Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 15/07: Short story or movie, which one do you prefer?
brokebackjack:
What DO you all think of the way sparely drawn characters in the short story were fleshed out in the film? Do you think Alma was 'the short story Alma', enlarged for the film? Did Lureen seem to be the woman Annie wrote about?
Artiste:
Thanks!
Brokebackjack, you say: They want their lives to be magically fixed, They are unwilling to do the work which must be done if real change occurs.....
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I guess that every person (straights as well as gays, but gays live and have to live in fear) wants some sort of security? Plus, we (humans) all are afraid of change? Of course, their is always degrees and changes in one's lives, but they do so radically or fast?? Maybe the BM movie or book does that, radically or too fast for some??
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Oregondoggie, I do not see that my topic is off-topic, If so, so is yours? Plight of women...???
I accept this somewhatThe plight of the women in the film, far more detailed than in the short story, is a cause for sadness. My best female friend here in Portland lost her husband to AIDS. She still reels from the knowledge that he was "Bi" or "Gay"... When I bought the DVD, she borrowed it to see alone. It became a topic off-limits. We could not discuss it. Just as I wish... :
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Then, may I say that you are re-acting maybe like the gay men you said about? I agree that everyone wants to stir away from a subject when it is painful or difficult!! It is better to really get involved, is it not?? May I ask?
I find puzzling, as I am a gay man, that the accent is not only on the gay or bi lives (especially of the main two charactors who can be considered also maybe only heterosexuals by some), that not much as far as I concerned the film helps gay men, but why about straight women in it so much about them?? So, I do ask about that concerning what might be preferred the movie or the film, concerning these two main points (the 2 main charators concentrating about the men, as well as the thie women (their wives)... as I think that those questions posed are important!!
Hugs, hugs!!
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: Artiste on December 11, 2007, 07:38:10 pm ---Then, may I say that you are re-acting maybe like the gay men you said about? I agree that everyone wants to stir away from a subject when it is painful or difficult!! It is better to really get involved, is it not?? May I ask?
I find puzzling, as I am a gay man, that the accent is not only on the gay or bi lives (especially of the main two charactors who can be considered also maybe only heterosexuals by some), that not much as far as I concerned the film helps gay men, but why about straight women in it so much about them?? So, I do ask about that concerning what might be preferred the movie or the film, concerning these two main points (the 2 main characters concentrating about the men, as well as the the women (their wives)... as I think that those questions posed are important!!
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For what it's worth, I think it's worth exploring some of these issues, and I appreciate that you've put some time into explaining this Artiste. I also think you make some valid points here, but I get the impression that you are lamenting the suffering of Ennis and forgetting that that's the point of the film. The audience is supposed to feel frustrated. We are asked to empathise with the situation each character find themselves in, and to relate to them. Morals then present themselves as we think about the lot of Ennis, or Jack, or Alma as we consider what we think the character should have done. Without this the story would simply be: boy meet boy... and lives happily ever after. A few minutes later the audience would leave the cinema quite miffed that the film only runs for 30 minutes! Hmmm.
Ok, so here's where I hook this conversation back to the topic in question (just for you Oregondoggie). The book is very superficial when it comes to the women of the story. Because of this, in my opinion, we don't connect to Jack & Ennis in the same way as we do in the film. To me it's all the more tragic that the boys muck up their own lives, but they also hurt the people closest to them. That's what's so tragic. I feel sorry for Alma, it wasn't her fault Ennis made a mistake. So if she resented Ennis somewhat, I completely don't blame her. Do we get any of this from the book? Maybe, a little, but the film treats this as an important theme and is richer as a result.
For me the book is equally powerful, but for different reasons. It is trailblazing, it is unique, it is paradoxically succinct and epic at the same time. It awes me that such depth and texture can be conveyed in so few pages, and to be so moved by the themes. But many of these achievements can be attributed to the film also, as if Ang Lee "upped the ante" of the film's texture and substance and combined these with a subtlety we don't always get in films.
So do I think the film or book is better? I think the film does more with the material in all the right ways. Really, does anyone think we would all be here without the film, or if the film was a dud? Would the book alone still have us analysing this story? Doubtful. The film is better, definitely.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: Artiste on December 11, 2007, 12:08:27 am ---
What concerns me mostly is that some gay men that I communicated with had seen the BM movie and dislike it greatly! Never wanting to see it again!! Why? We must try to find out that??
There are also other concerns which puzzles me. Many women I feel and (I see in some ways) see the movie wanting it to be anti-gay!! They simply dispise the two main charactors!! Why?? Again, can this be an anti-gay thing??
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Artiste, perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention to you but, this is the first time that I have read one of your posts about Brokeback being "anti-Gay" that you have offered a discussable reason for this.
You have met gay men who dislike BM? Tell us about their demographics, I am curious. I know younger gay men who are a bit bored by it, D.L. is one. He knows my story with Chris and sees the analogy, but he just drifts off during the movie while I am tearing up.
You know of women who want the movie to be anti-gay? This is something that I also have not run into. My conservative Southern Baptist sister was unexpectedly moved sympathetically by the movie.
Tell us the details of the those men and women who have reacted negatively to BM.
Artiste:
Thanks Aussie Chris, and thanks brokeplex!!
Aussie Chris, you bring up good points. I will re-read them. Which point you want me to talk about?
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Brokeplex, concerning females who disliked the BM movie, there are many, many, many!! I have found that on sites where you can give your impressions about the film. These women or ladies do, however, despise the two main (gay?) charactors (Ennis and Jack), because they got married as had wives; they still puzzle me, but I undertand some of it since a few ladies here explained that a bit. So, their accent on those sites are not for pro-gay, but anti-gay, disliking Ennis and Jack!! I wonder why?? I would love most or some of those to discuss that with us on Bettermost, to detail that and their feelings!!
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Aussie Chris: Like brokeplex and others here, you amaze me and you can be assured that I am happy that you do. Your thoughts are revealing; they help me. Yes, I may lament the lives of Ennis and Jack (since I now that they are mine), and less so for their wives!! Maybe, that is so because I am a gay man?? But since I sense that the accent of the movie is maybe too much on wives, I think that is one source where gay men might dislike or hate that film ( and see it as anti-gay, in a way ) ??
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As to liking the story or movie, I think that we are far away to determine that yet!
Awaiting your news gentlemen and ladies,
hugs!!
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