The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Gender, sexual orientation and power
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 21, 2007, 07:21:10 pm ---Good question! Maybe we should just ask them directly. OK let's hear it, all you gay men out there: Who considers women to be inferior to men?
--- End quote ---
Not in some of the bars I've been in! ;D
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 21, 2007, 07:21:10 pm ---
How did men get so dominant and sexist in the first place?
--- End quote ---
The lust for power. Don't you want to have control of the situation?
In the past physical strength (seen as a masculine trait) was very much a part of that.
Feminine is seen as weaker and less desirable in that context. (This is not my personal view, don't be coming after me with no shotgun now!)
That's why lesbian (more like men) women are seen as more desirable and homosexual (less like men) men less desirable.
This selfish lust for power is being replaced in some quarters by the realization that everybody working together for our mutual benefit yields more economical, longer lasting results.
The selfishness partly depends on whether you world view is "There's not enough to go around" or whether it's "Together we can make enough for everybody."
I guess my short version is it's a racket perpetrated by the "might makes right" crowd.
The ironic part of course is "It's the hand that rocks the cradle that rules the world." So where are these men getting all these ideas from?
Meryl:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 21, 2007, 07:21:10 pm ---How did men get so dominant and sexist in the first place? Is it because they're physically stronger? Or is it because killing animals and fighting wars (while women took care of children) made aggressiveness and power-grabbing evolutionarily adaptive traits?
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In cases of war, power-grabbing, ridiculously dangerous sports and aggression in general, I've come to think of men as the "testosterone-impaired." Or perhaps "hormonally challenged" would be more p.c. today. ;D
Yes, testosterone has brought us good things like survival of the fittest, inventions, great art and landing on the moon, but when put up against millions upon millions of war dead, genocide and power grabs over the millenia, I see it as a very mixed blessing. :(
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: Meryl on June 23, 2007, 01:09:06 pm ---In cases of war, power-grabbing, ridiculously dangerous sports and aggression in general, I've come to think of men as the "testosterone-impaired." Or perhaps "hormonally challenged" would be more p.c. today. ;D
Yes, testosterone has brought us good things like survival of the fittest, inventions, great art and landing on the moon, but when put up against millions upon millions of war dead, genocide and power grabs over the millenia, I see it as a very mixed blessing. :(
--- End quote ---
Testosterone impaired!!!!! :laugh:
Now come on, we all have our hormonal crosses to bear!
I think part of our task is to figure out what works best in spite of our biological difficulties.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Meryl on June 23, 2007, 01:09:06 pm ---Yes, testosterone has brought us good things like survival of the fittest, inventions, great art and landing on the moon, but when put up against millions upon millions of war dead, genocide and power grabs over the millenia, I see it as a very mixed blessing. :(
--- End quote ---
And even those good accomplishments are questionable. Women have made great art, for example, and would have made still more. But sexist societies have a) kept them too busy with housework and child care to have time for art b) actively prevented them from making art c) suppressed what art they did make d) sometimes even forced them to credit males for the art they'd made.
So what men and women can accomplish or have accomplished should be seen in the context of what each has been allowed to do.
--- Quote from: Clyde-B on June 23, 2007, 11:55:10 am ---The ironic part of course is "It's the hand that rocks the cradle that rules the world." So where are these men getting all these ideas from?
--- End quote ---
From women, in many cases. Women have absorbed society's sexist messages, too. For example, many Afghani women are pleased to don a burkha and accept other restrictions. Many American women refuse to consider themselves feminists.
Clyde, nice to see you joining us! :)
Meryl, do you think we should start a new thread? I'd love to continue this discussion, but I don't want to keep people from posting actual Brokeback slang, and I want to make sure all of those who'd like to participate in a discussion of sex, sexuality and power know that it's going on.
Clyde-B:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 23, 2007, 01:48:51 pm ---And even those good accomplishments are questionable. Women have made great art, for example, and would have made still more. But sexist societies have a) kept them too busy with housework and child care to have time for art b) actively prevented them from making art c) suppressed what art they did make d) sometimes even forced them to credit males for the art they'd made.
So what men and women can accomplish or have accomplished should be seen in the context of what each has been allowed to do.
From women, in many cases. Women have absorbed society's sexist messages, too. For example, many Afghani women are pleased to don a burkha and accept other restrictions. Many American women refuse to consider themselves feminists.
Clyde, nice to see you joining us! :)
Meryl, do you think we should start a new thread? I'd love to continue this discussion, but I don't want to keep people from posting actual Brokeback slang, and I want to make sure all of those who'd like to participate in a discussion of sex, sexuality and power know that it's going on.
--- End quote ---
Well, thank you for inviting me, latjoreme.
This verbal denigration of groups or individuals in order to hold on to power is quite common. If you can get the people in the group you're trying to control to buy into the idea that you are superior to them, then you've got it made. Women, gays and other minorities have been fed a steady line of this BS for how many years?
We are like Ennis, we must stop believing it as truth and start seeing it as propaganda and what it's purpose is. Believing it is to enlist us against ourselves.
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