Re: The Choice of 'Surf Party' as the Clip at the Drive-In
by - seaweed727 (Thu Mar 2 2006 13:50:36 ) Casey,
I've been at this along with the rest of the observers here since the movie came out almost three months ago and wanted to thank you once again for an enlightening post.
The next scene is at the drive-in and shows Alma attempting to initiate physical contact with Ennis, noticably preoccupied and 'glued' to the movie, by pulling his right arm towards her to feel the new life swelling inside her. The visual reminiscence is with Jack's first physical contact with Ennis in the initial tent/lovemaking where Jack pulls Ennis's same arm over to him in order that he feel Jack's own 'swelling' anatomy [not to put too fine a point on it !!].
I was so happy to see you bring this up as I noticed it on my first viewing of the movie... how the motion of Alma's arm guiding Ennis' hand to her swelling belly and their un-born child jumped out at me. The parallel was nothing I could describe as well as you have and I am so happy to see it mentioned. You really have added so much to my enjoyment of this great movie with your discussions and observations.
"I got a boy. Eight months old.... Smiles a lot."
Its a clip from The Misfits!
by - Wooski (Thu Mar 2 2006 14:04:16 ) its Marilyn Monroe on screen!
No to The Misfits and That's Bobby Vinton
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Mar 2 2006 14:13:58 ) UPDATED Thu Mar 2 2006 14:17:03
It's not Marilyn Monroe but appears to be one of the ubiquitous Marilyn Monroe clones from the period. Don't know the name of the actress [no pics in the IMDB listings for the cast], but the young man looks like Bobby Vinton.
Surf Party is acknowledged in the final clearance credits for Brokeback Mountain.
Re: No to The Misfits and That's Bobby Vinton
by - Julie01 (Thu Mar 2 2006 22:37:48 ) Just got back from the movie, and finally wrote down that in the Ennis-Alma falling off the sled, Alma unexpectedly grabbing him, Ennis's instinctive reaction to fight back, quickly halted when he remembers it's Alma, and rubs snow into her hood instead--- reminiscent not only of the Jack-Ennis fight on the last day on Brokeback, but also, if anyone watching the movie has read the story, of how Ennis's dad tells him how to get rid of his older brother's domination--catch him unawares (and hurt him). In this case, the element of surprise is provided by Alma.
I'll buy Alma's womb being reminiscent of Jack's cock, on some level, possibly a negative one, possibly not--the cock is only in the story (of course). but "Surf Party" is so vapid, it wouldn't remind me of anything I wanted to remember, and the poor soul who thought that girl looked like Marilyn Monroe--doesn't know what he missed. My attraction for people of my own sex is really disgustingly nil, but Marilyn Monroe...I didn't think Ennis was fasacinated by the movie, either.
Just me again...
"You come back and see us again"--Jack's mother
Re: No to The Misfits and That's Bobby Vinton
by - southendmd (Fri Mar 3 2006 10:31:15 ) Casey,
IMDb suggests the actress we see in "Surf Party" is Jackie DeShannon!
Re: No to The Misfits and That's Bobby Vinton
by - Petronius Arbiter II (Fri Mar 3 2006 11:25:14 ) Holy cow! "Needles and Pins" Jackie De Shannon! Who'da thunk it!!!
As much as I love The Searchers' version of that song, I'd have to say I love De Shannon's original-release version even more.
***looks British-invasion music conscious***
"I don't deduce, I observe."
Re: No to The Misfits and That's Bobby Vinton
by - kellyjt (Sun Apr 9 2006 14:36:44 ) First off, interesting interpretations of the use of "Surf Party" in the film. I was curious as to why such an obscure movie was chosen. It's not even available on DVD or video.
I'm most certain that the boy in the film clip is Bobby Vinton, and I'm pretty certain that the girl is Patricia Morrow, not Jackie DeShannon. Now, "Surf Party" and the performers in it were before my time, but I have had a keen interest in '60s and '70s pop culture since I was a kid, and I ain't totally ignorant on those topics.
I don't recall ever seeing photos of DeShannon with that flip hair style like that of the girl coming out of the trailer in the scene. I've only seen her with long (past the shoulders), straight hair. However, Morrow had that flip do or something like it for much of the 60s (sometimes the flip was out, sometimes in). Morrow was in the "Peyton Place" TV series. I couldn't find too many pictures of her on the web, but I did find this page. . .
http://members.aol.com/mbubb81706/vietnam.html Whaddya think? I'm curious to hear from others to see if they think it's Morrow or DeShannon. Maybe we could debate that instead of whether Jack was murdered or not. . . it gets tiresome.
Re: The Choice of 'Surf Party' as the Clip at the Drive-In
by - starboardlight (Thu Mar 2 2006 23:38:35 ) UPDATED Thu Mar 2 2006 23:46:31
I wonder too if the Surf Party clip also reminds Ennis of the moment when the two boys first met. In Surf Party, the girl steps out of the trailer and greets the boy, which throw us back to the moment where Ennis and Jack steps out of Aguirre's trailer, finally shaking hands and formally meet. A stark contrast of how openly flirtatious the girl and the boy in Surf Party were able to be in just three words "Well, hello there" while Ennis and Jack had to be very coy and subtle with their attraction to one another.
Re: The Choice of 'Surf Party' as the Clip at the Drive-In
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Mar 3 2006 16:30:48 ) UPDATED Wed Apr 19 2006 21:40:47
starboardlight:
More brilliance from you. DUHHH I hadn't even considred linking the two trailers together.
My only other thought was that the Surf Party clip seemed at first glance to be a suggestive morning-after scene, its innocence contrasting with the dis-ease of Ennis and Jack's - an allusion in my mind to the morning after the first tent scene with Ennis waking up, hoisting his pants back up from around his ankles and 'beating it out of camp' before Jack rose.
OT- About souvenirs..horses
by - RobertPlant (Fri Mar 3 2006 08:23:13 ) I've posted in several other threads that in every scene showing Ennis's life between the Signal parting following Brokeback right up to the Riverton reunion with Jack there is a subtle visual or aural 'rhyme', souvenir, or reminiscence of the idealized loving relationship with Jack during the Brokeback summer.
I think you've already discussed this topic, sorry.
My question: is there something similar when we see Jack?
I looking for signs and noticed horses:
-there is a big horse head in Aguirre trailer, when Jack goes there and asks about Ennis (in the first summer it's not there)...btw in the first summer Aguirre binoculars are in teir case , in the second one they are outside
-the picture of an horse in the Bobby
birth scene, behind Jack. We see it well when he goes away. In the next image we see Ennis truck and the big ELK on the building at the corner.
-a little horse in the "Honey, where is my blue parka" scene (the previous image is the card Alma puts under the newspaper, with the big Honey on it)
-a picture with an horse in the Thanksgiving scene, behind Lureen father when Jack says him "you son of .."..(indeed Lureen is on that horse so maybe it doesn't count)
-two horses on the "entering Wyoming" signal..
Please ...answer ..
I'm packing my bags for the Misty Mountains
over the hills where the spirits fly
Re: OT- About souvenirs..horses
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Mar 3 2006 09:34:14 ) UPDATED Fri Mar 3 2006 22:08:20
I had not noticed the use of a visual 'horse motif' in Jack's scenes in as consistent a way as I had noticed the details I've raised with regard to Ennis.
Worth some thought.
My first reaction is that since both Lureen and Jack have rodeo riding in their background, it would make sense that they would have 'trophies' of their accomplishments peppered around their living spaces.
The horse as a symbol in film is frequently associated with a strong 'life-force' [and not just in westerns as I'm thinking of Andrei Tarkovsky's incredible "Andrei Rublev" here] - so it might make sense that there is some extra-quotidian significance to it with regard to Jack. He does have that iconic carving of the horse and rider on his childhood desk and there has been much discussion regarding his pulling the 'crow-hopping' horse under control in front of Ennis up on Brokeback, another revealing juxtaposition of the life-energy evident in the horse and the quenchless desire in Jack.
Re: OT- About souvenirs..horses
by - latjoremekeed (Fri Mar 3 2006 09:52:11 ) Wow. Thanks CaseyCornelius, for another amazing thread. And bravo to the other contributors too. It's threads like these that keep me from quitting this board. I get to the point where I don't think there's anything else to analyze, and then you guys point out a whole new web of meanings.
Shouldn't we be earning grad school credits for this?
Anyway, others have mentioned this elsewhere but I don't think I've seen it on this thread; the way Alma holds Ennis in the bedroom scene echoes the way Ennis holds Jack in the flashback. It's the rhyme but in reverse, adding a little extra resonance to the flashback, and a little more sadness (retroactively) to the bedroom scene.
Re: OT- About souvenirs..horses
by - BannerHill (Fri Mar 3 2006 10:19:40 ) Wow
That is an amazing line of logic. It never dawned on me that her coming out of the camper was a reminder of Jack in the tent. Jeez
Anything I should ask Dianna today?
"Hey Ennis, do you know someone named 'Jack'?"
Re: OT- About souvenirs..horses
by - naun (Fri Mar 3 2006 20:35:05 ) UPDATED Fri Mar 3 2006 21:15:53
The horse as a symbol in film is frequently associated with a strong 'life-force' [and not just in westerns as I'm thinking of Andrei Tarkovsky's incredible "Andrei Rublev" here]
Casey, it's interesting to hear you say that. I mentioned in another thread that the horses in BBM suggest to me the notion of nature being in harmony with itself. When the two men are together we frequently see horses in the background, usually grazing peacefully. I doubt it's accidental since the shot often appears to be framed deliberately to include the horses, the most notable example (if I'm not misremembering) perhaps being the "dozy embrace" shot. In (chronologically) later scenes, by contrast, we see the horses "caged" in the back of Ennis' truck, and of course that is what Jack sees when the "dozy embrace" scene returns to the present and Ennis departs for what turns out to be the last time. It may also be significant that the first time we see the horses confined in the back of Ennis' truck is at his home after his marriage to Alma.
Strangely enough the grazing horses reminded me of Andrei Rublev too, particularly the very last shot in the film. (I don't pretend to have the foggiest idea what Andrei Rublev is about -- if there's ever a CaseyCornelius thread on it, please let me know -- but that hasn't stopped some of its images from lodging in my mind in the fifteen or more years since I first saw it.) What you say about the horses representing a "life-force" rings true to me, especially when you bring up those scenes where Jack has trouble bringing his horse under control.
Interestingly, there's some fairly prominent "life-force" imagery in Hulk as well, although there it usually takes the form of moss, of all things. I mention this because there are some pretty obvious thematic similarities between the two films. In fact, I'm starting to think that there must have been some creative cross-pollination going on -- remembering that Ang Lee read the screenplay for BBM before he made Hulk. There's even a shot in BBM of horses treading on moss, which had never struck me as even remotely significant until this moment.
Jackie DeShannon
by - WLH-V (Fri Mar 3 2006 20:44:13 ) "Surf Party"
Jackie DeShannon's #1 song: "What The World Needs Now"
(written by ace team of Burt Bacharach and Hal David)
Will & Dre
Only 2 daze: Academy Awards on Sunday, March 5 @ 8 p.m.
Horses and the Life Force
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Mar 3 2006 22:38:44 ) naun:
Thanks for your observations regarding the horses - astute as ever you are.
The freedom versus the containment of same is very telling throughout the film, just as you've pointed out.
I'd second your observation that the positioning of the horses within the frame or in relationship to the actors might have some significance. Repeating a post from another thread, I raise Ang Lee's admitted influence and admiration of Michelangelo Antonioni. And one can certainly see this in the scene of Jack bringing his 'crow-hopping' horse under control in one half of the frame juxtaposed with Ennis calmly cleaning breakfast dishes with his docile horse tethered in the background.
Lureen in her first lurid appearance is shown literally charging into the film on her wild mount [sorry, can't stop thinking of this suggestive rhyme to her name - right in keeping with Annie Proulx's Dickensian suggestive name choices of Twist, Aguirre, Alma]. What a perfect allusion to her take-charge, no nonsense, won't-take-no-for-an-answer, direct seduction of Jack two scenes later and in the rest of her life - obviously her Daddy's daughter?
I sense a terrific discussion nascent here, which might have to transfer to a new thread.
RE: Andrei Rublev - without a doubt, if I was forced to pick one film, would be my favorite film of all time. I see it as a vast epic on the relationship of THE ARTIST to the beauty, terror, violence, jostling for political and religious power, incredible natural beauty, and destructive forces ever present around him. I shudder when I contemplate some of the most powerful scenes in the film [especially a horse stumbling down the stairs and crippling itself during the horrible Tartar raid] and never fail to break down at Andrei's embrace in the penultimate shot of the young bell-maker Boryska as the only person who can understand what his celebrated artistry has cost him in physical and emotional sacrifice. Only one other film on this great theme of THE ARTIST comes close, and that is Ariane Mnouchkine's amazing film biography of 'Moliere'[1978].