Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?
pnwDUDE:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 10, 2008, 11:28:53 pm ---Tell you what, I'm not questioning anybody here, but reading this suddenly reminded me/made me think that Earl and Rich probably didn't fit any common stereotype either. Remember, they ran a ranch, and Ennis describes them as "tough old birds," yet they were still "the joke of town." And look what happened to Earl. ...
--- End quote ---
Ennis was a little boy when this happened. There isn't anything in Proulx story that talks about Rich and Earl other than what Ennis described. What is important is that Ennis thought Earl was killed only because he was living with Rich. Again, it's about what Ennis thought.
Brad
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: bradINblue on January 10, 2008, 11:54:17 pm ---Ennis was a little boy when this happened. There isn't anything in Proulx story that talks about Rich and Earl other than what Ennis described. What is important is that Ennis thought Earl was killed only because he was living with Rich. Again, it's about what Ennis thought.
Brad
--- End quote ---
Sure enough, what Ennis thinks about it is important. But the implication from the story is pretty clear that Ennis had the right idea. He didn't imagine his father laughing about what happened to Earl. No, Annie doesn't tell us anything more about Earl and Rich, but I still find it hard to believe they fit any sort of gay stereotype.
From the story:
--- Quote ---"Whoa, whoa, whoa. It ain't goin a be that way. We can't. I'm stuck with what I got,
caught in my own loop. Can't get out of it. Jack, I don't want a be like them guys you
see around sometimes. And I don't want a be dead. There was these two old guys
ranched together down home, Earl and Rich -- Dad would pass a remark when he
seen them. They was a joke even though they was pretty tough old birds. I was what,
nine years old and they found Earl dead in a irrigation ditch. They'd took a tire iron to
him, spurred him up, drug him around by his dick until it pulled off, just bloody pulp.
What the tire iron done looked like pieces a burned tomatoes all over him, nose tore
down from skiddin on gravel."
"You seen that?"
"Dad made sure I seen it. Took me to see it. Me and K.E. Dad laughed about it. Hell,
for all I know he done the job. If he was alive and was to put his head in that door
right now you bet he'd go get his tire iron. Two guys livin together? No. All I can see is
we get together once in a while way the hell out in the back a nowhere -- "
--- End quote ---
Artiste:
JudgeHolden, you say: [ there's far more folks with guns in their truck than without and no that dont mean we're all in training to be the Dalton Gang, its just a way of life that goes way back. So Jack would not of been an obvious target of gaybashers.
Gaybashing is rarely a crime of conspiracy, as any cop will tell you, its almost always a case of opportunity and group intoxication. Its like the old fire triangle, fuel, heat and oxygen, you need bigotry, booze, and opportunity. Look at the notorious Matt Shepherd case: he was little, by himself, and way too trusting of these tweakers he met in a bar. That case is held up as the standard of what gay youth face, the statistics show that though gay youth are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than straight ones, the odds are still overwhelming that if they are going to meet an early end, it'll be the same way most staright kids do: in an auto-related accident.
/i]
...
JudgeHolden, may I reply to you and to all too!
1- My gay friend in the Grand Tetons which is in Brokenback area (as in the BM story and Annie's), had guns, since he helped men hunt - he a guide-, but he was murdered !! So even if you have a rifle in your truck, as you said, gay men do get murdered because they are gay, I say !! I think that Jack got murdered, really, because he was a gay or bi man!! Even if he had maybe a rifle or many or guns, how can a gay man not be murdered by a group of anti-gay?? That is similar to my own life, and surely of others who are now deceased or luckily survived such atrocities!!
2- As far as gay bashing is rare, that is bull. Since cops did not even asked details how dressed, the facial features, etc., about my four attackers who beat me up and left me for dead!! Most cops do not care if a gay man got murdered... and I have not only my own life, experience, to show about that. That leads me again to think that Jack was indeed murdered by gay bashers!!
So, I do not understand you ineedcrayons!! Any more comments from you and from others??
...
Awaiting your news,
hugs to all!! May all gay men be safe on Earth!!
LauraGigs:
--- Quote from: Artiste ---Most cops do not care if a gay man got murdered...
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're saying, Artiste. I think BradInBlue's point is that the townspeople and cops didn't necessarily know Jack was gay.
The film and book give no information on how Jack's death was handled by the local law enforcement. *If* Jack had been murdered, there may have been a full, thorough and serious investigation by the police. We just don't know.
pnwDUDE:
--- Quote from: Artiste on January 11, 2008, 01:40:31 pm ---Most cops do not care if a gay man got murdered...
--- End quote ---
Sorry Artiste, this is simply bull crap. Cops see so much of what is ill society and it's problems. What drugs do to people. How lots of adults behave like children--fight, domestic violence, road rage. Gangs--Bloods Crips 18th Streeters, shooting at each other. Tweakers racing down the street at 90 miles an hour in a stolen Toyota, stealing everything in sight and ruining so many lives. Black, white, Asian, hispanic, native American, young, old, hetro, homo, tranny...... It's not about what or who someone is, it is about what they did and their behavior.
Cops don't have time to dwell on someones sexual orientation or race for that matter. In fact, after 20 years in the field, I have come to the conclusion--as a homosexual (and there are many cops that are) that a majority of cops are more tolerant and accepting than most average joe's out there. Hey, try to find a homo cop or an Afican American cop, for that matter, that will tell you we are a bunch of racists and homophobes. For us, it's nice to see people, regardless of what they are, live good and happy lives. People that are respectful of others and solve problems/conflicts in a civil and adult manner.
Brad
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