Sacrilege

[Kelda]

bump to find later so I can read properly and reply properly.

[Penthesilea]

If the boys had looked at reality when they came down from the mountain....and really accepted that they weren't going to be able to be together....what would their life had been like?

If Jack had not went looking for Ennis but instead had focused on living what life he could...either with Lureen or 'the foreman's wife'.....

If Ennis had stuck with one of those jobs instead of quitting to go meet Jack twice a year...would he have been better off financially? Had more responsibility?

I don't think they would have been happier. They couldn't change who they were. I think this goes deeper than the dream to be a high-class concert pianist. It is about being the person you truly are, about not pretending, about being accepted.

What I can rely to in Ennis' and Jack's story, is the aspect of pretending to be another person than you are and of living the wrong life. When I grew up, I lived in two different families. In one, I had to pretend all the time. I had to be the reasonable, quiet, unobstrusive child who brings good grades home from school and is more or less non existent for the rest. No friends allowed to bring home, no loud playing, singing, don't talk too much. Everything a normal child does was unbearable for my parents. I was more or less non-existent in that family. I had to pretent to be non-existent, I couldn't be the person I am.

In my sencond family, I was just a normal child. And I was just myself. I am not a quiet and unobsrusive person, I am high-spirited, sometimes loud, very talkative, have a bad temper from time to time, love to be around other people, bring friends home, and so on.
All this I could be when living with my second family. And I was not alone there. I had three sisters, we were a loud and jolly bunch and sometimes the sparks flew. I was accepted there the way I was. I was at home there.

I can't tell you how happy I was every time I was allowed to go to my second family (the deal was, I had to stay with my bodily parents for school days, and was allowed to go home on many weekends and during the school holidays).
And how devasted I always was when I had to go back to my bodily parents. How alone, empty and hollow felt all the time I wasn't at home (and that was the greater part of the year).

But: would I have been better off, if I hadn't have my second family at all? If I had never known them? Or if I just had given up and submitted to the life my parents wanted me to live? . No fucking way!
You have no idea how thankful I was (and still am) for my second family. I wouldn't be the person I am today if it weren't for them.

The situation caused me much hurt. But it was better than not having my second family at all. It was better to be myself only for some time and to pretend for the rest of the time than to never be able to be myself at all.

This is not about dreams and plans you have for your life. It is about being who you are and being accepted for yourself.

[Daniel]

That is true also. Sometimes this is the first hurdle that I've had to help my clients overcome. The perception of the self and how the self is restrained or contained by surrounding elements is often the very thing which is preventing forward movement. The inability to be true to the self is the greatest difficulty which we face as a species, and thus when it is conquered, it is our most freeing and empowering moment. When you can become comfortable with your own inner self, befriend the demons and angels within, and be aware that everything that has happened to you (the good and the bad) is what has made you as you are now, then you can really start to see things beyond the perceived limitations that existed before.

[injest]

Man, it is frustrating to want to speak your mind and not having the words to make yourself understand.

I have been thinking about this today...and one of the problems is I am using one word two different ways.

SO....

this is how I define a dream...it is something you would like do or achieve. ex: go on a cruise thru the Greek Islands...that is concievable...you MAY be able to do that.

now there are other dreams that are not...they are FANTASIES: dreaming of flying to Mars...aint happening!!

so...Jack was gay, he DREAMED of being with Ennis...his FANTASY was that Ennis would change and they would be able to have their lil cow and calf operation.

now if he had given UP the fantasy...and worked on the dream...he could have been happier (IMO) He could have moved to Wyoming; took a job near Ennis and seen him much more. But instead he focused on the fantasy....robbing himself of the joy that was POSSIBLE...

that is all I am trying to say...and not very well!! LOL!!

to me the movie is a morality play about living your dreams without being blinded by fantasies...

[Daniel]

Actually, if we go by the movie, I don't think Jack's cow-and-calf operation would have been a fantasy. He said it quite thoughtfully, as though he had been thinking about it for a while, and a precursory glance at his clothing and jewelry in the later scenes of the film reveal that he was quite financially secure, to say the least. Furthermore, Jack had the know-how and probably made a little bit more than his father did even in the earlier scenes of the film. At least, that's how it seems to me. Perhaps someone with more ranching experience might be able to explain it better.

[injest]

but if you pin your dreams to someone ELSE changing to meet your dream...that sends it into fantasy for me....

he was depending on Ennis to change and be willing to do it....Ennis was NOT.

and Jack's money came from Lureen. I would be suprised to see him get much if they divorced...

[Daniel]

It is true that a shared dream does in fact need to be shared in order to be successful, but whether or not the unsatisfactory life of that relationship would have been better if Jack had given up on his hope that Ennis might one day "see the light" remains to be seen. But I think that what you might be suggesting is that Jack may have crossed that thin line between hope and expectation. And expectation, particularly when it is unmet in relationships, can be a spiritually devastating thought-form. Unmet expectation leads to that almost-eternal feeling of incompletion and the long, tedious wait. But more sadly, expectation in the face of impossibility (or at best, severe difficulty) creates the feeling of blame. "If it's not the way I want it, someone must be at fault." Rarely do we look at ourselves for the source of this problem.

I just realized that this sentence, or perhaps the past few sentences, seem harsh in retrospect. Though if I spoke them to myself in some of my more difficult times, I would not have been too insulted.

[injest]

It is true that a shared dream does in fact need to be shared in order to be successful, but whether or not the unsatisfactory life of that relationship would have been better if Jack had given up on his hope that Ennis might one day "see the light" remains to be seen. But I think that what you might be suggesting is that Jack may have crossed that thin line between hope and expectation. And expectation, particularly when it is unmet in relationships, can be a spiritually devastating thought-form. Unmet expectation leads to that almost-eternal feeling of incompletion and the long, tedious wait. But more sadly, expectation in the face of impossibility (or at best, severe difficulty) creates the feeling of blame. "If it's not the way I want it, someone must be at fault." Rarely do we look at ourselves for the source of this problem.

very true....

[Ellemeno]

I was just reading Phillips post, and my story is the reverse of his. Well, maybe not.

My parents insisted on exposing me to music. I started taking piano lessons at the age of 5 and violin lessons a few years later. I fell in love with the violin, so much in fact that I spent the next couple of years nagging my parents to let me take cello lessons too. They finally agreed, and my entire world was immersed in music. My life revolved around it. I loved the violin and cello so much I joined the Carmel Junior Symphony Orchestra by the age of 12 (in addition to the school orchestra). Later, in high school I joined the Carmel Symphony Orchestra. I loved playing in the orchestra and I was certain I wanted to make music my profession. After I graduated from high school, the conductor of the CSO, Victor Zydonis insisted I audition for ISO (Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra). I really thought my "dream" had come true. Now I had the opportunity to play with a major US orchestra and travel. But once I found out the salary I would have been paid, I gave up on the idea. It didn't pay enough; at least not enough at the entry level.

So, I decided to go to college. I decided to study Funeral Service. Why? I don't know. The pay was good, and I liked the idea of working in a profession where I could help people. So, I attended college and earned a three year degree (Indiana only requires a 2 year associate of science degree). After college, I spent the next several years working for a major funeral home in Indianapolis. But after a few years, I found it was draining me emotionally. I was working 70 hours a week, and I was surrounded by grief all the time.

So, I went back to college. This time I earned a degree in accounting. Then, another degree in photography.

Each and every time, I thought I was working towards my dream, and at the time, I think I probably was. But my dreams changed. And, sometimes I found out my "dream" really wasn't my dream at all.  I guess all we can really hope for is a content life, surrounded by people who love us.

I'm currently working as an accountant. I make a pretty good living. I'm not rich, but I'm not poor either. I have a nice house, a good job, lots of friends, a dog and a cat, and a wonderful boyfriend (who just happens to live in a different country in a far away continent, but I digress).

So, am I living my dream? I don't know. But if simply being happy and content is my dream, then I guess I am! 

I still play my music, and it brings me a lot of joy and comfort. But, I still saving up for that baby grand piano! Maybe someday! 

Wow, I didn't know most of that about you, David.  Thanks for telling it.  

[Ellemeno]

I feel so lucky and privileged to read what everyone has written here.  It's an honor.

I guess for me, I am the least degreed member of my family.  The answer to "what do you do?" has rarely been simple or comfortable.  I think most of my family has the quiet, sad opinion that I have wasted my intellect.  And sometimes I get on my own case that way.  But I have had my own drummer to march to, and can't seem to help it.  In the last four years, now that I am a stay at home mother, that is recognizable and acceptable to people, and now my family notices I do a good job at that.  I did a good job at the other stuff too, for the most part, but it was never things they valued. 

So I AM living my dream (even though I worry about the cracks in my living room ceiling, and various other things), and come to find, have been living my dreams most of my life (once I got out of my parents' house).  But I have been often unhappy and confused during the process.  I've envied people who were willing to just stick with something. 

I know this sounds disjointed.

Anyway, it's funny how much we ponder so many "What ifs" for Ennis and Jack.  If it had been any other way it wouldn't have been BBM.  I'm glad they didn't "wise up" and move on away from each other.  Vicariously, I live for their fishing trips too, through them.  I would NOT rather they give those up.

I've lost the topic.  I'm going to post this anyway.