Author Topic: Education and class in BBM  (Read 5014 times)

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,711
Re: Education and class in BBM
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 10:23:55 pm »
Right! But my point is, how many movies DON'T fit that mold? The only one I can think of is BBM. I don't have an encyclopedic brain, so I'm sure there are other exceptions, and I'd love to hear about them (I'm guessing they would be a few decades old, but I could be wrong about that, too). What impresses me about Brokeback us that it deviates from a format that has become not just a cliche but practically a requirement in this society.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,165
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Education and class in BBM
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 10:39:59 pm »
Oh, absolutely! I was just pointing out how old that theme of "poor person makes good" is in American popular entertainment. If anything I hope that reinforces your observation as to how different Brokeback is for departing from that scenario.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Education and class in BBM
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 10:43:00 pm »
I agree that it's nice that neither of these issues becomes the central focus of the film.  And, it is interesting that Ennis becomes a true hero by the end for reasons far removed from money and class status.   The fact that he's living in clear poverty in an under-furnished trailer is overshadowed by the incredible emotional aspects of his character.

I'm glad you noted that detail about Ennis's lips moving while he reads Jack's postcard.  I think that's one of those amazing and subtle details that just make the film shine.  Not only do we not really "pity" him or feel sorry for him, this is a moment when I feel happy and relieved for him... I'm more focused on how bright and happy his face looks usually at this moment.

As the differences in economic status between Jack and Ennis grow wider I do think class becomes just another issue and tension in their relationship.  I feel like the details of clothing and certain moments of dialogue between them (the talk about Lureen and her "adding machine") show a growing rift in an understanding of certain circumstances.  Maybe by the end Ennis really does feel like Jack had forgotten how it feels to be "broke all the time."  This is probably a worry that nags at Ennis and it bubbles out here.  I think Ennis's trip to Lightning Flat changes this for him... given the extreme poverty of Jack's parents he comes to learn that Jack could probably never forget what true poverty is all about.

This makes me wonder how successful they would have been financially, etc. if they had set up a cow and calf operation (presumably on Jack's parents' ranch).  Would living with Jack have helped pull Ennis out of poverty a little bit?  Without the Newsome money, how successful would Jack be as a self-sufficient ranch cowboy (well, self-sufficient with Ennis)?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 10:46:17 pm by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,711
Re: Education and class in BBM
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 11:12:21 pm »
Oh, absolutely! I was just pointing out how old that theme of "poor person makes good" is in American popular entertainment. If anything I hope that reinforces your observation as to how different Brokeback is for departing from that scenario.

Oh, OK! Thanks. I was too quick to launch into argument mode (my default).

Amanda, I agree with all of what you said (can't I just program a computer key somewhere to type that in one stroke, like a speed dial?) Your point about financial differences subtly, and almost unspokenly, adding to the tensions between them rift makes sense.

As for whether they'd have been successful at their cow-and-calf operation, I'm not sure. Nice at it is that Jack is a dreamer, it's probably not only Ennis' fault that his dreams don't always work out. For example, I'm not as confident as he was that L.D. Newsome would have forked over the money. (Course I wish they'd have tried, though.)

It's sad to recall that in that early beer-drinking scene, Jack tells Ennis he's saving up for his own ranch, and Ennis replies that he's saving for a place himself. Neither of their lives went the way they'd hoped.


Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Education and class in BBM
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 11:33:05 pm »
Good points about their changing financial status becoming a source of stress later on. (I wonder if even things like sleeping in Jack's fancy dome tent bothered Ennis, at some level?)

This makes me wonder how successful they would have been financially, etc. if they had set up a cow and calf operation (presumably on Jack's parents' ranch).  Would living with Jack have helped pull Ennis out of poverty a little bit?  Without the Newsome money, how successful would Jack be as a self-sufficient ranch cowboy (well, self-sufficient with Ennis)?
I think it would depend on whether Jack's father was really willing to let Jack and Ennis set up a cabin on his property and eventually inherit the place... though even then, it might have been hard to keep the ranch going. Otherwise, Jack and Ennis would have needed to buy some property (and take out a mortgage), buy livestock, buy feed... Somehow I don't think that LD Newsome really would have paid Jack to leave Lureen. Jack's a sweetheart, but I don't think he was being realistic there. (And what were interest rates like in the late 60's/early 70's? By the late 70's they were incredibly high. That would have been a rough time to be trying to start a new business like a ranch.)

They would have had a lot going against them, even if Wyoming had somehow magically transformed itself into a gay-rights paradise. High school dropouts didn't have many prospects in the 70's, and it's only gotten worse since then. And ranches and farms have been folding and being sold for development, or consolidating into industrial farming businesses. (I currently live in an area where ranches are disappearing, and I grew up in a different rural area. Imagine a community that welcomes Wal-Mart because they consider it a source of good jobs. Yes, they are that desperate. And, ugh, I would hate to imagine Jack and Ennis as 60-something Wal-Mart greeters, though if they got to go home to each other at night maybe it would be worth it.)
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.