Exactly WHEN does Jack decide.. th 1st tent scene..is gonna be th 1s tent scene?

[twistedude]

And I'd like to apologize for the offer of the sale of the Brooklyn Bridge, and the several sandwhiches short of a picnic. Got carried away...

We all love the movie, and, however it happened, we're glad it did.

[DeeDee]

Well its a matter of opinion and I (as should others) respect your opinion.....

Thanks, and vise versa. Well then, here is another big mystery on which we were unable to form a concensus.

Back to "sorry, s'alright," anyone?

If you watcht the subtitles, you see it says "I'm sorry" and then Jacks'  "its alliright" twice.
But I played it 100 times and you never see Ennis' mouth move.  But you do hear something...anyone else hear it?

[twistedude]

Absolutely...so it has to be the (more complicated) arrangement of Jack saying both
"I'm sorry" AND "it's all right."

I'm afraid if we follow this..we may get into the same tangle we were in before...excatly the same tangle...

[cmr107]

Whatever words are being said (I'm in the three "s'alright"s camp myself), I'm as sure as I can be that Jack is the only one talking, with Ennis remaining silent. You don't see Ennis' mouth move, and each time you hear speaking it sounds like exactly the same voice, pitch and everything. And we clearly see that it is Jack speaking by the third word, so this would lead to the conclusion that it is Jack speaking each time. Just my opinion, of course.

[opinionista]

I guess we're pretty much agreed that Jack has been cruising Ennis, since, maybe the first time he laid eyes on him. He takes one look at Ennis, and drapes his body beautifully over the side of the truck...but there is no reaction. Calls for a change in plans, or a plan, or a postponement of a plan--or what? Exactly when does Jack decide...to move?


1) ignorant talk about the Petecost leads to Ennis saying "You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." Is it then?

2) Seems pretty matter-of-fact when he brings Ennis a blanket and says "You'd be better off sleeping in the tent."

3) Ditto, when he's lying alone in the tent with his eyes open, listening to Ennis's teeth chattering and his occasional exclamations. Almost "Can I get back to sleep...jeez, Ennis is freezing his butt off"

4) My choice: after Ennis is inside, and asleep (most likely), he moves a lot closer to him (after full moon shot, shot of white floor of tent--where Jack used to be lying.

The rest is history...or do you think it was all a master plan that started much earler? (Like, for instance, when Jack says they should both be in the camp? Or some other time?)

Hope I don't sound callous. It's pretty obvious: if you are someone with some (no matter how little) sexual experience, and you want someone who has--literally--NONE, you have to seduce him somehow...

Jack was attracted to Ennis the first time he saw him: when they're at the trailer waiting for Aguirre to show up. But I don't think he actually planned to make a move. I don't even think it crossed his mind, no matter how he felt about Ennis. In fact, nothing they did during the Brokeback days was planned. When Ennis gets into the tent, Jack goes back to sleep. He wakes up after a while probably feeling aroused and seizes the moment. It worked because Ennis was half drunk and probably aroused too. But if he had tried to make a move by kissing Ennis or something, while eating, herding the sheeps or at any other moment, I don't think it would've worked. Ennis was too much of an homophobic for that.

[DeeDee]

I know what you're saying, but I think the minute Ennis entered the tent, Jack made his plans..watch him slightly pick his head up toward Ennis.
I do however, believe, that it was spontaneous.  I think he really wanted him to be warm in the tent, when he first invited him in.

[Brown Eyes]

I heard the "sorry" really clearly every time I saw BBM in the theater.  It actually never crossed my mind to question it until I ventured into conversations on imdb long ago.  I also always heard it as Ennis's line.

But, the kooky thing is that I don't hear it on my DVD (even though it's there on the subtitles).  I know some people have been complaining about their DVDs being too dark.  Well, mine doesn't seem too dark... the sound seems a bit muffled (and I have a nice TV).  It seems muffled in a number of places... so I've given up on dealing with the "sorry" dilemma for now.  Though, I do still think it's Ennis.
 

[twistedude]

I should have said i hear three SPEECHES; I 'm not entirely sure that the first is "I'm sorry," but either I've been conditioned to think so, or I really think so. They are all said by Jack, agreed. I think I hear ":I'm sorry," but I'll wait for my final DVD (I've tried 6...)

Should this thread get a new title, so we don't get more hashing of the "when did, etc." thing? Or should the hashing go on?

[Front-Ranger]

I choose Number One: when Ennis says, "You may be a sinner..."

It's then that Jack gives Ennis the whiskey bottle and he stops drinking, in order to keep his wits about him!

[Brown Eyes]

It's then that Jack gives Ennis the whiskey bottle and he stops drinking, in order to keep his wits about him!

Ooooooooooooooo!!! Nice subtle detail.  I'd never much contemplated how deliberate this gesture of handing the bottle over at that moment!  Very interesting observation Bud!