Easter in the story and/or movie, and that religious word!! ??

[Artiste]

For now, I will just say this:
Easter in  the story and/or movie, and that religious word (about the meaning of Easter) !! ??

And ask you about it!! ??

You need a clue?? Or you giving me a clue??

Hugs!!

[David In Indy]

I always understood it was originally a pagan festival. The celebration of Spring and all things coming back to life again. This is why Easter always occurs on the first Sunday after the first full moon of Spring.

Easter Eggs = beginning of life, birth.

Easter basket = mother's womb

Rabbit = creation and/or innocence, new life

It made perfect sense to celebrate Christ's ressurection on such a day,  so the Church declared Easter as a Christian religious holiday.

[Artiste]

Thanks David!

Your comments are one view... by many persons.

Let's not forget that Easter always accents death!! Too!!

And finishes with birth of another form: after-life!! And present life... somehow as we think  to make it better.

Coming back to my question which is also about the Brokeback Mountain story and/or movie:
Easter in  the story and/or movie, and that religious word!! ?? Can you say about it?? More??

Hugs!!

[Artiste]

Easter was NOT in the movie nor in Annie's story??

Hugs!!

[Lynne]

Some interpretations of Brokeback Mountain suggest that the whole film is essentially an Easter story...I won't go through the whole analysis here, but the gist of it is that Jack is a Christ figure and that it is through the sacrifice of Jack's death that Ennis finds forgiveness and life.

The most direct reference to Easter that I can think of is the 'My Mama believes in the Pentecost' scene where Jack confuses the Pentecost with the Rapture.  The Pentecost refers to the Holy Spirit being sent to the world after the resurrection of Christ on Easter.

-Lynne

[Artiste]

Thanks Lynne!!

You say this:
Some interpretations of Brokeback Mountain suggest that the whole film is essentially an Easter story...I won't go through the whole analysis here, but the gist of it is that Jack is a Christ figure and that it is through the sacrifice of Jack's death that Ennis finds forgiveness and life.

The most direct reference to Easter that I can think of is the 'My Mama believes in the Pentecost' scene where Jack confuses the Pentecost with the Rapture.  The Pentecost refers to the Holy Spirit being sent to the world after the resurrection of Christ on Easter.

...

May I comment too:

1 - I do find too that Jack is Christ in some ways!! Gays do get killed for nothing!! I had to save my life!!

And I think that Annie had no choice but to make it like an Easter story!!
It is a great choice, in order to wake up all humans to become civil, more!!
I say that especially gays need to think about this too as we need to be protected, etc., in many ways!!
As gays are getting killed because they are homosexuals as the reason... and that maybe Annie see this as it will get worst... like the islamic so-called religion do NOT accept gays, since they lined them up by the 100 or 1000's to be  killed, yes murdered, by their governments, like in Iran to-day!!

As the muslims take over more and more countries, even our democratic countries in the USA, Canada, England, France, etc., they do not respect gays!!

2 - Explain to me more that rapture, and/or Pentecost??

Hugs!!

[Lynne]

It is a great choice, in order to wake up all humans to become civil, more!!...
Explain to me more that rapture, and/or Pentecost??

It is a good interpretation.  I like how the one true Christian we see in the film is Mrs. Twist through her loving acceptance of Ennis, knowing his relationship with Jack, and her efforts to share and ease Ennis' pain.

I'm no Biblical scholar so I got this from wikipedia and I've decided I'm confused myself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecost

Pentecost (Greek πεντηκοστή [ἡμέρα], pentekostē [hēmera], "the fiftieth day") is the fiftieth day after Easter Sunday, which corresponds to the tenth day after Ascension Thursday. It is a feast in the Christian liturgical calendar — symbolically related to the Jewish festival of Shavuot — that commemorates the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles and the followers of Jesus on that day, as described in the Book of Acts, Chapter 2. Pentecost is also called Whitsun or Whit Sunday in the UK and other English-speaking areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_Day

In Christian eschatology, the Last Judgment or Day of the Lord is the simultaneous judgment of every human, after the resurrection of the dead, before the Great White Throne by Jesus Christ to either eternal life or oblivion in the lake of fire at the end of time. Salvation is granted by Grace based on the individual's surrender and commitment to Jesus Christ.  A second particular judgment called the Bema Seat judgment occurs after salvation (or simultaneously) is discerned when awards are granted based on works toward heavenly treasures.  What happens after death and before the final judgment is hotly contested; some believe all people sleep in Sheol until the resurrection, others believe Christians dwell in heaven and pagans wander the earth, and others consider the time to pass instantaneously. Nevertheless, the body is not fully redeemed until after Death is destroyed after the Great Tribulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

In conservative Protestant Christian eschatology, the rapture ("harpazo" in Greek in 1 Thessalonians 4:17) is the name given to the event in which all Christians living on earth are simultaneously transported to Heaven to be with Jesus Christ. This is a common belief among Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Baptists, and many independents. While almost all Christian groups believe that those who are saved will have eternal life, the term "rapture" is applied specifically to the event in which all Christians on earth simultaneously ascend to join Christ, and are transformed into immortal bodies.

There's plenty of more reading (and confusion) if you follow the wiki links.  I'm now wondering if I've been misinterpreting Jack's explanation to Ennis of the Pentecost - something like 'when fellas like you and me march off to hell..'  This seems more like Jack is referring to Judgment Day than Rapture, because Rapture focuses specifically on the ascension of the saved into Heaven.  I think I've been confusing the two myself.

-Lynne

[Artiste]

Thanks Lynne!!

It is confusing? Annie talks about  the Pentacost; so does the film??
Maybe the 2 scriptwriters added and/or changed Annie's  words or  added their own words??

So, you say that maybe Jack says this: 'when fellas like you and me march off to hell',
so Ennis replies to that as he says he is a virgin!!?? It seems... so, in the film!!
Wonder how many times hell is mentioned in Annie's story??

So if it is not rapture, then it is what??

Rapture maybe in a sense since Jack had Ennis's shirt in his??

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

[Lynne]

Thanks Lynne!!

It is confusing? Annie talks about  the Pentacost; so does the film??
Maybe the 2 scriptwriters added and/or changed Annie's  words or  added their own words??

So, you say that maybe Jack says this: 'when fellas like you and me march off to hell',
so Ennis replies to that as he says he is a virgin!!?? It seems... so, in the film!!
Wonder how many times hell is mentioned in Annie's story??

So if it is not rapture, then it is what??

Rapture maybe in a sense since Jack had Ennis's shirt in his??

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

Annie writes that "...[Jack] favored a sad hymn, Water Walkin' Jesus, learned from his mother who believed in the Pentecost...'

The screenwriters turn that into a conversation where Ennis questions Jack...I can't quote it verbatim, but along the lines of 'What is the Pentecost?  My folks, uh, they was Methodists.'  This always strikes me as sweetly innocent - that Ennis doesn't understand that Methodists would also believe in the Pentecost.

As far as I know, it's a basic tenet of most if not all Christian religions.  Ennis lost his mother when he was young, though, so I doubt she had the opportunity to teach him all she would have wanted to.  Though certainly, Ennis' father managed to scar him irreparably in the short time he was alive.

And then, of course, the script goes on with the joke...'You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity,' which I think is commonly accepted to be Ennis' declaring his virginity to Jack.

My confusion surrounds what exactly Jack is talking about when he says 'guys like you and me, marching off to hell.'  I now think he has the Pentecost confused with the Final Judgment.  Earlier, I mistakenly said the Rapture.

Regarding how many times hell is mentioned, that's an interesting question.  There's plenty of swearing, but in terms of its use as a noun, I'm not sure - it'd be interesting to analyze it, I would think.

[Artiste]

Thanks Lynne!

You say this:
Jack is talking about when he says 'guys like you and me, marching off to hell.'
...

Could I think that Jack says that queers like Ennis and he (Jack) are marching to hell (difficulties) since we are homosexuals ?? Then, in those days especially, being gay was being qualitfied a queer by society, which imprisoned gays and even placed many and/or all in asylums (as you were considered crasy)!! Hell is being gay therfore, then and now to many homosexuals, right??

Awaiting your news on this,

hugs!!

[Front-Ranger]

You may possibly be right about that, Artiste. But, since it's Easter time, I would prefer to dwell upon the theme of redemption. This was touched on right at the beginning of the story, when Ennis woke suffused with joy because Jack had appeared to him in his dreams. There is a reference to the sheets which further contributes to the Christ-like image of Jack in the story, as if Jack were swathed in the shrouds from the tomb. In fact, Ennis shuffles to the stove to reheat leftover coffee, and when he turns on the burner, the pot is swathed in the blue light of the flame. Sheets, coffee, the pot (in fact any container), handles, the color blue, the reference to a swather...all are powerful reminders of Jack. How Annie must have slaved over this short prologue to make every word vibrate with meaning!! I can't imagine how she must have felt when it was left off the story when it was first published.

[Lynne]

...the pot is swathed in the blue light of the flame

Those are great points, Lee - thank you for contributing.  You know that the flame is frequently associated with the Pentecost.  One symbol for the United Methodist Church has a red flame with the crucifix to represent the Holy Spirit.

[Front-Ranger]

Speaking of Methodists, there is a very picturesque little Methodist church at the bottom of TenSleep Canyon as you come down from Brokenback Mountain. I always thought it inspired Annie to make Ennis's family Methodist. I will post a picture of it later.

Jack lives in our hearts today!!

[injest]

Remember also, Artiste, that in rural America you have a lot of churches that call themselves this or that but actually have little or no ties to the 'Official' versions of those religions. There is no legal requirements to be a pastor...anyone can make their own church. In the 1800s an uneducated farm worker wrote his own version of the Bible, for heavens sake! (and it is still popular in small areas!)

so what one church calls "resurrection, rapture, pentecost" ...all those things depend on where you go to church....yes, there are some churches that agree but there are small enclaves in the rural areas of America that run their own belief system...and I believe it used to be even more fragmented than it is now...

You ever hear of the snakehandling churches in the South of the USA? or the followers of Braninism (who believe that Christ HAS already returned and we ARE IN rapture right now??)

My guess is the Annie was talking about what is generally considered by the mainstream organized religion as the Pentecost....but when I first read the story, I got the impression that Jack was raised in an isolated area in a backwoods church among ignorant but well meaning people....

[Artiste]

Thanks, thanks injest and all the others!!

Injest you say this:
My guess is the Annie was talking about what is generally considered by the mainstream organized religion as the Pentecost....but when I first read the story, I got the impression that Jack was raised in an isolated area in a backwoods church among ignorant but well meaning people....
 ...

May I say that I agree with you injest.

Also, may I add that I think that Annie also strikes a hard note like this: that our current religions might seem backwoods, but since gay men are being murdered because they are gay men by such backwarded religions and/or back-to-the-cave torturous men-animals, worst is happening now, and it is worsening as so-called religions as islam is not allowing man to live as if it documented that muslims and other so-called religious terrorists do not allow men to advance as they kill others who are of different religions because only their backward-one I qualify, does and MUST exist ONLY, unfortunately!!


Even if I would like to be Jack again, and have hope and live happily, I still seek ways to LOVE all!! Like Ennis, I fear now for my life because of backwarded so-called religions and other man-animals. I do not think that islam (and such other likewise) is a religion but like the KKK in the USA and Canada, the SS was in Germany, the murderers in Iraq/Iran/Afganistan, and elsewhere and worst!!

Anyway, we must find ways to educate all persons to be HELPFUL!! That is Easter to me!!

Hugs!!