One Man Men

[serious crayons]

I think he and Focus made sure they were in line with each other. I think he gave us no more then he thought he must, concernting the m/m sex, and made sure he added m/f sex enough to perhaps ease more people.  After the reunion we have to really use our imaginations or sump'in, to feel they had sex.

I have sometimes wondered if a fear of turning off straight viewers might have contributed to his downplaying of sex in the second half. But personally, even if it was a factor I don't think it's the main reason. I think anyone who made it through the first half could probably handle a little more in the second half. And IMO his main objective for that restraint was to emphasize the "never enough time" theme. By withholding scenes of physical affection, I think he intended to help the audience feel Jack & Ennis' frustration. If you ask me, it worked a little too well!

[jessiwrite]

I have sometimes wondered if a fear of turning off straight viewers might have contributed to his downplaying of sex in the second half. But personally, even if it was a factor I don't think it's the main reason. I think anyone who made it through the first half could probably handle a little more in the second half. And IMO his main objective for that restraint was to emphasize the "never enough time" theme. By withholding scenes of physical affection, I think he intended to help the audience feel Jack & Ennis' frustration. If you ask me, it worked a little too well!

I never thought of that, or heard it mention.  Something to ponder.  It made little impact on me, I mean making such a difference in the book and movie, the book making sure we knew they had good sex still,  for I surely felt the not enough time in the book as well as the movie, strong enough that it still feels like a kick in the gut.  I feel the not enough time was referring to far more than the sex.  I am glad I have the book to read about their infrequent coupling and how intense it still was.  Their need and love for each other would destroy or give them life.

jessi

[serious crayons]

I think the book and movie take different strategies because they have to tell their tale in different ways. In the book, the narrator can just say outright "the brilliant charge of their infrquent couplings was darkened by the sense of time flying, never enough time, never enough." Or the narrator can mention that the clock in Ennis' pocket was ticking to symbolize passing time. Or whatever. In the movie, there's no narrator, so that information has to be conveyed by dialogue, symbolism or some other way. So the screenplay has Jack say "never enough time" in the lakeside argument. And I think this is another way the filmmakers chose to emphasize it.

[jessiwrite]

I think the book and movie take different strategies because they have to tell their tale in different ways. In the book, the narrator can just say outright "the brilliant charge of their infrquent couplings was darkened by the sense of time flying, never enough time, never enough." Or the narrator can mention that the clock in Ennis' pocket was ticking to symbolize passing time. Or whatever. In the movie, there's no narrator, so that information has to be conveyed by dialogue, symbolism or some other way. So the screenplay has Jack say "never enough time" in the lakeside argument. And I think this is another way the filmmakers chose to emphasize it.

Sadly, the movie may have just sent half the message, the not enough time.  The movie didn't let us know about the brilliant charge still beomng there.  Even a tease with Jack reaching his cold hand between Ennis' thighs or a passionate kiss, a bit of sex in the tent, something to let the viewers know that the spark was there and still importantl.  I am so glad we at least saw them sleeping together, however briefly.

jessi

[serious crayons]

Even a tease with Jack reaching his cold hand between Ennis' thighs or a passionate kiss, a bit of sex in the tent, something to let the viewers know that the spark was there and still importantl.  I am so glad we at least saw them sleeping together, however briefly.

I totally agree! 

[Aussie Chris]

It might be that straight heterosexual men aren't the dominant group; that is, if you live on another planet.  My statement was not ambiguous.

Ouch, ok as you wish.  That would be the end of that conversation then.  But before I go, maybe I do live on another planet, one where no gender or orientation is more dominant except to the extent that the "other" groups let them.  You can oppress me and be intollerant of me, but you can't make me feel inferior unless I let you, and that's not going to happen.  And btw, you're reference to dominant group could just as easily been all straight people (male and female), law makers, politicians, etc.  Women are not the inferior group here, in fact I feel more marginalised every day.

[serious crayons]

in fact I feel more marginalised every day.

 

[serious crayons]

Quote from: Marge_Innavera on September 19, 2006, 12:34:53 pm
It might be that straight heterosexual men aren't the dominant group; that is, if you live on another planet.  My statement was not ambiguous.

  But before I go, maybe I do live on another planet, one where no gender or orientation is more dominant except to the extent that the "other" groups let them.  You can oppress me and be intollerant of me, but you can't make me feel inferior unless I let you, and that's not going to happen.  And btw, you're reference to dominant group could just as easily been all straight people (male and female), law makers, politicians, etc.  Women are not the inferior group here, in fact I feel more marginalised every day.

Chris and Marge, as an outside observer to this exchange, I'm wondering if you might not disagree as much as it seems. Do you mind if I give a shot to sorting it out?

Chris, I could be wrong, but my impression is that Marge is not endorsing the idea that straight men should be the dominant goup, or even that they inevitably must be the dominant group, but merely expressing what she feels to have been historical practice in most cultures. Marge, again I may be wrong, but my impression is that Chris is saying we should not accept that as an immutable reality, and that we have it in our power to change it.

In other words, it seems Marge is referring to an unfortunate current situation, whereas Chris is referring to a happy ideal.

Do you think you'd agree with those assessments -- of both your own position and each others'? Or am I mischaracterizing them?

[JT]

I'm glad you agree JT, where were you when I needed you in March?    This was a funny time, weird that it was just 6 months ago, seriously it feels like years have gone by.  I guess this was inevitable, after all we've really explored just about every nook and cranny of the film and the story, and so much water has passed under the bridge...

Sorry Chris, but in March, I haven't even watched BBM yet.  Yeah, shame on me.  I only discover this site about two months ago.

But back to what you guys discuss back then, all I can say is those of us who had to live lives similar to Jack and Ennis' will understand more deeply their motives and orientations.  Being gay and living in a conservative environment, I understand these two guys pretty well, I think.  Being in my mid 30's now, I still haven't been in a gay relationship, nor a straight one.  I know I don't want a straight one for sure.  Just my thought.

[Aussie Chris]

Sorry Chris, but in March, I haven't even watched BBM yet.  Yeah, shame on me.  I only discover this site about two months ago.

No worries JT, I gathered as much.  I was only playing after all.

But back to what you guys discuss back then, all I can say is those of us who had to live lives similar to Jack and Ennis' will understand more deeply their motives and orientations.  Being gay and living in a conservative environment, I understand these two guys pretty well, I think.  Being in my mid 30's now, I still haven't been in a gay relationship, nor a straight one.  I know I don't want a straight one for sure.  Just my thought.

Aww, sometimes I wish we were all in the same room so I could give people a hug when they say something like that.  You know I don't think it matters if you've had a hundred partners or none at all, as long as you have love in your heart and you're happy with being yourself.  I've not had a relationship for a couple of years and I couldn't give a rat's.  Maybe I'm a romantic fool but I believe that someone special is out there waiting for me to find him, and even if there's not I'm happy being me and that's enough.  I hope that you're happy too JT.