Author Topic: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???  (Read 19810 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2006, 11:31:40 am »
Thanks, Chris. I hope you do pose some more of these intriguing questions. I love these discussions.

A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

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Re: The archetypal dimension to BBM
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2006, 01:46:25 pm »
Thanks, Chris. I hope you do pose some more of these intriguing questions. I love these discussions.

A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???
Some folks on TOB on IMDb insist that when we cry over BBM, we are really crying over ourselves, our regrets, disappointments, and fears regarding our own lives. While I recognize some truth in this, this doesn't explain the extent and duration of the strange grieving I have been experiencing for over two months now over this story.

I think the heartbreak at the core of the story is existential and archetypal in quality. Pain and sorrow are inherent in merely existing (at least existing in this one dimension of reality), and the story highlights this fact in such a poignant and real way. Ennis becomes an avatar of Loneliness, a universal exemplar of a universal human emotion--he will forever be ensconced in his story, alone, in love, and bereft of his heart's desire. No amount of working through our own processes, trying to get on with our lives, will ever change this. To paraphrase Joseph Conrad, there is an intransigent 'heart of darkness' at the center of this beautiful, troubling tale, that is tied inextricably to the human condition. Ennis transcends fiction when we are confronted by this, for we all become Ennis, insofar as we are moved and transformed by his story, and must bear the burden of learning how to comfort the loneliness and pain in our own hearts. We cannot escape our painful humanity, at least while we still draw breath, but we can try to mitigate this with joy and love. Indeed, the movie's implications challenge us to do so, and in offering this gift, it stands as perhaps the most important film yet made.

Scott
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:01:18 pm by moremojo »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2006, 01:54:47 pm »
Beautiful post, Scott!

Offline twistedude

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2006, 12:26:46 am »
Whoever said "Mexico was hot, I mean.." could have simply stopped with Mexcico was hot. Even Ennis had heard what they had in Mexico for boys like you...I like the way JaCk doesn't back down, or get insulted: "You have no idea how bad it gets!" "I'm not youl I can';t make it on a couple of high altitude fucks once ior twice a year."  "..and then you say you'll kill me for needin' something I almost never get"--you tell him, Jack.

Someone said Jack mentioned being partneRs twice..he mentions it almost every time he sees Ennis! First after the reunion, after the diVorce, the previous time they were together, when he suggests Ennis move to Texas, only to be greeted by saRCASM, AND i THINK WE GET THE IDEA THAT THE SUGGESTION HAS not BEEN LIMITED TO THE TIMES WE'VE HEARD IT.

Sometimes I get so mad at Ennis, you'd think I'd married him...
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2006, 04:55:02 am »
Forgive me if this has already been said in the thread, I don't seem to be alert enough to read through it all now.

Chris, I asked this question once.  Because Ennis's comeback about Mexico seems like such a non sequitur.  And the answer I got that rang right to me (but I forgot which of our wise pals said it) was that when Jack says, "I did once," Ennis feels so guilty that he turns the negative focus on Jack by bringing up trips to Mexico, to take the shame/guilt spotlight off himself.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2006, 06:45:56 am »
Chris, I asked this question once.  Because Ennis's comeback about Mexico seems like such a non sequitur.  And the answer I got that rang right to me (but I forgot which of our wise pals said it) was that when Jack says, "I did once," Ennis feels so guilty that he turns the negative focus on Jack by bringing up trips to Mexico, to take the shame/guilt spotlight off himself.

You're forgiven Clarissa.  It took a lot of work, but our wise pals eventually managed to explain this in a way that I could understand.  As you said: non sequitur (which I had to look up by the way).  But that's the point - it doesn't follow that Mexico comes after "I once did..." becuase it's just Ennis' guilty/angry reaction to Jack's challenge.
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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: The archetypal dimension to BBM
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2006, 07:27:47 am »
I think the heartbreak at the core of the story is existential and archetypal in quality. Pain and sorrow are inherent in merely existing (at least existing in this one dimension of reality), and the story highlights this fact in such a poignant and real way. Ennis becomes an avatar of Loneliness, a universal exemplar of a universal human emotion--he will forever be ensconced in his story, alone, in love, and bereft of his heart's desire. No amount of working through our own processes, trying to get on with our lives, will ever change this. To paraphrase Joseph Conrad, there is an intransigent 'heart of darkness' at the center of this beautiful, troubling tale, that is tied inextricably to the human condition. Ennis transcends fiction when we are confronted by this, for we all become Ennis, insofar as we are moved and transformed by his story, and must bear the burden of learning how to comfort the loneliness and pain in our own hearts. We cannot escape our painful humanity, at least while we still draw breath, but we can try to mitigate this with joy and love. Indeed, the movie's implications challenge us to do so, and in offering this gift, it stands as perhaps the most important film yet made.

Wow Scott, that was truly amazing and powerful.  I had to refer to my dictionary no less than three times, but now that I'm up to speed I can safely say I think your spot on.  Very cool!

Quote
A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

What's with you Katherine?  Well I have a theory: I actually think that Brokies the world over, and particularly those of us that spend time sharing and supporting each other, have been fundamentally changed in ways that are both unexpected and (still) underestimated.  I've noticed that many of us seem moved on a daily basis, sad sometimes, but often just feeling their emotions more deeply and completely than ever before.  I am convinced that this in not a mere obsession for a film, adoration for the actors, or even empathy for the characters in the story - all of these are in and of themselves quite true but they cannot explain the commonality (and longevity) of the effects and the processes at work.  I put it to you and everyone else here that what we are experiencing is evolutionary, not revolutionary, and we will never be the same as we were before.  Hallelujah, amen, and blessed be!
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

EnnisDelMar

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2006, 01:26:54 pm »
This has already been said I'm sure, but I'm too impatient to read all the other posts..

I think the "I did once" refers to when he asked Ennis "What if you and me had a little ranch somewhere, little cow and calf operation..."

« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 01:35:01 pm by EnnisDelMar »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2006, 09:28:44 pm »
Remaining OT for the moment...

Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

I'm shocked and amazed by this bit of information about how long it's been since you've seen the movie!  :o   I've been assuming that you've been re-watching the movie scene by scene like lots of us.  Well, beware!  The DVD only heightens BBM fever to a crazy level.  Someone on a thread here at BetterMost once said it took them 4 hours to watch the movie the first time on DVD... and it's so true.  One of these days I will watch the movie straight-through again (without re-watching certain scenes over and over again or without just turning the movie off halfway through).  It's amazingly hard to do though with a remote in your hand.

Lately I've found watching the 2nd half of the film particularly difficult.  The devastation truly stays the same or gets worse.  I have never experienced this with a movie before.  Under any normal circumstance all of this over-analyzing would have made the movie seem old or lose it's impact on a pure emotional level.  This is certainly not so with BBM.  And I agree with julie01, Ennis is just super frustrating to me lately (I still love him too of course).

Also... Thanks for the nice comment Aussie Chris.
 :D
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Offline EnnisLovesJack

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Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2006, 10:07:38 pm »
Ok, I have a question that occured to me on my first viewing that I only remembered today.  I've been trying to catch up on historical Tremblay posts, and today I came across the topic: "An interesting thread from the main IMDB board...".  This *was* an interesting read, and in it there was a reference to the scene where Jack says "I did once".

Huh?  Am I missing something?  How is this a "better idea"?  Have you Tremblayans discussed this before?  Sorry if you have and I've not come across it yet.
Heya Chris,

That's funny. I had the exact same question the first couple times I saw the movie! I even started a thread about it, on IMDB BBM board. Maybe that's the one that you saw refrenced on the Trembaly board....?

Some great people chimed in and answered the question for me, very satisfyingly. You probably have all the answers you need by now, thanks to all our brilliant brokie friends here. Miraculously, my "I did once" thread is still up on the IMDB board. Here's the link. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/35219370?d=38434936#38434936

Well, guess I'll see you around, Chris. (Cue you climbing into your truck and drivin' off, and me getting smaller and smaller in your rearview mirror. ;))

Keren/ELJ
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