Why didn't they call each other?
by aag12345-1 (Sat Jun 24 2006 22:03:55 ) I understand that it's a more romantic plot device to have them writing each other post cards, but this story took place in the '60s and '70s. Isn't it odd that Jack and Ennis didn't just call each other? At one point Jack just shows up and Ennis is with his daughters and can't see him. It was a 14 hour drive between where they lived. Wouldn't he have called first?
"Boy that was really exciting. I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan aren't ya."
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by kula17 (Sat Jun 24 2006 22:55:31 ) UPDATED Sat Jun 24 2006 23:17:49
If I recall correctly, Ennis never owned a telephone throughout the whole movie. He had to resort to using a public payphone to make a call, but only when necessary. Pre-divorce, he lived in a small apartment with Alma and their daughters without any phone service. From the looks of it it seemed as if their apartment was recessed inbetween a liquor store and some sort of laundromat building. It was a very small niche in town; Ennis was a loner and preferred to stay isolated most of the time. He definitely was accustomed to keeping his distance from others (physically and emotionally).
Post-divorce, I imagine it was the same: phoneless.
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http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~psyc/personal/brokeback.htmRe: Why didn't they call each other?
by forloveoffilm (Sun Jun 25 2006 01:08:59 ) In the earlier years phone service was much more expensive than it is now. I don't recall there being a phone in any of Ennis's apartments.
As far as when Ennis drops the kids with mom at work because Ennis's boss called and needs him to go to work; The boss or someone for the boss could have driven out to Ennis's place to 'call him' into work.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by lillah_7 (Sun Jun 25 2006 08:43:38 ) Yeah, or he could just have lied about his boss, because we all know where he was REALLY going, right?
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by gargoyle888 (Sun Jun 25 2006 09:36:50 ) Yup. Actually, that's what I thought when watching it and that fits in with the story.
On the proliferation of phones in the 60's: I knew a few people who didn't have them back then. It was sort of like cell phones today; most people have them but in your circle of friends and acquaintances, you probably know one or two people who don't own one.
[post deleted]
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by tillerman-1 (Sun Jun 25 2006 17:22:15 ) ******because we all know where he was REALLY going, right?*****
If you think he was going to meet Jack, wrong Ennis hadn't heard from him yet in that scene. He gets the first postcard in the next scene when he comes back from work.After we see Jack and Lureen with the new baby.
As to having a phone in the first apartment I thought what was already mentioned, the call came to the laundrymat and someone ran up to the apartment to tell Ennis.
Ennis you know somebody named Jack?... From Texas?
Slightly OT, but funny
by LauraGigs (Wed Dec 6 2006 14:30:45 ) UPDATED Wed Dec 6 2006 17:04:42
Yeah, my parents grew up in the depression, so seeing them adapt to new modes of communication has been a trip:
One of the phones in my mom's house is still a rotary phone! She keeps it because the loudness of the ring — controlled by a dial on the bottom that can muffle the real bell(!) inside — can be turned way up and she can hear it, since she's a wee bit deaf.
I got her a cordless phone a few years ago, but at first she would stand right next to the base while using it. I was like, "Mom, you can walk around with this. That's the whole idea!"
(Forget cell phones . . .)
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by VerdiGuy (Sun Jun 25 2006 21:04:47 ) UPDATED Sun Jun 25 2006 21:08:05
I was a kid in the '60s. One set of my grandparents were poor farmers living in another state, and even though we lived in the suburbs of a city where my dad worked in an office, let me tell you, long-distance calls were a big deal because of their expense. (Remember, youngsters, back then, there was only one long-distance phone company nationwide, with no competition to keep prices down.) About the only time my family got to talk to my grandparents, besides when we actually visited them, was the annual Christmas-Day phone call, where each kid in turn was herded to the phone to say hello, but where each kid was also firmly urged to keep it brief, because of the cost of the call.
I'm pretty sure that Ennis and Alma's apartment in town must have had a phone, even though we never actually see them use it. They were poor, but they weren't destitute, after all. *Local* phone service wasn't that expensive at the time - especially if you had a "party line," as many people in small towns and rural areas still did.
As for Ennis' call to Lureen, well, I do rather doubt that Ennis had a phone in his trailer - if he *did* have one, Jr. probably would have called first rather than just driving up to surprise Ennis, for example. But there's another reason for the pay phone there: it's quick and handy. Notice carefully in the shot as Ennis reads the postcard ... the camera trucks around Ennis in a circle, and when it stops, a phone booth has just come into view across the street, on the extreme left side of the shot, and Ennis' truck is already parked on that side of the street not too far from the phone. So Ennis gets the card, and goes straight to the phone to get an explanation. Simple.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by gargoyle888 (Mon Jun 26 2006 12:07:30 ) Oh Yeaaa!
And do you remember when saying "He's on a long distance call" meant that everyone in the office/house had to be silent and ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NO INTERRUPTIONS.
Everyone exhaled when the call ended.
I still have a bit of that mentality and everyone thinks I'm nuts since today a cell pone call across the nation is no more expensive than a call across the street.
Plus we had to walk uphill in a blizzard both ways .....
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by NewHorizons37 (Mon Jul 3 2006 05:07:13 ) VerdiGuy,
I too remember when long distance calls were very expensive, and they were only for special occasions or emergencies. You never called someone long distance just to chat. Now having a divorce come through would qualify as a reason to call, and in the story Ennis did, but in the movie he had sent a card.
As for Ennis calling Lureen, I can certainly understand that even if he had a phone at home, he could not wait that long, he had to call asap to find out what had happened. But it does beg the question: how did he know Jack's number? It's hard to believe that he knew a number by heart that he had never called. I guess he called Directory Assistance first and that's not shown.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by kula17 (Sun Jun 25 2006 23:34:05 ) Well there you go, just because the movie didn't show them owning/using a phone doesn't mean they didn't have one. Have to remember to keep my perspective open sometimes. But if they did have a phone, the most sensible speculation/explanation I've read so far is from Verdiguy's post.
[Post deleted]
Re: Guys don't talk to other guys on the phone?
by terryhall2 (Fri Jun 30 2006 17:23:02 ) In the UK in the 60s we had a national phone service belonging to the Post Office and it would take months to get hooked up AND it would be very expensive. Home phone costs were then dearer than using the public phone at the end of the road (2d) 4 cents to make a 3 minute call. People still wrote letters to each other even if they lived the other side of London.
Now all that has changed and it must be difficult for younger folks to visualise what it was like.
I would imagine in the States with the long distance it would have been harder still. Come the 80s, I might have thought Ennis would have contacted Jack more often. He had his phone number and surely Jack was in a position to accept collect charges. It seems twenty years is just too long to have a relationship hidden - both wives knew about the other man in their husbands' lives so I don't think a call here and there would have gone amiss. In fact, it would have been safer in those days (without phone tapping)to arrange rendez-vous.
Re: Guys don't talk to other guys on the phone?
by HellsThorn (Fri Jun 30 2006 19:04:46 ) I don't think the time period has much to do with the fact that they never called eachother. I know how wives can be, Ennis would be calling Jack alot (and vice versa)I think Alma would suspect Ennis if he was talking on the phone,because we know she would be secretly listening. I think Ennis was too afraid to talk to Jack on the phone, afraid of getting 'caught' Talking on the phone with each other would be too formal for Ennis, and it wouldn't match the movie.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by andros12 (Fri Jul 14 2006 11:07:37 ) UPDATED Fri Jul 14 2006 11:12:11
On the old ring up phones in rural areas an operator would often answer and ask "number please?" The plugs for the local calls usually made up the "body" of the switchboard while the long distance outlets where often located at the upper right hand corner of the board. After plugging in one of the desired outlets, the operator would then usually listen until the desired party responded and then "click off" of the switchboard and let the call continue.
Needless to say, the operator always had at least one other option.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by SweetVanilla (Fri Jul 14 2006 11:46:13 ) I don't see how Ennis could go that long without talking to Jack. If he was afraid of using his home phone (if he had one) due to people listening in, why didn't he call Jack for a few mins. from the pay phone. And he could have called collect, as Jack wasn't hurting for money. And if he was afraid that by calling collect maybe an operator would listen in, I'm sure he could have spared some change for a few mins. to say hi, I miss you, I wanted to hear your voice and then goodbye.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by robotsu (Sat Jul 15 2006 18:17:17 ) Because neither wanted to risk having to explain to the other's wife, or other family member the reason for the call. Or perhaps they simply wanted to keep their affairs secret. After all, if Ennis is going to so much trouble to keep his relationship with Jack a secret, do you really think he would risk a call?
I am a product of the comming of age in the 1960s, and I remember it being a big deal, and an expensive one, to call my grandparents from across the coutry. Few in smalltown America had private lines, so calling your lover was risking party-line easedropping, gossip, public humiliation...all the things Ennis was trying so hard to keep private.
And it could simply be that neither knew where the other was and did not bother to use the telephone directory or information service as we do today. And that's probably what he did to contact Lureen. Post cards are more convenient, and more ambiguous, and the cards said nothing more that coordinating a fishing trip.
bump
by LauraGigs (Thu Jul 27 2006 16:07:12 ) interesting
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by watergarden (Thu Aug 17 2006 19:41:15 ) UPDATED Thu Aug 17 2006 21:02:47
I agree with Robotsu here, there are many reasons Ennis might NOT want to use a phone except in the case of extreme emergency like finding out if Jack were really dead.
If he and Alma had a phone in their apartment, it might very well have been on a party line. I am not sure when individual phone service happened in Wyoming, but we had a party line with our phone back in Iowa into the early seventies.
He might also have hated using a phone, a silly contraption that doesn't allow you to see who you are talking to. I am older than Ennis would be today if there really were an Ennis, but I can imagine him not liking any contraption except a television. To this day, I absolutely hate using a phone longer than 30 seconds.
Just a personal view, of course.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by bhgardner (Wed Aug 30 2006 23:46:47 ) It probably amazes young people nowadays, but it actually used to be quite normal to communicate through the mail. I maintained constant correspondance with my brother and several friends, writing a letter every week or so, into the 1980's. I had an aunt who lived, like Ennis, in a trailer out West (South Dakota) and she never had a phone; I'd be amazed if Ennis had a phone in his trailer. And as tight as money was, I'd be surprised if Alma and Ennis had a phone in their apartment.
Also, for whatever reason, straight men didn't chat with male friends on the phone the way I see them doing now; it would have seemed strange. I can remember sometime about 15 years ago a much younger coworker mentioning that her husband had long phone conversations with his best friend and thinking, how odd; it obviously didn't seem odd to her. Married men never bought (or washed) their own clothes back then (say, pre-1980's) either. Strange how small customs change.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by afterpreg (Thu Aug 31 2006 03:40:34 ) Or even better...MSN with webcams!
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by Shasta254 (Sun Nov 5 2006 13:17:56 ) Yeah---I have to my cell phone to meet up with people I go to the mall with---I don't see how Ennis and Jack ever hooked up without a cell! Especially out in the wilderness. Hmmmm....could it be that they planned things in advance better than we do? A lot of things are "spur-of-the-moment" now.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by droog9000 (Sun Dec 3 2006 01:08:43 ) They didn't have phones in the 1930's!!!!!!!!!!! Gosh, some pepoles kids
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by Isaac5855 (Wed Dec 6 2006 12:24:08 ) I think they were trying to build lives away from each other and I don't think either one of them would have liked getting caught on the phone by their respective spouses...at some point, a wife would have heard something that these guys wouldn't have been able to explain away.
Why didn't they call each other?
by pianocellolove (Sat Dec 30 2006 16:41:27 ) As a 60's kid, I recall having a party line. Hated it! That would have made any calling very risky back then. I remember getting my young ears full of some meaty conversations!
You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by JaJasMa (Sat Dec 30 2006 20:37:25 ) If you were having an illicit love affair, and these were the days before cell phones, would YOU call your lover at home?
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by OgMallet (Fri Jan 12 2007 00:35:26 ) bump
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by latjoreme (Fri Jan 12 2007 06:24:25 ) If you were having an illicit love affair, and these were the days before cell phones, would YOU call your lover at home?
No, because you never can tell when this thing will grab hold of you, at the wrong place, wrong time -- even a phone conversation could be risky, with others possibly around.
I think Ennis' call to Lureen was a big deal for him. Only at that point was he ready to take such a risky step.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by northernlad (Fri Jan 26 2007 06:58:42 ) I'm bumping this too. There are some interesting discussions here.
I laugh aloud cause my life has gotten inside someone else's mind.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by vick3ie (Fri Jan 26 2007 08:38:31 ) Yup.
I guess it's just a generational thing. There's no way Ennis would have had a telephone at his place and long distance would be completely out of the question for him. The issue of party lines is one I had forgotten about as they were pretty much out by the time I was aware of such things. I did have a friend whose family had one, I thought it was hilarious.
I trust Severus Snape, completely.
Re: Why didn't they call each other?
by moodyiv (Fri Jan 26 2007 10:57:29 ) UPDATED Fri Jan 26 2007 10:58:20
Think about it. Gay men in the 60's and 70's, in a rural setting. Gutteral cowboy tough guys everywhere, ready to kill a "fag", as they would say. They would do anything and everything to keep this relationship under wraps. Calling creates suspicion and other people can listen in. Lot's of letters cause suspension and can be opened by nosy wives. They werent exactly brilliant men so, encryption was out. They had to be careful. I don't think Ennis always had a phone either. Jack visiting every month was raising suspicion enough but couldnt be proved. Although they were caught by Ennis wife. Little mistake. It all makes sense. yes?
