Cellar Scribblings

[Penthesilea]

At least some of the big "mainline" Protestant denominations in the U.S. seem to have lost the Big Deal that Confirmation used to be. They kind of don't know what to do with it, since it got separated from First Communion. They don't seem to want to do away with it entirely--I guess because it's tradition--but they really don't seem to know what to do with it. In the interest of theological correctness Confirmation seems to have lost the value it once had as Life Passage.

Anyway, I hope it was a nice party, with cake and all.  

I don't think so, at least not for our German protestant churches.
The children have to go to Confirmation classes for one or two years (depending on the federal country). My girls went for two years, I had to go only for one year as a teenager (different federal country). In that time you learn lots of church stuff, there's lots of space, goodwill and possibility to discuss a thousand topics related to ethics and/or religion. There is room for doubt, there is room to be honest. The children really mature in that time span.

They learn what Confirmation means and they are asked if they really want to do this.
After Confirmation they are allowed to the Lord's Supper, they can say for themselves whether they want to stay a member of the church, they don't need the parents' permission to leave the church and/or Religion as a school subject. They are clearly told that they are viewed as and can act like adults in regard to everything church related. So I think the rite of passage aspect is still alive and well.

They are proud and know very well that the Confirmation is big step on the way to become an adult.

[Penthesilea]

At least some of the big "mainline" Protestant denominations in the U.S. seem to have lost the Big Deal that Confirmation used to be.

Ooops. Only now I see the qualifier you mentioned. Of course, I have no idea how this aspect plays out in the US.
But I'll let my post stand because now my interest is peaked. Why and how do you think this is different in the US?

[Penthesilea]

The children really mature in that time span.

Just to clarify: of course they don't mature due to the Confirmation classes, but due to biological developments. But I think it's a good thing to have a place to discuss "adult stuff" during that time. Hear differing opinions on ethical questions, be confronted with such questions in the first place. It helps them to develop their own moral compass.
In school there's also time and place for such things, but to a lesser extent. And in school, there are always grades. At home, they hear (often, mostly?) only one opinion, the one of their parents.

[Front-Ranger]

In my confirmation class, I was the only student! So my experience aligns with what Jeff said, I guess. At my current church, there is a small handful of students each year, even though the church has about 500 members and a very active youth program. What few confirmed Presbyterian youth there are are pretty active though. Quality, rather than quantity.

Visting Germany about 20 years ago, we arrived in the Mosel Valley on the Sunday after Easter. We got to see the parade of the First Communicants walking down the street to church, dressed all in white, with the ones behind them who had taken their first communion 40 years before. It was very festive. Afterwards, there were family parties in all the restaurants. The only problem was that we wanted to taste some wine but no one was available to pour it. Finally, we got a winemaker to break away just for a few minutes to pour a little wine for us.

[Penthesilea]

In my confirmation class, I was the only student! So my experience aligns with what Jeff said, I guess. At my current church, there is a small handful of students each year, even though the church has about 500 members and a very active youth program. What few confirmed Presbyterian youth there are are pretty active though. Quality, rather than quantity.

Here it's rather vice versa. Most of the children who have their Confirmation behind them don't look back and don't stay active in the parish. For the above mentioned reasons I still think that's okay.

But only one or a handful of students? Over here, they rather throw two parishes together if they only have such few students.

Visting Germany about 20 years ago, we arrived in the Mosel Valley on the Sunday after Easter. We got to see the parade of the First Communicants walking down the street to church, dressed all in white, with the ones behind them who had taken their first communion 40 years before. It was very festive. Afterwards, there were family parties in all the restaurants. The only problem was that we wanted to taste some wine but no one was available to pour it. Finally, we got a winemaker to break away just for a few minutes to pour a little wine for us.

He he. Yep, Low Sunday (we call it Weißer Sonntag = White Sunday) is traditional for Catholic children to have their First Communion. Do not try to go to a restaurant then, not ever.
But I'm glad you still got your wine tasting!

[Jeff Wrangler]

Ooops. Only now I see the qualifier you mentioned. Of course, I have no idea how this aspect plays out in the US.
But I'll let my post stand because now my interest is peaked. Why and how do you think this is different in the US?

I make my assertions based on my own experience coming up Lutheran in the U.S., compared to my father's experience, and also reading that I've done, which is mainly is sources that concern the Episcopal Church (the U.S. version of Anglicanism).

In my father's day, kids were confirmed maybe around the age of 12 or so, and we still have my father's copy of Luther's Small Catechism (in English translation, of course). In my father's day, kids were confirmed, and then they were admitted to Communion for the first time; Episcopalians did it the same way. But then, according to books I've read about the Episcopal Church, around about the 1960s or so, theologians started looking into things, and the churches decided that Baptism made a person fully a member of the Church, so why should any baptized person, even a child, be denied Holy Communion?

The Lutheran Church in America (now called the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) came up with a program of instruction for children who were in about the Fifth Grade in school, called "Welcome to the Lord's Table," which the kids took in Sunday School, and then they were admitted to Communion. I think I was a little before that program, but I do remember in Sunday School the pastor taking us up to the chancel in the church, where we gathered around the altar, and he explained about the service--what the chalice was, and so forth, that kind of stuff--and gave us unconsecrated hosts to eat--they tasted horrible then and they still do.

When I was attending a membership class prior to joining my Episcopal parish, I asked the assistant rector if the Episcopal Church had any program of instruction for kids before they received Communion for the first time. In response she gave me a blank stare and asked why that was necessary.

So anyway, thinking back, I guess I received my first Communion when I was about the age at which my father was Confirmed, but then the pastor kept putting back Confirmation for my age group in Sunday School further and further until parents, mine included, started asking questions, and so finally I was Confirmed in February 1974, when I was almost 16 years old and only a few months before I got my driver's license.  There was a special service, though we didn't use the Confirmation liturgy in the hymnal. I never laid eyes on the Small Catechism until after I was Confirmed, and I went to the woman who ran the church's small library and bought the books and asked her if she could get me a copy of the catechism, and she did.

You just don't hear about families making a big deal over someone's Confirmation anymore. Certainly back then, nobody made much of a fuss when I was Confirmed. About the biggest deal that I can remember is that now that we were Confirmed, we were expected to start making an Offering every Sunday!

[Jeff Wrangler]

He he. Yep, Low Sunday (we call it Weißer Sonntag = White Sunday) is traditional for Catholic children to have their First Communion. Do not try to go to a restaurant then, not ever.

Episcopalians call it Low Sunday, too--as in "low attendance" after Easter. 

"White Sunday"--Whitsunday--is Pentecost (Pfingsten, I believe?).

[brianr]

In my day it was the "done" thing to be confirmed (if you were an Anglican) at age 14. I remember my group had about 40 and I felt sorry for the bishop who confirmed us 2 by 2 and had to repeat the some prayer about 20 times. As was the custom then, you did not receive communion until you were confirmed and there was a series of lessons with the Rector beforehand. I doubt we had much ethics in the lesson, just Church doctrine.
Now the children return from Sunday school before communion and go up to the rail with their parents. It is up to the parents whether they just take the wafer, receive a blessing or the cup. We have a large sunday school but there were no confirmations this year. Our church has just employed a curate largely to work with youth. I have not liked the fact that young people have been going to the youth programs in a neighbouring church which is evangelical and homophobic.

The Anglican church in Aotearoa/New Zealand is holding its biennial synod (government) at the moment. Yesterday they discussed a report on ordination of same-sex partnered priests and same-sex marriages. There was a report which gave 10 choices ranging from maintain traditon, divide into 2 churches (unlikely), accept new understanding and new rites and discuss for another 2 years.  I was on tenterhooks all yesterday but heard nothing until late when I was told there were discussions in committee all day (so not public) then postponed until today with an all night prayer vigil.
The previous bishop of my diocese ordained a man in a same-sex relationship but the present bishop will not do so becasuse it is against the provincial rules. Howeve he continues to license that man and has licensed 2 others (a man and a woman) also in same sex relationships. I met the man for coffee a few weeks ago. He was a catholic priest iin another country and was told to return to Rome for "treatment". He left and joined the Anglican church. As Anglicans recognise his priesthood, he did not need to be ordained but our bishop, knowing his same-sex relationship, has licensed him in our diocese. However he keeps his relationship quiet. I think the woamn formed her relationship after she was ordained, she is fairly public.
Both the bishop and my vicar are at General Synod and support same-sex marriage but they do not want the church to split. My own vicar cannot see all the fuss but he is happily married with 5 children. I have signed a  pettion (750 signatures) and publicly declared I will withdraw my membership of the church if there is not some clear movement towards full acceptance of GLBT persons. As I stated, the church is now the only the organisation in New Zealand which discriminates.

[CellarDweller]

  Hiya BetterMost friends.

Yup, it's bowling night.

I have to be there earlier, as I'm on a party comittee for the league, and we have to get plans going for the June 17th season end banquet.



Prize money will be given out then, and we'll also do a "tricky tray" fund raiser, with all money going to charity.  I'm making up a basket called "Night at the movies" with about 6 gay DVDs, some popcorn and candy.   And "no", they're not "those" types of DVDs.

I used:

Small Town Gay Bar
How To Survive A Plague
Latter Days
Shelter
Out In The Dark

I can't remember the 6th movie, it may have been Were The World Mine.

[CellarDweller]

Hiya BetterMost friends.

Happy Hump Day to you all!

My, such mature conversation in my blog lately!  Love it!  Please continue, if you wish! 

Bowling went well last night ("strike" portion of my blog is updated) and  I'll actually be at the lanes again tonight.  One of my teammates can't make the final night next week, so he's been allowed to pre-bowl, meaning he'll bowl tonight, and the scores will hold for next week.  If the other team doesn't want us to do that, then we'll take an absent score for him, meaning last night's scores will carry over to next week.

Otherwise, it's status quo here!