Gay Marriage

[tampatalon]

I think that gay marriages, legal ones, will save gay lives!!

Hopefully!! ??

Hugs!!

I heartily agree with you Artiste.

TampaTalon ^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

Maybe that legal gay marriages will also bring more legal rights too?

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks tampatalon!

Maybe that legal gay marriages will also bring more legal rights too?

Hugs!

Legal Marriage would bring full legal rights such as it does it Canada; however, legal rights do not erase the years of learned prejudice and hatred, only time will heal those later wounds. And that applies everywhere.

TampaTalon ^">

"Never enuff time"

[CellarDweller]

We need to not settle for "civil unions" and press on for full marriage rights.

As I understand it, couples who have received civil unions are being told they get most rights that a married couple would have, such as medical benefits or pension benefits.

Then, when they go to the employer, the employer tells them "our company only covers spouses or "husbands and wives", and since you are not married, we do not have to extend the medicial or pension rights to your partner."

[tampatalon]

We need to not settle for "civil unions" and press on for full marriage rights.

As I understand it, couples who have received civil unions are being told they get most rights that a married couple would have, such as medical benefits or pension benefits.

Then, when they go to the employer, the employer tells them "our company only covers spouses or "husbands and wives", and since you are not married, we do not have to extend the medicial or pension rights to your partner."

Agreed CellerDweller, but till then one must have all your legal paperwork in a row to protect your loved one and yourself. And by paperwork, I mean Wills, Durable Power of Attorney, Medical Power of Attorney and whatever else your state or jurisdiction may require. My employer,here in Florida, does offer medical benefits. Upon my legal Canadian marriage I went to have my partner's name changed on the medical package. Before I could finish explaining I was told, "We cannot do that because the marriage is not legal here". I then handed the Human Resources Agent a Court Ordered Legal name change and said., "This Court Order says you will."

Deafining silence and then the name was changed.

TampaTalon ^"> (Still employed)

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon, and thanks CellarDweller!!

Happy that you are considering legal marriage rights there in the USA, as well as in Canada (and elsewhere)!!

When I saw that the islamic MD was murdering my gay lover.partner.buddy.pal in the hospital, I tried to say that I had rights and said when asked that I was a PARTNER!! Then, they revived my buddy from what I know!! Otherwise, he would surely been sold from Canada to an islamic country for body parts much quicker... I guess!! I figure that is what happened! I am still sad!!

I think that gay marriages (in many forms such as civil unions, legal marriages at city hall, etc.,) will help SAVE lives of gay men such as I and you!! However, religions fought this in Canada, and still some like so-called religions are against (even so-called religions like the islamic ones will murder gays as they accept no other religions nor gays at all)!!

We must continue to ask and demand in Canada, in the USA, and elsewhere, and require laws for gay marriages and for other rights. Gay marriages help with you having permission to see your lover in a hospital, for you to get or share pension plan, to help your lover or yourself in a court of law, etc.; there are many civil rights and human rights associated with this!! You know??

Hugs!!

[Artiste]

I think that this subject is very important!!

May us all communicate much more about it?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

I think that this subject is very important!!

May us all communicate much more about it?

Hugs!

I agree Artiste this is very important, in fact I believe that same sex marriage is the core of Gay rights as human beings. So, how is this accomplished? It is one thing to post our agreement as to the urgency in this matter. I hope that we all agree on this! But it is another thing to actually aid and foster its implementation.

I don't know the Canadian system, but I sure do know US politics fairly well. There seems to be two routes to this type of legal / political change:

1) thru the courts - The Federal Courts can rule that Same Sex marriage is legal, and thereby bind the states to implement it, barring action by the US Congress. If this happens there will be an enormous political backlash that will probably result in an admendment to the US Constitution defining marriage as between a man and woman only. This is not something that those of us who advocate same sex marriage want at all. An example of high court rulings changing US social policy is the 1973 Roe v Wade decision which legalized abortion in the US before a political consensus emerged among the states. Abortion rights are now fairly uniform across the US, but there was been continuous agitation for a reversal of Roe for 30+ years. According to some Supreme Court watchers whom I trust there are a definite 4 ro 5 votes right now to overturn Roe and send the issue back to the State legislatures for possible voting on the degree to which individual states will allow or disallow abortion rights. If a Republican is elected in Nov 2008 you can count on another Alito type appointed to the court and Roe is overturned. Then the battle over choice goes on for years state by state.

2) carefully build political consensus in those areas of the US that are likely to allow same sex marriage - lobby legislatures and municipalities to issue laws allowing such marriages. Consensus among the electorate is key to winning this stategy. This is the hardest route and the slowest, but the most likely to have results that stand the test of time and elicit the least amount to backlash. In the US, the electorate ultimately has the final say, and if the voters vote for same sex marriage, it will be very difficult for the opponets of same sex marriage to reverse it.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

Be assured that I like very much your description! That was done as so, (like you say, in Canada, as we asked for gay marriage in the parliaments (federal, provinces...) which refused it and fought for it in the courts, as well in the public opinion for gay rights!! We must continue here in Canada, and elsewhere in the whole world! Aid somehow the USAgays, you and I and others!

May  we, every gay persons and straights,  thank our soldiers for creating our freedom and continue to create it, for us all !!

Like them, we, gay persons, with straights, can and should and must try for our freedom to love and to marry legally!

As a gay man, I was puzzled by the idea of gay marriages. Still am... somewhat or much. And see more and more the values of  and for it! Many valuable ways FOR it!

I do not think that I would have been allowed to see my gay lover in the hospital, nor to try to save his life, had it not been for gay rights in Canada!! He and I were not married to each other (that is a different story for later), but  other legal acts here in the province provided me means to see him, as well as to try to save his life.

Why should one not see his lover in the hospital? Shocking is such a refusal by a hospital!

Gay marriage is one way to protect oneself in order to see your lover in the hospital!

And there are other reasons, as staights (many or too many or some) kick you out the door of your own home in the house you lived with your lover for many years, when your lover dies!!

I agree with you... that those two ways are urgent for gay marriage to happen...


hugs!

[tampatalon]

Brokeplex and Artiste, Your comments are excellent. There are also other ways to advocate gay marriage in everyday life. First step as my husband and I did was to go to Canada and become legally married. Once back in Florida our subtle struggle began and we continue the fight changing were possible one mind at a time. In the fall of 2008 the Florida Marriage Admendment will hit the ballot defining Marriage as between a man and a woman. I call it the Admendment of hate and discrimination as it goes further to ban Civil Union and Domestic Partnership. It will most likely strip Domestic Partner Insurance and Benefits to government workers and univeristies as it has in Michigan and Ohio. But back to our struggle. I decided at work I was not goning to "Ennis" myself behind whispers and remarks, I just came out with it and wear my wedding band everywhere. After the intial shock rumbled thru both work campuses, they decided to throw a reception and it went well. Eventially people who were resistant to this concept of marriage settled back into normalcy when they saw the world did not turn upside down. We also put each other as spouse or next of kin when filliing out paperwork. Usually we are then approached with curiosity and nothing more. We do not sport the fact we are married no more than a strait couple unless asked or are in one of these above situations but we feel that if we change a few minds by being a good example, we have accomplished the world. Maybe it will stop a few more people from voting for discrimination in Florida 2008

TampaTalon ^">