Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?
belbbmfan:
Chrissi,
I couldn't get that line you quoted from the short story out of my head. So I went back to the story and this line almost immediately follows 'Ennis wanted to curse her for letting Jack die on the dirt road.' Ennis feels guilty for not being there to save Jack and feels that if he couldn't be there, at least Lureen should have been. More projection from Ennis as Paul pointed out.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: belbbmfan on January 09, 2008, 02:50:01 am ---Chrissi,
I couldn't get that line you quoted from the short story out of my head. So I went back to the story and this line almost immediately follows 'Ennis wanted to curse her for letting Jack die on the dirt road.' Ennis feels guilty for not being there to save Jack and feels that if he couldn't be there, at least Lureen should have been. More projection from Ennis as Paul pointed out.
--- End quote ---
Hi Fabienne,
I just went back to edit my post to add the exact same thing. The quote about Lureen letting Jack die and the fact that this is another projection by Ennis. But then I saw you post in the preview. Great minds think alike ;D
belbbmfan:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on January 09, 2008, 02:54:12 am ---
Hi Fabienne,
I just went back to edit my post to add the exact same thing. The quote about Lureen letting Jack die and the fact that this is another projection by Ennis. But then I saw you post in the preview. Great minds think alike ;D
--- End quote ---
Agreed! ;) :)
And Ennis's guilt shows us that he believed he could have saved Jack. :(
Kerry:
--- Quote from: atz75 on January 09, 2008, 01:46:51 am ---That phone scene is just so brilliant. I still think Lureen really treats Ennis very well on the phone. I think it's a huge kindness on her part to prod Ennis to go visit Jack's parents, etc.
--- End quote ---
This is such a fascinating thread and even more so for me to read how different scenes are interpreted entirely differently by different people.
I have now seen BbM on more occasions than I care to count and on every one of those occasions I thought Lureen was cold, aloof and patronising to Ennis on the phone. And I won't even mention the way she summarily hung-up the phone on Ennis' ear, without so much as a civil "Good-bye."
IMHO Lureen sometimes even seemed to almost be sneering. "We put a stone up," she says, as her top lip curls up.
Just my view, for what it's worth. In the novella, Ms Proulx says, "No doubt about it, she was polite but the little voice was cold as snow."
I'm gaining so many fascinating insights here. :)
Sandy:
--- Quote from: moremojo on January 08, 2008, 05:51:05 pm ---Ennis must have felt responsible for it.
--- End quote ---
I agree. I think that this is expressed during his conversation with John Twist. He says, "I can't begin to tell you how bad I feel". Is this him expressing his guilt or his grief? I think guilt.
--- Quote from: atz75 on January 08, 2008, 08:51:54 pm ---
My favorite thing about Ennis's big threat about Mexico in that fight is how totally and completely un-intimidated Jack is by Ennis's bluster. Jack just pushes right back with his own issues and complaints. I love that.
--- End quote ---
Me too! There have been posts elsewhere about the fact that they only spent time together sporadically, it was not a relationship where they learnt about each other 'warts and all' by living together. Ennis is a tough cookie and the fact that Jack wasn't scared for his safety shows the strength of their relationship.
--- Quote from: Shakestheground on January 08, 2008, 10:09:13 pm ---
As Lureen is talking to Ennis on the phone, she seems to be looking at someone, someone in the room with her that we don't see.
--- End quote ---
I had never even thought about that, but watching the film certainly doesn't rule it out-thank you for bringing it to my attention! I've always been fascinated by the noise she made in the back of her throat, as if she is stopping herself from saying what she really thinks. To me, she is being cold, and wants to yell at Ennis, but is holding back either out of respect or Jack or simply that she could her the despair in Ennis and didn't want to hurt him further. But then, maybe she wants to say more but can't because of the other person in the room...
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