Author Topic: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?  (Read 22333 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 08:57:26 am »
And Jeff, I didn't read the book before I saw it  and it took me a few times till I got what was happening. I certainly would love to see that full scene.

Not to question Ang Lee's judgment, or anything,  ::) but I've often wondered about the potential of the flashback to confuse people who were not familiar with the story, since it momentarily confused me, and I've known the story since it was first published in The New Yorker in 1997. It's seemed to me that the cut to the younger Jack was a little abrupt.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Scott6373

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2007, 09:00:40 am »
Not to question Ang Lee's judgment, or anything,  ::) but I've often wondered about the potential of the flashback to confuse people who were not familiar with the story, since it momentarily confused me, and I've known the story since it was first published in The New Yorker in 1997. It's seemed to me that the cut to the younger Jack was a little abrupt.

I had just read the story a week before seeing the film, and I must confess, that I only read it once, so all the nuance wasn't in my soul at that point, but I didn't find it that jarring.  I mean, there was a moments confusion, but I soon realized what I was seeing.  I think Lee may have intended that sense of incongruity, to heighten the emotional moment.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2007, 01:07:29 pm »
I thought the cut away to the flashback was superbly executed; perhaps Lee could have used a fade to show time movement backward, but I think that would have been too literal. The thrill of realizing the flashback quickly, and the "I got it" rush was wonderful...and very, very foreshadowing. Had the flashback been less subtle, the clouds of ominous things to come would have been too obvious, imo.

Also, the dozy embrace itself, was, to me, sensationally uplifiting, joyous, moving, emotional, and truly male. The manner in which low-key Ennis dominates the embrace and hums to Jack is one of the most endearing 'love scenes' on film. I rate it up there with the end kiss between Audrey Hepburn and George Peppard in Breakfast at Tiffany's. The richness of their singular being is clear. pure wonder.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 08:02:48 pm by HerrKaiser »

Offline HorseLove

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2007, 02:38:10 pm »
I would love to have heard Ennis sing.  I think it would have been even more poignant to hear a song coming from Ennis' mouth to Jack's ear.  From a man who hardly says a word, to sing.  From a man who hardly shows affection to embrace another man.  Then when Jack turns to see him leave, Jacks longing glare would've made more sense.  I wonder if it was cut due to movie length?

I would give anything to see the whole scene.
HW

Scott6373

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2007, 02:39:26 pm »
I would love to have heard Ennis sing.  I think it would have been even more poignant to hear a song coming from Ennis' mouth to Jack's ear.  From a man who hardly says a word, to sing.  From a man who hardly shows affection to embrace another man.  Then when Jack turns to see him leave, Jacks longing glare would've made more sense.  I wonder if it was cut due to movie length?

I would give anything to see the whole scene.
HW

Well HW...it's not likely, but ya never know...good to see you posting :)

Offline Cameron

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2007, 02:51:44 pm »
You know what else is different about the DE?  It is the only scene in which Jack is totally quiet and Ennis is speaking, sort of.  I guess that somehow also makes it different and special.

I said it before, but I will say it again.  Oh, I would looooooooove to see the whole scene.

(I wish there was a "sigh" smiley here.)



Offline HorseLove

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2007, 03:27:17 pm »
said it before, but I will say it again.  Oh, I would looooooooove to see the whole scene.


Or at least the name of the song Ennis sang to Jack.  Do you know, RossinIllinois?

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Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2007, 03:50:28 pm »
Or at least the name of the song Ennis sang to Jack.  Do you know, RossinIllinois?

HW

No I sure don't. I was standing a bit off to the side when that was filmed and the dialogue was very soft spoken. I do remember in one take they even rocked a bit as he sang the words to the song.  It was a very sweet scene. It seems in a lot of places Ang didn't like "sweet" once it was cut.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2007, 03:52:17 pm »
I think Lee may have intended that sense of incongruity, to heighten the emotional moment.
Yes, I planned it that way!  ;D No, seriously, I think Ang put in the long tracking shot starting at the campfire and up Jack's jeans to help us make the transition. Altho some people probly got stuck at the Jack's jeans part! Also, he showed Jack in a 3/4 profile to make sure we saw the lack of sideburns and mustache. From the little bit of footage that made it into the film plus the rather loud background music it is iimpossible to tell what Ennis is humming. But I have privately thought it might have well been "heddy down" a lullabye that Woodie Guthrie sang to his son Arlo when he was young. I have a recording of this somewheres...

But it was probably really "Waltzing Matilda!" Ross, do you know??

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Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Why was the Dozy Embrace so sad?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2007, 04:06:41 pm »
Yes, I planned it that way!  ;D No, seriously, I think Ang put in the long tracking shot starting at the campfire and up Jack's jeans to help us make the transition. Although some people probly got stuck at the Jack's jeans part! Also, he showed Jack in a 3/4 profile to make sure we saw the lack of sideburns and mustache. From the little bit of footage that made it into the film plus the rather loud background music it is iimpossible to tell what Ennis is humming. But I have privately thought it might have well been "heddy down" a lullabye that Woodie Guthrie sang to his son Arlo when he was young. I have a recording of this somewheres...

But it was probably really "Waltzing Matilda!" Ross, do you know??



Hi read up one for the answer to the last question.  That flash back was a whole big scene. what you see in the final cut are pasted together little snippets of the whole. It was beautiful .