you all!!

[brokebackjack]

A lot of women stay.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I think that is where Annie goes wrong maybe, may I dare say!!

That Ennis's wife continues to be married to him, after she sees her husband and Jack kissing so much and mutually!!

?

Hugs to you all!!

Remember, it's a small, rural town in the mid 1960s. Alma's options were very limited, or at least, she herself perceived her options to be very limited. When she does finally dump Ennis, what does she do? Set up a life of her own? No, almost immediately she remarries and goes on being a wife and mother.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokenbackjack, and Jeff Wrangler!!

That is still very, very much a big puzzle to me!!

Jack's, wife married the one she worked for? Yes.... his name again?

That puzzles me, right there!

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

[moremojo]

Inferred: the rodeo circuit--it's small, word about Jack would have got around. there was a deleted scene where jimbo's buddies confronted Jack.

This could have been a major factor in Jack's decision to leave the rodeo world, though he makes no mention of it to Ennis, in either story or film. He wouldn't have, of course, because he recognizes Ennis's homophobia, and would not wish to unnecessarily provoke him.

[Artiste]

Would Jimbo and his buddies have killed Jack, because Jack wanted sex with men??

Who is this Jimbo??

Hugs!!

[moremojo]

Who is this Jimbo??

In the film, Jimbo is the rodeo clown that Jack approaches in the bar after having worked with him earlier in a rodeo. This scene comes fairly early in the film, after the boys' departure from Brokeback in 1963 but before their reunion in 1967; I don't have the published screenplay before me, but I think we are meant to infer that the Jimbo encounter takes place in Texas.

Jimbo might not necessarily have harmed Jack, but he definitely got a "vibe" from Jack, and rejected him. I think his approaching his bar buddies is meant to foreshadow the possible murder of Jack later in the story; it's certainly a tense scene. So, yes, I do think some of those men would have been capable and willing to kill Jack for being gay.

[RossInIllinois]

In the film, Jimbo is the rodeo clown that Jack approaches in the bar after having worked with him earlier in a rodeo. This scene comes fairly early in the film, after the boys' departure from Brokeback in 1963 but before their reunion in 1967; I don't have the published screenplay before me, but I think we are meant to infer that the Jimbo encounter takes place in Texas.

Jimbo might not necessarily have harmed Jack, but he definitely got a "vibe" from Jack, and rejected him. I think his approaching his bar buddies is meant to foreshadow the possible murder of Jack later in the story; it's certainly a tense scene. So, yes, I do think some of those men would have been capable and willing to kill Jack for being gay.

FYI a much larger scene was filmed between "Jimbo" and his friends and Jack. The original scene includes a confrontation of all parties.

[Artiste]

Thanks, thanks moremojo and RossInIllinois!!

In the movie, I did feel that that Jimbo, after refusing Jack, went to talk to his buddies against Jack... and that was maybe to kill Jack (because Jack wanted sex with Jimbo)!! Is that so too in Annie's story?
?

And RossInIllinois, you do say this:
FYI a much larger scene was filmed between "Jimbo" and his friends and Jack. The original scene includes a confrontation of all parties.
...
How did you find this out cocerning this LARGER scene, may I ask you RossInIllinois?? Is that too in Annie's story??

Hugs, hugs to you both!!

[RossInIllinois]

Yes, I was there when that sequence was shot.

[brokebackjack]

ARTISTE!!!

You HAVE to read the story.

[Artiste]

Thanks RossInIllinois!

Since you say this:
Yes, I was there when that sequence was shot.
...................................................................

May I ask details of that??

Hugs!!