Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?

[Scott6373]

Did Ennis discovered this too late?

I'm not sure Ennis really knew that he had any control.  He was never one to admit to himself whatever abilities he may have had.  It was probably one of those things, where in his heart he knew what he was doing, but could not stop himself from behaving that way.

[chelseagirl]

I'm not sure Ennis really knew that he had any control.  He was never one to admit to himself whatever abilities he may have had.  It was probably one of those things, where in his heart he knew what he was doing, but could not stop himself from behaving that way.

Yeah Scott,

I agree with you,  but I always thought that experience when he was nine, stunted somehow him emotionally.   Quiet, loner, when he met Jack, he started to have feelings he didn't understand or want.   

He loved Jack, he hated that he did.  Does this make sense? 

[Front-Ranger]

Yes, it makes sense to me, chelsea girl!

Another thing, it's interesting that both Jack and Ennis had traumatic experiences as children, both at the hands of their fathers. But Jack reacted differently than Ennis. Jack didn't seem to have been so scarred as Ennis at the brutal beating and humiliating experience of being pissed on. It would be difficult to try to determine which experience was the more traumatic. I think the reason they reacted so differently was because of their different natures.

[Artiste]

Just reading a bit of you two last comments, may I say that both (Jack and Ennis) hated in a way being in love with each other!!

Does that make sense?? To which degree, was this disliking of loving each other??

Because gay life is a danger to gay men, because of straights who want to kill homosexuals!! I suggest, even to-day!! And it is getting worst!!

Hugs, hugs!!

[chelseagirl]

Jack was far more at ease with who is was than Ennis.  IMO, 

That fact alone was a deep bone of contention between the both of them.   Ennis fought it to a point where he couldn't and had to be with Jack.   

So to me,  Ennis insistence to some degree of control of the relationship was through his eyes a way of protection, but because of exactly that was slowly eating at the both of them. 

It wasn't the outside world, but Ennis fears that blocked the road to peace for the both of them.   

[Artiste]

It was also the OUTSIDE world that worried BOTH Ennis and Jack!!

Look at the fights!! ?? The outside world fought each!!

Look at the fear in both!! ?? They each feared the outside world!! The outside world murdered one, (see the killers of Jack)!! Ennis was to be killed too?? Seems so!!

The world of straights men killing gays because they are gays was, is and will be here!! And it is getting worst!! I fear straights!! Muslim MD killed my buddy because he was gay... since muslim do not accept any gays!! That is only one example!! Plus, our democratic countries are NOT that free for gays neither!!

I pray that as a gay man, I may have such freedom!!

Hugs!!

[chelseagirl]

Artieste,

Believe please, by heart goes out to you and your friend,  I know how it is out there.

I'm only talking of this story,  I am only looking at all aspects of it.   There is so much here.  To discuss, to wonder about.  And to ask questions.   

The outside is there, no question about that.  But the relationship of these two men, their love, their approaches to that love is so full of many roads to explore. 

Like you yourself pointed out Jack's death, Could it have been Ennis's deep seeded fear that may him believe that Jack's death was murder, and not just a tragic accident?   

This story is full, so rich with questions, and many different answers. 

[Artiste]

Thanks chelseagirl !

Jack death was murder! The evidence is there!!

The murdering of gay men then, and now is fact!!

As a gay man as I am with experiences, the movie and now is the same thing!!

The movie shows how murdering a gay man, is common!! Right??

Hugs!!

[chelseagirl]

Artiste: 

Your views of this story I deeply respect, a movie will never explain the reasons or the whys of crimes such as this. 
 
The fear and the danger of this kind of relationship goes straight to what you are talking about.  With all due respect,  it goes deeper.   How this fear can affect someone, and how they deal with their own sexuality.   The charactors in this story are too complex,  and how they viewed themselves, each other over the years  

What made Ennis who he  is?  What made Jack who is was.    Their wives, Jack's mother, Alma, jr.    How it was that they sustain a love isolated on Brokeback for twenty years, and the joys, pains, love, need factored into who they were.   Was there a really a battle for control of the relationship between the two men?    Did Ennis in the end accepted himself, and the love he had? 

This movie shows much more than just a death, but life and how and it was dealt with.  How and whys of  love, and who we love, that force of nature is written all over this film.   Because bottomline  these two men were  caught in something they didn't expect and couldn't control.   They were in love. 

 

[Artiste]

Thanks chelseagirl!

Your views are very interesting!!

Ennis and Jack could NOT love fully, it seems evident because of fear of being in a straight society!!

Also, they could NOT love, because that straight society does NOT ALLOW them to love!! As this would and is a constant battle... if a man loves another man, straight, bi and/or gay!! Then, and to-day... as will be so!!

I have met more and more gay men who were married and stayed with their wives for over 20 to 50 years, especially until their kids are grown up, in the USA and in Canada!! One, last Fall, told me that he waited for that too (he is in a more liberal Quebec society, which is the most advanced in North America for gays and the first to want gay life and even marriage), but that is changing rapidly as more muslims and so-called such (ilsam and other) religions are taking over and who will kill  educated no-veiled woman and gay men!!

I think that Annie suggests this too, that society will be more violent towards gay men as it changes to so-called religions! I qualify such religions so-called as they are criminals under the religious banner, and are too much in Europe now, plus are taking over Canada and the USA, unfortunately!!

Yes, Ennis and Jack are caught in fear and in an ignorant society!! Does not the general society know that Ennis and Jack are decent humans?? But the general population will NOT care less, nor not for their children because we all fear and because we do not know how to combat this anti-human terror!!

Much can be said...
and your views are welcomed.

Hugs!!