Author Topic: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?  (Read 22573 times)

Offline Cameron

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Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« on: April 03, 2007, 04:35:34 pm »
The Dozy Embrace is my favorite scene lately.  I watched it again last night and nearly cried.  So I have been thinking about this and I am trying to figure it out.  Why exactly was the DE so sad?  Was it mostly sad because it appeared in the end of the movie, when we knew so much?  Especially the heartbreaking contrast between the beautiful young men that Ennis and Jack were to the sad, broken (esp. Ennis, in MHO) men that they became. Was it sad mainly because of its context?

Or was the DE just inherently sad by itself, devoid of context?  Obviously if it appeared where it should be time wise, near the end of the time up on the mountain, it wouldn't have been so devastating, but I still think would be very poignant and bittersweet on it's own or if it was earlier.  The only thing is I am trying to figure out exactly why?

I guess it was so sad  because of the expression on Ennis/Heath's face, and to hear him talk about his mother and to hear him hum like he did.  But I am not sure really why else the scene so sad on it's own.

I am sure that this has been discussed before, but I do think the film DE and the book DE are entirely different though. I do not believe that the film DE happened because film Ennis was afraid to hug Jack face to face, obviously he wasn't.

Anyway, I am trying to figure out why the DE is so sad, just on it's own.



Scott6373

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 04:39:25 pm »
That's actually quite an easy question to answer.  It represents everything that was, and everything that could have been.  Not just for Jack and Ennis, but for all the characters.  It was a reminder of innocence lost, and opportunity passed by.  Regrets, it was about regrets.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 04:44:57 pm »
Hi Scott,

Yeah that is true completely but that is because we know the about all the regrets.  But when it actually happened there were no regrets yet.  So by itself is it so sad?  Just looking at the scene without thinking about everything else, I think it still is.

I hope that I am being clear and making sense.  Sometimes I don't.



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 04:49:32 pm »
Your questions really made me think, Cameron. At first, I decided that the DE scene would be a happy one if it occurred out of context. But then I thought again. There IS something inherently sad about the scene. There are little clues. The soft grey muted colors. The half-extinguished fire, the smoke, the empty containers, the downcast eyes, heads, and hats, the muffled sounds of the horse. The "trembling" of Ennis's spurs. But, most of all, it's Ennis's rocking and humming of a lullabye. It's knowing that the words unsaid in this scene will remain unsayable and unspoken for their whole lives.

In Asian cultures, it is believed that part of the appeal of beautiful things is that they are fleeting and doomed. Beauty is ephemeral and elusive. Isn't that true? I thought that today as I caught sight of the full moon, shining in all its glory just a minute before it dipped below the horizon.

Ang Lee was in Europe one time attending a film festival and he was standing at a phone booth after the screening of his film near a line of women waiting to get into the restroom. They all had tears streaming down their faces. He said, "Just once I would like to make a movie that doesn't make women cry." His next film, Ride With the Devil, was a tearjerker just like Brokeback Mountain is!
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Scott6373

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 04:50:20 pm »
Hi Scott,

Yeah that is true completely but that is because we know the about all the regrets.  But when it actually happened there were no regrets yet.  So by itself is it so sad?  Just looking at the scene without thinking about everything else, I think it still is.

I hope that I am being clear and making sense.  Sometimes I don't.

No you're making sense. but the scene never existed in our minds before that moment.  It is really just an artistic device, they used...a manipulative one.  We also cannot be sure that the scene even really happened the way it was either written or filmed.  It's Jack's memory, and you know how memories are so long after the fact.  He was a dreamer and an idealist, so it likely never really happened that way.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 04:52:49 pm »
I worked on the Movie. Did you know the Dozy Embrace was really a whole scene that Ang Lee cut out? It was. Ennis sings Jack a whole song in that position one his Mother used to sing to him. It was a BEAUTIFUL scene, Why they cut it from the film I have no idea. What you see was supposed to be a flashback of that original scene. Its a shame they left the whole thing out. It was exquisite.

Scott6373

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2007, 04:55:06 pm »
I worked on the Movie. Did you know the Dozy Embrace was really a whole scene that Ang Lee cut out? It was. Ennis sings Jack a whole song in that position one his Mother used to sing to him. It was a BEAUTIFUL scene, Why they cut it from the film I have no idea. What you see was supposed to be a flashback of that original scene. Its a shame they left the whole thing out. It was exquisite.

I'm not sure I would have liked that.  The FB was so unexpected to a viewer who did not read the story.  It was unsettling and comforting at the same time.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2007, 04:58:43 pm »
Wow!!! That would be something I would give anything to see.  Well almost anything!!  How incredible that you actually worked on the movie.

Lee, thank you for your wonderful answer.  You did lay out all those things that do make it so melancholy.

Another thing was actually thinking about.  In the book it is clearly Jacks flashback, but I was also wondering if in the movie it could have been Ennis's somehow.

I do wish there was some way to actually see the whole scene, I never ever knew that there was to be more.



Offline Cameron

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2007, 05:06:50 pm »
Ross, I just read your post again.  You mean it was to be a whole scene when it actually happened, up on the mountain?

If so when exactly was that?  That's something else that I was always wondering about.



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2007, 05:11:40 pm »
Another excellent discussion of the Dozy Embrace can be found here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,3489.0.html

"chewing gum and duct tape"