Jack never telling Ennis about the shirts --- by paintedponyxox --- 1 of 2
by - paintedponyxox (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:21:58 )
It wasn't until after multiple viewings of the movie that I ever even thought about this, but it's pretty interesting that after all that time after they were reunited up until Jack died, he never told Ennis anything about how he had taken that shirt he thought he lost on their last day on the mountain.
It makes me wonder exactly how much Jack comprehended of what it was they had between them. Obviously he understood a lot more than Ennis did, but do you think he actually understood that it was love, after all? When they're arguing the last time they see each other and he says, "I hope you know that if you don't never know the rest," what exactly does he mean by "the rest"? Jack might have fooled around with other men before and what he and Ennis did on Brokeback might have started out as just a sort of fling, but then at the end of the summer he stole Ennis's shirt to have something of his to keep if they never saw each other again. Ennis's shirt, with Ennis's smell in it, with his blood on it, which he never washed off. More than that, he kept it safely tucked inside his own shirt, hidden in his closet. You don't take something of someone's to have some part of them with you like that when they are just a good friend you got to fooling around with when you got lonely to the point of desperateness. Surely even someone like Jack would realize this is only the kind of thing somebody does when they are actually IN LOVE. Those shirts end up being the only remaining solid proof that Jack really did truly love him.
Jack was usually pretty open with Ennis and would admit to things Ennis wouldn't, like when he says he redlined it all the way to Wyoming and couldn't get there fast enough. But as much as he would say things when Ennis wouldn't, he never told him that he took his shirt that day. He was probably afraid of what Ennis would think of it, and even of what it means. It's one of the saddest things in this movie, the fact that this love is there but they are unable to talk about it, even Jack, even if he's the one who recognizes it for what it is.
by - kschoe08 (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:26:14 )
I think that the reason the story was written that way is because it is no so much that Jack needed to realize he did it out of love, but was for Ennis to realize Jack took the shirts because he did love him.
by - BannerHill (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:30:28 )
Jack Twist had a tendency to lie, that is, he omitted the truth. He didn't tell the truth about Aquirre not hiring him, and he didn't tell the truth about the ranchers wife.
by - joyce023 (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:50:15 )
Hey paintedponyxox, beautiful thoughts! Make me feel sad again....
by - paintedponyxox (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:53:49 )
Yeah, Ennis would not have been happy to know those things. I think Jack never telling him about being with other men was not as much about not making him jealous as it was about not bringing up things that Ennis didn't want to talk about and deal with. Ennis thinks this is just a thing they have with just each other they can't explain, he doesn't want to think of either of them as being "queer." Jack had to be restrained about what he said to Ennis because he knew there were truths Ennis just wasn't willing to accept.
by - MtBecky (Fri Mar 31 2006 15:57:38 )
Gosh, reading what you wrote made me cry all over again...
by - caoilfhionn (Fri Mar 31 2006 16:22:41 )
Jack seemed to be very truthful, sometimes to the point where it could get him in trouble, except when it came to lying to spare ennis's feelings.
by - dcij47a (Fri Mar 31 2006 16:55:26 )
This is a GREAT topic.
My thoughrs:
Wondering why Jack did not bring the shirts to Texas.... Yes I know, Lureen will "find out". But I would imagine it could be possible that if these shirts are so important to Jack, he would want to be close to them all the time. At least close enough under locks and keys.
BBM message board exclusive......: I can relate totally to Jack's action of stealing the shirt. Becasue I have done that myself. Trust me, it is not a totallty pleasant experience. Well, or I should say a bittersweet kind of thing.
by - BlackRabbitOfInle (Fri Mar 31 2006 17:16:39 )
UPDATED Fri Mar 31 2006 17:17:35
Wondering why Jack did not bring the shirts to Texas.... Yes I know, Lureen will "find out". But I would imagine it could be possible that if these shirts are so important to Jack, he would want to be close to them all the time. At least close enough under locks and keys.
I think the reason why he didn't bring the shirts with him and lock them up in his house in Texas is because they don't belong there. I don't really know how to say this, but I think that for him, to mix the 'normal' life (Texas) and the love he has for Ennis (the shirts) together might taint the memories and the feelings he and Ennis shared. For something so special that he held on so dearly, he would probably try to protect it any way he can, keeping the shirts somewhere safe where no one -- not even him -- can touch them. But it has to be somewhere that he might, from time to time, go back and revisit those days he tried to protect from fading. Hence, he used his parents' place, where he was sure his mom would keep his room protected.
by - paintedponyxox (Fri Mar 31 2006 17:23:29 )
That little hidden place in his closet in Lightning Flat probably seemed like the safest place to keep them. They just wouldn't belong with his life in Texas. Nothing he had there was of any value to him.
I can imagine it is a very bittersweet thing to do, which is maybe why Jack just kept them in that closet and didn't move them, maybe didn't even take them out and look at them much at all. Maybe it was too painful to think about what it was a reminder of, the only time they were together and able to be genuinely happy.
by - jshane2002 (Fri Mar 31 2006 17:42:24 )
When Ennis called Lureen she told him she would have called him but "Jack kept his address book in his head." It sounds like he was careful what he left around for Lureen to find, although he couldn't keep track of where he left his blue parka.
There might have been something telltale, maybe something having to do with Randall, you get such a strong sense that some things about Jack came out after his death, whether it was accidental or not.
Also there was some communication between Lureen and Jack's parents ( they'll be there till the day they die). " Since Jack's all too willing to volunteer information about Jack to Ennis he might have shared some of the same storied with Lureen. We just don't know. Jack's dad only seemed to want to share info if it was to be mean.
by - paintedponyxox (Fri Mar 31 2006 17:59:36 )
Jack's death did end up revealing a lot. Another thing Jack never said anything to Ennis about was how he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain. For all Jack knew, Ennis would die first and never know a thing about that. But since he died unexpectedly and young, all of these things he kept from Ennis were revealed. And what he had actually meant to Ennis was also finally revealed to him.
by - garlicbreath (Fri Mar 31 2006 20:45:55 )
I like that idea, about Lureen saying Jack kept his address book in his head. I think he was really quite terrified about letting Lureen find out, contrary to what he says. He wants to keep his two lives separate.
And - I think it's just perfect how Ennis finds the shirts at Lightnin Flat. Even though they were supposed to be all hard from hangin from the nail for years, can't you just imagine a 19 year old kid falling in love for the first time? And he just want a piece of him when he leaves, to smell or to bury yourself in the memories. And when he goes home, all of 19 years old, he hides the intertwined shirts in a little cavity in his closet so his pa can't find em. When he grows up, gets out, gets married, there's no way he'd bring the shirts so his wife and scary father-in-law can find em. they're tucked away at home, in the safest place he can think of, with his coats and his folded boots.
I guess I also kinda think that though Jack's always open with his feelings, maybe to actually come out and say that he'd been in love with him for 20 years, explicitly, and that he'd stolen his shirt those 20 years ago is a bit embarassing.
But oh, it's just so perfect, isn't it. Ennis burying his face in the shirts, hopin for that stale sweet stink of Jack, and only having memories.
by - Penthesilea (Sat Apr 1 2006 04:01:22 )
UPDATED Sat Apr 1 2006 04:07:31
The place at his parents' is the place where Jack always wanted to bring Ennis to!
He always told his dad, one day he would bring Ennis to Lightning Flat and they would bring up his parents' ranch together. That's the place where he wanted to life TOGETHER with Ennis.
He wanted it so badly, but in the end he never was able to do so, cause Ennis refused to. But at least he had Ennis' shirt there! At least a bit part of Ennis, even if it is only an old, bloody shirt. And I think we all know why he kept the two shirts together the way he did.
I think that's why he never removed them. In the beginning (after their first summer on Brokeback) he probably had no other place to keep it safe. And later he didn't remove it due to the above said.
by - majikstl (Sat Apr 1 2006 04:41:25 )
Maybe it is just me, but I am always finding souvenirs all over the place. If I come home from a trip or an event or a party or even just a movie, and I have a postcard or a ticket stub or a little knickknack, that I don't want to throw away, I just tuck it into a drawer or a cubbyhole or in-between the pages of a book and forget about it. Sometimes I come across it months or even years later and haven't the foggiest idea what it is or where it came from or why I saved it. Other times, I will find a little momento and it will make me smile and then I'll put it right back where I found it and just be happy to know that I saved it and it wasn't thrown away or lost.
I think that was what Jack did. He took Ennis' shirt, possibly thinking that returning it would be a good excuse to see him again. Instead, he tucked it away somewhere and just didn't think about it. Maybe when he came to visit his folks, he'd check to see if it was still there, be pleasantly surprised to see that his mother hadn't washed it or thrown it out and he'd just smile. And not think about it again for months. To Jack it was just a sweet, secret remembrance; to Ennis the shirts would be prized treasures. Either way, neither Jack nor Ennis would ever tell anybody else about the shirts or their significance, because men just want to be thought of as being sentimental. Men are sentimental, we just like to keep those feelings private.
by - reannawrites (Mon Apr 3 2006 13:45:02 )
bump....He could barely tell Ennis he missed him, how could he tell him about the shirts...He might have tried though..It must have occurred to him to say it in all those years.
by - taj_e (Tue Apr 4 2006 09:22:34 )
UPDATED Sat Apr 29 2006 03:11:38
Good thread
We see Jack appreciate little things. It was his nature to take something which will remind him of those special moments. We saw lots of that in his room no matter how less and bare it was
I guess, Jack wasn't sure by then. It is interesting though that he never mentioned that to Ennis (Jack's mother knew though). I do noticed in other movies that people took things from their 'loved ones', shirts, underwear (eg. Grande Ecole). It is normal to keep photos or gifts etc
Jack was better at keeping his mouth shut. He knew when NOT to say things. Unlike Ennis, it is obvious even if he didn't admit it
by - CarolinaBlue1982 (Tue Apr 4 2006 11:00:58 )
I know this is a weird question, but did Jack tell his Mom about the shirt? I got the impression that she knew about Ennis and sent him up to Jack's room in the hopes he'd find the shirt. When Ennis came back downstairs she gave him a look and put the shirt in a brown paper bag for him. Any thoughts?
?
by - Wiggitywiggity (Wed Apr 5 2006 06:03:35 )
"Maybe it is just me, but I am always finding souvenirs all over the place. If I come home from a trip or an event or a party or even just a movie, and I have a postcard or a ticket stub or a little knickknack, that I don't want to throw away, I just tuck it into a drawer or a cubbyhole or in-between the pages of a book and forget about it. Sometimes I come across it months or even years later and haven't the foggiest idea what it is or where it came from or why I saved it."
Lol, I do the exact same thing:)
by - afhickman (Sat Apr 8 2006 09:21:14 )
Jack and Ennis are all about secrets. But I think in this case that Jack was probably just embarrassed to tell Ennis what he'd done. After all, Ennis tends to turn any attempt at sentiment into a joke. Remember the scene where he's staring up at the stars. Jack asks, "Anything good up there in heaven?" And Ennis responds, "I was just sending up a prayer of thanks." It's obvious at this point that Jack misinterprets Jack's remark as some sort of attempt at sentiment, but when he asks, "What for?," Ennis replies, "For you forgetting to bring that harmonica." Jack is amused, but he's also crushed. I don't think he keeps the fact of the shirts from Ennis because he's afraid that Ennis will be mad; I think he's worried that Ennis will make a joke out of the shirts and out of Jack's mawkish sentimentality. He keeps the shirts as a sort of shrine, and he doesn't want that shrine desecrated by mockery. His mother must know about them, but she loves her son and wouldn't dream of making fun of him. Old Man Twist is another matter entirely. It's only after Jack's death that Ennis is ready to be admitted into the presence of this sacred arena and shrine to their love. Ennis then becomes the sole votary of the shirts.
by - bobbytwist (Wed Apr 12 2006 09:53:43 )
Yes, I definitely think Jack's Mom knew about the shirts, and that one of them was probably Ennis'. She made a point to tell Ennis that she kept Jack's room the way it was since he was a boy. When Ennis came down with the shirts, she looked at him and nodded like she knew and had expected him to take the shirts. If she had any doubts up until that point, she knew for sure then.
I think she sort of smiled at Ennis as he handed the shirts to her and she put them in the bag. She knew that he was the one who should have them.
by - amh625 (Wed Apr 12 2006 10:51:35 )
UPDATED Wed Apr 12 2006 10:55:57
Obviously he understood a lot more than Ennis did, but do you think he actually understood that it was love, after all?
Yes, I think Jack absolutely understood it was love. Jack took that shirt and kept it all those years because he loved Ennis from the very beginning all the way through to the end.
When they're arguing the last time they see each other and he says, "I hope you know that if you don't never know the rest," what exactly does he mean by "the rest"?
He was reiterating to Ennis that they could have had a good life together if it weren't for Ennis' fear. The "rest" referred to Jack's being with other men, and it was in response to Ennis saying "all them things I don't know should get you killed if I should come to know them". In other words, Jack said "The bottom line is we could have had a life together, but it was your choice not to, regardless of whatever else went on."
So sad and heartbreaking!
by - Floyd_RHL (Sat Apr 22 2006 05:24:11 )
I think Jack was both realistic and open to ideas and dreams. He was realistic as many people on these boards have said over and over that he was careful with the way he had expressed himself to Ennis. But sometimes telling the truth no matter how kind it may be can diminish the dream... "All we got! Is Brokeback Mountain!!" Brokeback is a memory - it really happened, but sometimes after a long while the memories turn into dreams.
But more than that ... I also think those shirts, the main act of devotion for Ennis, weren't only to feed Jack's private longings for Ennis. He was hopeful, optimistic, and "open to love". At the first good bye, it seemed questionable that they would ever see each other again. Each time they saw each other, the more real to each other they became - instead of being just a figment in each other's minds and imaginings. I think he had hoped for a future in which they were both living with each other, in time the shirts would just show themselves to Ennis... there wouldn't be a need to tell Ennis guess what, after all this time,... on any of the trips.
One last thing, and this may be more to the point. Jack never forgot that those shirts were tucked away in that alcove in his closet. The last painful departure between him and Ennis had ended with him saying he was heading back to Lightning Flats. At this time he was with Randall, and evermore he was realizing that he had to "let it be, let it be".. he would have continued meeting Ennis, just to remember, even if he and Randall were to still see each other ... and I just think this is so because he had not changed the way those shirts were hanging in his closet that day after the painful scene. A fight cannot keep you away from the one you so love. In fact it would bring you to get closer to whatever reminded you of him ... he had to have seen those shirts when he returned home that last time. And he had kept them that way on purpose.
by - lauragigs (Sat Apr 22 2006 08:55:02 )
"He had to have seen those shirts when he returned home that last time [after the fight by the lake]. And he had kept them that way on purpose."
What a great point, Floyd!
by - terryhall2 (Sat Apr 22 2006 08:57:51 )
Being a communicator Jack knew when to talk to Ennis and what not to say, certainly after his attempts to ask Ennis to live with him. When they left BBM that summer, Jack was going back to see his parents so he took the shirts there. Why would he have taken them to Texas? He didn't know he was going there till the NEXT summer when he learns that Ennis hadn't been back to Brokeback. It shows that Jack never forgot about Ennis.
by - korgriff (Sat Apr 22 2006 20:10:17 )
This is a great thread.
Floyd RHL you made me cry all over again. I so agree with you about how Jack left those shirts after he went back to Lightning Flats. That is so amazing. It shows the power of their love. Its so sad.
