Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?

<< < (4/32) > >>

Front-Ranger:
In addition to all the other good reasons that were mentioned here, I think Jack and Ennis were the only two people who applied for the job. The other young men around wouldn't have been interested in that job when there was roughnecking to do.

brokeplex:

--- Quote from: atz75 on December 07, 2007, 01:48:05 am ---
Do we really think that Jack's a bad sheep herder?  I don't really know if that's the case.  Maybe he really is at least reasonably good at herding and that's the reason that Aguirre re-hired him. 


The loss of sheep due to the weather really wasn't the result of the skill of the herder (Jack or otherwise).  And, Ennis is seen at least once asking Jack what to do in terms of herding... When the sheep get mixed up he says "what are we supposed to do now?"  And, I think he may genuinely need Jack's advice about unmixing sheep, finding the lead-sheep, etc.  I wonder if Ennis and Jack are both equally good as herders but good at different aspects of herding.  We always see Jack leading the herd when they're going up the mountain and when they're moving the flock.  And, of course, Ennis lumbers along at the rear with all the supplies (Jack being in the lead of course has lots of other connotations in the story... and begins with their walk to the bar at the beginning). 

But, you're right that Ennis and Jack didn't end up doing their jobs to the best of either of their abilities (I mean a sheep is killed on Ennis's watch)... but of course this is mainly because they're very distracted.
:)




--- End quote ---
Those are good questions and observations. I think that Jack had all of the skills and experiences to be an excellent herder or ranch hand. He just didn't have the motivation. He preferred to complain, rather than to excel. Jack wanted to be rodeoing somewhere else rather than tending to the sheep or the camp. This is what made him a marginal employee. Ennis took to the herder job like a natural, he was motivated and had a good attitude. The sheep would never have been scattered or killed on Ennis's watch had he not been distracted. But then there would be no story without the Twist distraction.

Earlier it was asked why would Aguirre give Jack a second chance? I suspect that Jack could talk a good game with Aguirre and Aguirre needed him. That type of skilled labor was perhaps in short supply in 1963. I think that Aguire had his faults, how can I defend what clearly is a homophobic reaction to Twist? But, I think that there is more to the story than just that homophobia. Aguirre is very disappointed in Jack, he expected more from him. Aguirre saddles up his horse, rides up the moutain to check on the boys and what does he see? Well, he doesnt see Jack up on the mountain tending to the herd, he sees him "rolling in the dust" with Ennis while the dogs babysat the sheep. I'm not so sure that I would have been as verbally patient with Jack. I'm pretty sure I would have asked him some blunt questions about why did they trade places and why were the two of them taking the time to 'stem the rose' instead of tending to the business of the sheep. I also remember that after shovedown, Aguirre dresses them down, but he did pay them even though there were unacceptable losses. I personally might have handled the matter somewhat differently.

Brown Eyes:
Heya,

I do think you're right that when you look at the situation objectively (without our Brokie-instilled love of both Jack and Ennis, etc.) from Aguirre's point of view neither Jack nor Ennis are doing their job very well during the summer of '63 and they both disobey in their decision to switch roles.  So, I don't really fault Aguirre for anger, etc. over that aspect of things.

I still do fault Aguirre over his homophobia (of course) and for his insistence that they do something that's against Forest Service rules to begin with.  I don't know all the nuances of that type of work and the culture of sheep herding, or ranching or any of those things.  But, as a general rule, if I as an employee, had a boss who asked me to do something that could get us (or me) in trouble, I would be really angry and really question the ethics of the boss.



So, I have a new, unanswerable question (though fun for speculation!) about Aguirre... who do we think he's talking to on the phone at the beginning (the "no, no, no" conversation)?

brokeplex:
On the Aguirre's misuse of the allotments in the Forest Service lands. My take on that is based on conversations with some ranchers who have used allotments going way back into the 1960's, and reading a few histories of Federal Land usage.

Until the 1990's, the rules the Forest Service imposed on ranchers using the allotments were enforced in a spotty fashion to put it mildly. Aguirre's violations were commonplace and mild compared to what usually went on in most circumstances. Many ranchers and historians of the use of Federal Lands out West tell tales of temporary cabin structures being built in the camping areas, fires being used in the grazing areas, and vehicles and helicopters used in areas in which they were forbidden. I think that Jack resented Aguirres rules not out of a sense of morality at the violation of Federal laws, but because Aguirre made the job more inconvenient for him than he had anticipated. Ennis on the other hand wanted to get the job done. Ennis is the type of person that I would want to hire.

Sure I agree with you on Aguirre's homophobic reaction, but would it have been any different with other straight men of the period,locality and occupation? Actually, Aguirre is rather controlled. As a Gay man, I would have been pluperfectly pissed off at Jack. But then I would have set different working conditions right from the start. 

Artiste:
Thanks brokeplex!

You say: As a Gay man, I would have been pluperfectly pissed off at Jack.
...

Since I am perplexed by your sentence, please explain further? Is it that you would like to be in Jack's shoes,
being him in the movie??
...

You say also: But then I would have set different working conditions right from the start. 
...

Which ones may I ask?
...

And I am asking or stating: Is Aquirre really anti-gay??

Hugs!

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page