BM movie is anti-gay??

[souxi]

Can I come and live in Gaga land with you Souxi?  ..... Can Hugh and Jake come too?   

It doesn't seem like too much to ask does it, simply letting people live their lives in peace?  ... maybe some day ....

Susie  

Can Hugh and Jake come too?? Of course they can!! Need you even ask??? btw, Hugh is mineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. All mineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. muahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. 

[Artiste]

Oh! Oh!

Ennis and Jack living in Vermont!

I did do my art exhibition there and found indeed persons there with an let live way which was interesting!

So you saying that the BM movie is anti-gay souzi? Somehow?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

May you have a great day! White snow covering roads, houses, trees, etc., here now! So dress warm your way too?

I must ask straight men especially about such protection!! ?? And ask ladies too!! ?? Maybe a woman then (and now) too used something (other than a condom)?? So it could be that a condom was just used by Alma to get rid of her husband? Alma had an eye on someone else?

This is one reason among others, that make the BM movie anti-gay in some ways! Alama would NOT have been jealous of Jack!!... may I say!!

What do you, and all, think?

Hugs!

Thank you for your good wishes Artiste! You have no fear that I will catch cold, I am in Ft. Worth TX, and it is 79 Degrees today - I have been walking in a local park in my walking shorts. However,I am a bit jealous of your snow, I always miss it around Christmas.
To respond to your point about condoms, I believe Alma wished Ennis to use "protection" in order to avoid conceiving another child. The Del mar family was apparently struggling to make ends meet with both Ennis's wages as a ranch hand, and with Almas wages at the grocery store. They simply couldn't afford to have another baby.
That is not Anti-Gay, it is simply good sense, of which Ennis had very little. 

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

Can we see pic with your shorts on (and/or off, ha! ha!)?

Concerning your comments that you think that Ennis has not much sense, you do not know that I think the opposite?

Since Ennis does not want to use a condom in the movie, maybe that BM film is therefore anti-gay in that sense? At least a bit? Many straight as well as gay men do never use such for protection? !! However, this movie shows Ennis in the back of his wife? !! Why?? (Is this an anti-gay thing by the movie makers?)

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Alma is one of my least favorite characters in the movie.  And the main reason that I don't like her is I feel that she doesn't stand up for herself enough.  Ennis treats her terribly in bed.  We see this early on when he flips her over and she hates it.  I think this is one of the worst scenes regarding Ennis.  I think it's completely wrong to treat your partner that way... to make her have sex in a way that she hates.

So, I wish Alma stood up for herself even back then.  And, the one moment when I do respect her is when she refuses to have sex with Ennis at the end of their marriage.  It's hard for me to understand why she continued to stay in the marriage as long as she did after she learned that Ennis was having an affair... I really don't sympathize much with her decision to stay.  And, I don't think dragging the marriage on was really doing Ennis any favors either.

I do also think Alma is homophobic... which comes out in the Jack Nasty comment.  Her feelings of betrayal at Ennis having any affair are wrapped up in, what I feel, are some latent homophobic feelings for Alma.  I think Alma's criticism of Jack with the "Nasty" comment is what really sends Ennis over the edge in the kitchen scene... for lots of reasons.

Hey Bud, I really enjoyed your post and agree with a lot of it.

I agree with some of what you said above. But,I'm not sure that I can see Alma in an unfavorable light. She really didn't have a lot of options. Yes, divorce was legal in 1960's Wyoming, but she had to think about her children growing up in a conservative ranching town without a father. Back then there was still a huge stigma attached to divorced women. This stigma spilled over onto the children. Also, Alma was still in love with Ennis. Ennis was the love of her life. Yes, I hate the way he treated her -especially "flipping her over" to have sex in the way "he liked". I 'm not sure that went to the level of "assualt" or "rape", had he been deliberately overpowering her with his strength, I would call it assault. But, it was hard for someone as shy and sweet as Alma to stand up to Ennis. She made her compromises and tried to live with it. I give her high marks for really trying to live with an difficult situation.
 I'm not sure that I agree with your comment that Alma's "Jack Nasty" comment was homophobic. I think her comment just reflected her bitterness at the breakup of her marriage, but also I see her trying to re-connect after a fashion with Ennis. In a way I think that she was trying to have the honest conversation with Ennis about his feelings for Jack that she should have had back in 1967 when she first saw Ennis and Jack kissing.  I think that Ennis was sent over the edge because Alma was uncovering the truth about Ennis. For a deeply closeted homophobic man in deep denial such as Ennis, the only reaction that he could conceive of was assault. This wasn't Alma's fault that Ennis reacted the way he did.  

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

Can we see pic with your shorts on (and/or off, ha! ha!)?

Concerning your comments that you think that Ennis has not much sense, you do not know that I think the opposite?

Since Ennis does not want to use a condom in the movie, maybe that BM film is therefore anti-gay in that sense? At least a bit? Many straight as well as gay men do never use such for protection? !! However, this movie shows Ennis in the back of his wife? !! Why?? (Is this an anti-gay thing by the movie makers?)

Hugs!

Sorry Artiste, D.L. will not allow me to post pictures of me in my shorts, on or off. To answer your question about condom usage in heterosexuals, lets take a journey back in time to the 1970's. I don't know how old you are Artiste, but I grew up in the 1960 / 70's. I remember that the overwhelming majority of condom users before the early 1980's were heterosexual men, who mostly used them with their wives and steady girl friends in order to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
Now to the "backdoor" position Ennis takes with Alma. My opinion about that is that Ennis uses it because it reminds him of what he did with Jack. That is just my opinion.
Alma did not like the position, but I think that she was trying to please Ennis, so went along with it. And, perhaps it also would be a form of "birth control". I really think that you are reaching to see anything anti-gay in these scenes.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

I grew up too in the sixties! And condoms became popular, I think more and more for straights as well as for gays!

However, I heard rarely of the backdoor positions by a straight man with his wife or girfriend. Maybe there were some who did it often in order to avoid pregnantcy??!! A woman likes that position? Seems that Alma did not, in the BM movie! But she uses it as an excuse to get rid of her husband! No sex means separation between two individuals, certainly in marriage as cancelation of it!

Somehow, I see this as an anti-gay action in this affaire beteen Ennis and Alma, somehow!! ?? This film portraits a bit too much Ennis as a bad person? And this action as one among others makes it maybe anti-gay?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

I grew up too in the sixties! And condoms became popular, I think more and more for straights as well as for gays!

However, I heard rarely of the backdoor positions by a straight man with his wife or girfriend. Maybe there were some who did it often in order to avoid pregnantcy??!! A woman likes that position? Seems that Alma did not, in the BM movie! But she uses it as an excuse to get rid of her husband! No sex means separation between two individuals, certainly in marriage as cancelation of it!

Somehow, I see this as an anti-gay action in this affaire beteen Ennis and Alma, somehow!! ?? This film portraits a bit too much Ennis as a bad person? And this action as one among others makes it maybe anti-gay?

Hugs!

Hi Artiste! Hope you had a wonderful day! I'm not sure I agree with you that Alma uses her dislike of the sexual position that Ennis preferred as an excuse to "get rid of her husband". Alma simply didn't want to get pregnant again, and she also didn't like Ennis's backdoor positioning. That is her option, that is her choice. Ennis could have been more sensitive to her feelings, but he was a jerk so he didn't. To me sexual abstinence or a pause in realtions does not imply the separation of individuals or the cancellation of a marriage. Artiste, I most definitely value your opinion and don't mean to insult you, but I have to say that the attitude that withholding sexual favors is the equivalent of a marriage cancellation seems downright medieval. I'm a really old fashioned kind of guy about many things, but I sure don't look upon sexual relations with someone I love as a "contractual" relationship with sex deliverable on demand.
The portrait of Ennis as a JERK, is not anti-Gay. Ennis for 95% of the movie is simply a wounded closed off person. I've known several Gay and Bisexual men who were to degrees closed off. To a large degree the first love of my life Chris was not only closeted but also closed off. I loved him anyway.

Later on.......

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex.

I like very much your reply. I am an older gay man in my sixties now! I am from a very different time to many, like in the BM movie, as I had my adolescent years in the sixties and never heard of drugs, but of some booze, and tried to smoke so I could talk to someone like even to guys my age and to ask one to dance (with a girl then of course) at parties we did locally with only ones we went to school with!

However, you and I think differently to many to-day and yesterday, and in the future!!! Like gay guys can dance together now, at certain places!! And like certain gay guys can even have sex legally now in their homes, but not everywhere in the world can this happen yet!

Like you, I did like and/or love another man/other men, even when we had no sex anymore or not ever did!! That is maybe being different to others, who do not accept that concept of living?? !! So, I understand Ennis and Jack very much!! As they could not have sex, nor meet, most of the time!!

I often wonder why Jack goes to see others besides Ennis, for sex!! Presently, I think that Jack was more liberated towards sex and acted fast for it, even in straight bars and gay Mexico, and that Ennis became more slowly to liberate himself towards it, and never find another gay man (why?!

Yes, maybe I see that backdoor event by Ennis with his wife, as anti-gay act??

It still does bug me as to why Jack went to have sex accross the border?? !! Is that an anti-gay thing? In a way, the BM film present this as an anti-gay event? It is so if he acts like a straight, I say! And his act here is like a straight? Maybe, I am becoming to think like Annie now with that recent phrases she uses?

More later... as we all think on such acts.

Awaiting your news,

hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex.

I like very much your reply. I am an older gay man in my sixties now! I am from a very different time to many, like in the BM movie, as I had my adolescent years in the sixties and never heard of drugs, but of some booze, and tried to smoke so I could talk to someone like even to guys my age and to ask one to dance (with a girl then of course) at parties we did locally with only ones we went to school with!

However, you and I think differently to many to-day and yesterday, and in the future!!! Like gay guys can dance together now, at certain places!! And like certain gay guys can even have sex legally now in their homes, but not everywhere in the world can this happen yet!

Like you, I did like and/or love another man/other men, even when we had no sex anymore or not ever did!! That is maybe being different to others, who do not accept that concept of living?? !! So, I understand Ennis and Jack very much!! As they could not have sex, nor meet, most of the time!!

I often wonder why Jack goes to see others besides Ennis, for sex!! Presently, I think that Jack was more liberated towards sex and acted fast for it, even in straight bars and gay Mexico, and that Ennis became more slowly to liberate himself towards it, and never find another gay man (why?!

Yes, maybe I see that backdoor event by Ennis with his wife, as anti-gay act??

It still does bug me as to why Jack went to have sex accross the border?? !! Is that an anti-gay thing? In a way, the BM film present this as an anti-gay event? It is so if he acts like a straight, I say! And his act here is like a straight? Maybe, I am becoming to think like Annie now with that recent phrases she uses?

More later... as we all think on such acts.

Awaiting your news,

hugs!

Well, Artiste...now I am beginning to understand you better! I am about 10 years younger than you, and grew up in the late 60's and 70's, but I grew up in a small rural town that was dominated by the industries of the old Texas economy : Cattle, Cotton and Oil. This type of community was very conservative and really compared to childhoods lived in the big city of that same period,it was more like growing up in the late 50's / early 60's! We also didn't have the drug, violence, crime and tension related problems that began to plague later generations. So, I relate to what you have been saying Artiste! But, I'm still not accepting the argument that you make that the movie is anti-Gay!

As an artist you know that just because a work of art does not present a perfectly rosy picture of a subject, that does not mean that the work of art is intended to be  against, contrary to, or hostile to the subject. Sometimes in order to understand something we must show all of the warts. Brokeback does this. It shows the life of rural closeted bisexual men in a truthful manner. It emphasizes some aspects of their lives and limits other aspects of their lives for a truthful artistic purpose.

Artiste,don't you know how lucky you and I are to have lived this long and to finally at long last see lives portrayed on the silver screen which are similar to those we have actually known?

This is the central beauty of Brokeback, it offered this story to a mass audience for the first time.

Hugs to you to buddy!