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John Twist (film only)- Sad Dad or Mean Man?

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Sandy:
As you all know, I’m knew to this forum (and any other!) and I have difficulty in deciding when something is ‘off-topic’ or not.  I want to discuss John Twist as he is portrayed in the film as opposed to the book (which I see a thread on).  I don’t see any other relevant thread, therefore if there is, please let me know and I’ll move my comments elsewhere. 

In the film, I feel so desperately sorry for John Twist (this may be controversial!).

I think that Jack’s comments don’t show a bad father, simply a gruff old fool which may be linked to his generation rather than Jack.  Also, Jack was nineteen when these comments were made: teenage rebellion?

The most important scene however is his father’s interaction with Ennis.

John says that Jack thought he was too special to be buried with the family.  Jack left home at such a young age, I think that his father may have been incredibly hurt that Jack didn’t want to hang around and help him with the family business.  Even in death, Jack wanted to be away from home.  He didn’t want to be buried with his mum and dad, he wanted as far away from the ranch as possible: that has got to hurt a parent! 

He thereafter moves on to speak about how Jack was going to bring Ennis Del Mar to the ranch.  Clearly, Jack felt comfortable enough to say Ennis’ name and keep telling them about how ‘they’ were going to build a cabin.  His disdain for Ennis, I feel, is that he didn’t come with Jack as Jack so wanted.  Every parent wants their child to be happy and Ennis moving with Jack would have sent Jack over the moon.  John calls it a ‘half baked’ notion, which indeed it was as Ennis didn’t ever go. 

Remember, Ennis was allowed into the home in the first place!

I think that the spitting in the cup shows anger, not disgust.  When Ennis punches Jack, he spits.  When he falls out with Jack during their argument, he spits.   

John thereafter talks about another fella moving up there, to build a cabin.  He looks as if he is smirking whilst telling Ennis this, it seems he is trying to hurt Ennis.  Which of course, he does! We see Ennis’ reaction and it is Mrs Twist who steps in at that stage to invite him to Jack’s room.

Mrs Twist appears to be the submissive partner, yet she says that she kept his room as it was when he was a boy.  If John Twist didn’t want Jack around, I think that he would have put his foot down and not allowed it.  I think they both hoped that one day, Jack would come home.  He never did, even at the end, they only got half of his ashes.  Half of his ashes, for the half of his life they had with him. 

Finally, at the start of the scene, Ennis talks about taking Jack’s ‘ashes’ to Brokeback.  At the end, John says that “he [Jack]” is going into the family plot.  John is referring to Jack, not the ashes which I think means so much. 

Sorry I took so long! 
 ::)

Scott6373:
I don't think you can paint him as one or the other exclusively.  He, like just about every other character in this are victims, and if you look closely, they are all victims of the same human failing:  Not owning their own lives and the choices they have made that put them where they are when we meet them.

Jeff Wrangler:
While I don't see John Twist as you do, I think it's perfectly possible to feel sorry for him.

I think he's an angry, bitter man, angry at the world, and this includes his son. We're not told the root of this anger, but apparently it's of long-standing. I don't agree with you about what Jack's comments in 1963 show about his father. I take them at face value--Jack can't please his old man no how, and that the old man never once went to see Jack ride the bulls.

As far as him being hurt that Jack didn't want to stick around Lightning Flat, well, Jack did come back every year to help out for a while, and if Jack didn't want to be around his father, I think that may be a result of the old man's anger and self-absorption preventing him from having a good relationship with his son. I'd also disagree that "every parent wants their child to be happy." Good parents certainly do, but I don't think angry, self-absorbed people like John Twist make good parents.

I don't think his disdain for Ennis has to do with Ennis's never coming to Lightning Flat with Jack. Bear in mind, after Ennis refuses to set up a cow and calf operation with Jack, we have no evidence that Jack ever mentioned that plan to Ennis, only that Jack mentioned it to his father. The old man's disdain is directed at his dead son, who apparently, in his view, came up with lots of big ideas in his lifetime but never followed through on them. Any disdain for Ennis, I think, comes out of knowing--or maybe at least strongly suspecting--exactly what the nature of Jack's relationship with Ennis was. When Peter McRobbie looks at Heath, I think he does a very good job of portraying the "knowing look" that Annie Proulx attributes to John Twist.

Sandy:
Hiya Jeff

Once I read the book, I viewed John Twist in a completely different light, and I agree completely with all of your comments.  Jack’s memory of his dad urinating on him is heartbreaking and is nothing short of child abuse.  Any person who does that to a three or four year old boy is lashing out at something.  A good parent he is not. 

But back to the film, I too take the comments Jack made about his Dad at face value, and I hear him talking about a disinterested father.  The fact that he is so close to Ennis and only mentions not being able to please his Dad, and his Dad not being there to watch him makes me think (again, from the film only) that his dad wasn’t abusive to him.  I think Jack is more animated when he talks about L.D.

Regarding him leaving home young, I wonder if it had more to do with different hopes.  John wanted him on the ranch, Jack wanted to rodeo.  Could that be the reason why John didn’t encourage him by going to see him ride?  (I didn't want to mention the book, but it does say that John used to put him on the wooilies). I suppose John should have counted himself lucky that Jack went home for long spells- I think when young ‘uns flee the nest they tend to stay flown!


--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 10, 2008, 10:30:33 am ---The old man's disdain is directed at his dead son, who apparently, in his view, came up with lots of big ideas in his lifetime but never followed through on them.

--- End quote ---

I see your point.  John says, “Jack used to say [..]" but as usual Jack’s idea “didn’t come to pass”.  John knew that Jack wanted it, and John must realise that the only reason it didn’t happen was because Ennis couldn’t do it.  He knew that this one was out of Jack’s hands and it wasn’t his fault that it didn’t happen, yet he was sarcastic about it. 

I don’t agree that the disdain shown to Ennis was to do with their relationship.  It seems to be the general assumption that John is homophobic, but I don't think there's any real proof of that.  There is also no indication that John was proud of Jack’s relationship with Lureen, or Bobby for that matter. John may well have had the same disdain for Lureen when he first married, her “old man making serious money” an’ all! 

Jeff Wrangler:

--- Quote from: Sandy on January 10, 2008, 12:51:40 pm ---I don’t agree that the disdain shown to Ennis was to do with their relationship.  It seems to be the general assumption that John is homophobic, but I don't think there's any real proof of that.
--- End quote ---

You should talk to ineedcrayons. On this point she agrees with you hunnerd percent.  ;D


--- Quote ---There is also no indication that John was proud of Jack’s relationship with Lureen, or Bobby for that matter. John may well have had the same disdain for Lureen when he first married, her “old man making serious money” an’ all! 

--- End quote ---

I suppose he'd probably be jealous and resentful of the Newsomes' success in life. Like I said, I take him for an angry, bitter person generally.

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