Lawsuit over Brokeback Mountain in class

[ednbarby]

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this (I'm guessing not), but I think the thing the girl was "traumatized" by was the homosexuality.  That whole "against our faith" thing regarding the "literature" they were having the kids read (What was it?  Some Graham Greene stuff?  )  is a dead giveaway.

While I agree that a teacher is ill-advised to show any R-rated film to a class of 12-year-olds, I can't help but think that this girl and her family need to get a frigging clue.  I'm sorry, but really.

I think Daniel makes a very valid point re: Schindler's List.  My husband was a Catholic altar boy who, at the age of 10 or 11, was shown graphic documentary footage of the treatment of Jews in concentration camps in his fifth grade classroom.  It fucked him up big-time.  Was the teacher wrong to show it?  That's a tough one.  On the one hand, it did indeed traumatize him enough that he basically became an atheist on the spot.  On the other hand, he still thanks that teacher for showing him the light (or maybe a better term is the darkness).

It'd be one thing if this girl was traumatized by Jack's murder or by the heterosexual sex scenes which are actually quite a bit more explicit, as we all know, than the homosexual ones.  But clearly that's not the issue.

God, I hate what Bush has done to this country.  So to speak.  I also can't help but think that this kind of crap would not fly at all if we had a social liberal in the White House.  Nor should it.  Ever.

[Kerry]

A teacher should not be showing  ANY   R rated move to a 12 year old student.

I agree. If Brokeback Mountain can effect an adult's life to the point where it's changed forever (MINE!), imagine what it can do to a child's. I have never before seen a film that has made such an enormous impression on me. I love Brokeback Mountain, which is why I'm here at BetterMost. But I personally don't believe it should be shown to children. Apart from the nudity, swearing and sex scenes, there are other aspects of Brokeback Mountain that are probably not appropriate for children to see; for example, the portrayal of the trauma created by divorce (I wonder why this child is living with her grandparents?). I also believe the depiction of adults incessantly smoking does not set a good example for children. These people may be genuine in their claim or they could, alternatively, be simply trying to opportunistically cash-in on this teacher's mistake. Because that's what I believe it was, a mistake on the part of the teacher. If the teacher was wanting to explain the gay lifestyle to her class (there may have been a child in the class with two mummies, who was maybe being bullied by the other children?), there are certainly more appropriate ways to do so. Here in Australia, for example, there are a series of lovely children's books that explain this issue in children's terms.

[ednbarby]

I don't know of any such series of books in this country, Kerry, unfortunately.  As Daniel said, for a land "of the free," we sure are also free to be just as hateful as we want.

But I agree - it was inappropriate for that teacher to show Brokeback to 12-year-olds.  It's an R-rated movie, plain and simple.

The raciest thing I was ever shown in school at about that age was Franco Zefferelli's "Romeo and Juliet."  And I still thank that teacher every day of my life for starting my love affair with Shakespeare.  Robert Warren was his name - a Vietnam vet who lost a leg over there, sort of ironically enough.  I was in the 8th grade.  And I was utterly captivated.  I don't know what the rating was at that time or if there even was a ratings system in place.  While there was certainly no nudity, there were adult themes galore:  unconditional physical love; family ties that make us feel behooved to be somebody we're not; societal intolerance; suicide.  I see Brokeback as a version of that story.

I'm sure that teacher had the best of intentions.  She wanted to show the class a modern-day "Romeo and Juliet" and she probably also wanted to teach them a little something about acceptance and love.  But knowing it was R-rated already put her in muddy waters.  I feel for her, but ultimately I think she was wrong.  I also think it's wrong to sue over something like this.  The school board apparently did not know she was showing the film (given the closed door bit).  The grandparents must be aware of this.  And yet they sue anyway.  They are just trying to make a point, a la Beth Farmer in "Donnie Darko," and like hers, their point is "We don't like to be exposed to anything different from what we believe."  I'm sorry, again, but get the hell over it.

[injest]

I don't know of any such series of books in this country, Kerry, unfortunately.  As Daniel said, for a land "of the free," we sure are also free to be just as hateful as we want.

But I agree - it was inappropriate for that teacher to show Brokeback to 12-year-olds.  It's an R-rated movie, plain and simple.

The raciest thing I was ever shown in school at about that age was Franco Zefferelli's "Romeo and Juliet."  And I still thank that teacher every day of my life for starting my love affair with Shakespeare.  Robert Warren was his name - a Vietnam vet who lost a leg over there, sort of ironically enough.  I was in the 8th grade.  And I was utterly captivated.  I don't know what the rating was at that time or if there even was a ratings system in place.  While there was certainly no nudity, there were adult themes galore:  unconditional physical love; family ties that make us feel behooved to be somebody we're not; societal intolerance; suicide.  I see Brokeback as a version of that story.

I'm sure that teacher had the best of intentions.  She wanted to show the class a modern-day "Romeo and Juliet" and she probably also wanted to teach them a little something about acceptance and love.  But knowing it was R-rated already put her in muddy waters.  I feel for her, but ultimately I think she was wrong.  I also think it's wrong to sue over something like this.  The school board apparently did not know she was showing the film (given the closed door bit).  The grandparents must be aware of this.  And yet they sue anyway.  They are just trying to make a point, a la Beth Farmer in "Donnie Darko," and like hers, their point is "We don't like to be exposed to anything different from what we believe."  I'm sorry, again, but get the hell over it.

Oh I agree completely that therapy and a lawsuit is ridiculous!

Making a mountain out of a molehill...and causing more 'harm' to that kid than any movie ever could!

[Kerry]

I don't know of any such series of books in this country, Kerry, unfortunately. 

The books are written by Vicky Harding and are titled:
* My House
* The Rainbow Cubby House
* Koalas on Parade
* Going to Fair Day

The complete teachers' manual by Vicky Harding, titled "Learning to Include - Teaching & Learning about Diverse Families in a Primary School Setting," is available at:

www.hotkey.net.au/~learn_to_include/pdf/manual.pdf

It is a a PDF file, which means you will need to have Adobe Acrobat on you PC to view it. Adobe Acrobat if free, at their site. 

[delalluvia]

But I agree - it was inappropriate for that teacher to show Brokeback to 12-year-olds.  It's an R-rated movie, plain and simple.

The raciest thing I was ever shown in school at about that age was Franco Zefferelli's "Romeo and Juliet."  And I still thank that teacher every day of my life for starting my love affair with Shakespeare.  Robert Warren was his name - a Vietnam vet who lost a leg over there, sort of ironically enough.  I was in the 8th grade.  And I was utterly captivated.  I don't know what the rating was at that time or if there even was a ratings system in place.  While there was certainly no nudity, there were adult themes galore:  unconditional physical love; family ties that make us feel behooved to be somebody we're not; societal intolerance; suicide.  I see Brokeback as a version of that story.

The grandparents must be aware of this.  And yet they sue anyway.  They are just trying to make a point, a la Beth Farmer in "Donnie Darko," and like hers, their point is "We don't like to be exposed to anything different from what we believe."  I'm sorry, again, but get the hell over it.

I can't recall what the rating for Zeferelli's "Romeo & Juliet" was, but it certainly had nudity - topless scene for Olivia Hussey (Julie) and naked butt scene for Leonard Whiting (Romeo).  They must have cut it for your viewing pleasure, but yeah, notice how they left in such 'acceptable' children's themes as murder and suicide. 

Amazon has a "G" rating for it.  Go figure.

Children are very susceptible to influence.  If her grandparents and everyone at her church or neighborhood chimed in with how badly upset the girl must be, then she'll probably go along with everyone and say how upset she is, whether she actually is or not.  If anyone is 'traumatized' I think it must be the grandparents.

[Brokeback_Dev]

If Brokeback Mountain can effect an adult's life to the point where it's changed forever (MINE!), imagine what it can do to a child's.

Now that's a very good point Kerry!  I've never been affected so strongly by a film! I would have to agree that it could affect a child just as much as mine, yours and ours!

it was inappropriate for that teacher to show Brokeback to 12-year-olds.  It's an R-rated movie, plain and simple.
I'm sure that teacher had the best of intentions.  She wanted to show the class a modern-day "Romeo and Juliet" and she probably also wanted to teach them a little something about acceptance and love.  But knowing it was R-rated already put her in muddy waters. 

I think at the very least a there should have been a permission slip sent home to parents of the students stating that Brokeback would be shown to their 12 year olds and returned signed by parents.  Granted she was a substitute, but she must have no what she was doing.  she will no doubt loose her job.

As far as the the law suit?  the results remain to be seen.. will seeing Brokeback Mountain affect the child to the point of a life of psycho therapy?  i dont know.. Kids see more dramatic things at home and in the school yard.

The language used in the movie was not abnormal for most 12 year olds ears to have heard, even the Christian children.  The constant smoking is not a highlight of the film and to me was a bit offensive, my opinion only, the sex and nudity should not be shown to children and neither should the graphic violence of Jack being killed or the pot smoking when they shared that joint during the "its gonna snow tonight for sure" scene..   

[Daniel]

Hmmm, I guess I just find it strange for the public school system to advocate literature which entails graphic adult sequences (and indeed has no problem doing so) but has immense difficulty with films which demonstrate the same thing visually...

Besides the extraordinary Shakespearean plays, the following books have been required reading for me in middle and high school.

Oedipus Rex Three suicides, self mutilation.
Antigone A number of suicides, mention of rape.
The Sound and the Fury Forbidden sex, contemplation of incest
All the King's Men Filled with adult language, somewhat graphic sex scene
The Iliad Mention and advocacy of homosexual relationship, graphic violence depicted
The Catcher in the Rye I can't remember what all was in this book, but adult language I think is a given.
The Garden of Innocence No, it has nothing to do with innocence.
The Great Gatsby Some depiction of sex, adult language
Metamorphoses Some of the most erotic poetry ever written in the classical age

Without going completely into Shakespeare, but here's a short list.
Julius Caesar Depiction of violence, a number of suicides.
Romeo and Juliet
Hamlet Sexual agression towards women, including one's mother. Violence, a number of suicides.
Twelfth Night Crossdressing, sexual frustration with homoerotic edge.
Macbeth Witchcraft, murder, rather strong language considering when it was written

[Brokeback_Dev]

Interesting Daniel and good points made here.....

[opinionista]

I was shocked about the grandparents's decision to sue the school. I mean, I agree no teacher should show an R movie to a 12 years old. But if this was another movie, not about homosexuality, this case wouldn't have gone to court. They would've settled it at the Principal's office. I think they're overreacting because the movie is gay themed. IMO the whole issue is fueled by homophobia. That's what saddens me.