Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

John Twist (film only)- Sad Dad or Mean Man?

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serious crayons:
My view of John Twist is very close to yours, Sandy. Actually, I didn't feel quite as sympathetic toward him as you do, but your first post was very convincing. I have always seen him as a grieving father -- gruff, harsh, grumpy, bitter and off-putting, but genuinely grieving. And you're right, even Jack's request to have his ashes scattered elsewhere has got to feel to his father like a slap in the face, an extra twist (sorry) of the knife.

(I am referring to Movie John Twist, too. Story John Twist is a different ... story.)

I am also in the camp that doesn't view him as overtly homophobic. His gruffness, etc., could just as easily be displayed by a father toward a heterosexual son with whom he had a rocky relationship. In fact, you see very similar behavior in countless other movies involving generational conflict between (straight) sons and their dads. There's nothing gay-specific -- as far as we can tell from the movie -- about the problems between the Twist men.

When John Twist says anything that DOES allude to Jack's sexual orientation, he expresses no explicit disapproval. Clearly he understands the relationship between Ennis and Jack ("I know where Brokeback Mountain is" seems code for that), but doesn't say anything disparaging about it. He criticizes Jack's plan to ditch his family and live with another man not because it implies Jack is gay but because Jack didn't follow through with it, and John didn't get the ranch help he needed. And the fact that Jack was comfortable confiding his plans to the old man in the first place suggests they were pretty open about things.

What a shocker for Ennis, whose entire view of homosexuality was instilled by a father who was, demographically speaking, a lot like John Twist. Ennis probably assumed that all gruff rancher fathers, along with just about everyone else in the world, hated homosexuals. And because Jack complained about his father (while Ennis spoke of his own mostly respectfully), Ennis and the viewers are set up to expect John Twist to be a raging homophobe -- we may even assume that's why Jack's folks run him off.

But when he's not, Ennis learns a new lesson along with all the other new things he discovers after Jack's death. And we viewers see once again that, in BBM, you can't always judge people by their exteriors or your own expectations.


--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on January 10, 2008, 01:37:44 pm ---You should talk to ineedcrayons. On this point she agrees with you hunnerd percent.  ;D
--- End quote ---

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was writing this when your post came in, Jeff!

Jeff Wrangler:

--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on January 10, 2008, 01:48:57 pm --- :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was writing this when your post came in, Jeff!

--- End quote ---

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: (((ineedcrayons)))

Toycoon:

--- Quote from: Scott on January 10, 2008, 10:13:34 am ---I don't think you can paint him as one or the other exclusively.  He, like just about every other character in this are victims, and if you look closely, they are all victims of the same human failing:  Not owning their own lives and the choices they have made that put them where they are when we meet them.

--- End quote ---

I like your statement, Scott. I never heard anyone put it so succinctly before. Thanks.

Clyde-B:
   One thing I've learned is that there's always more to people than what you see or what you think you know.  Whatever their reasons, most people don't show you everything.  In my experience, what remains hidden are fears and hurts and the softness of humanity that they feel it's too dangerous to reveal. 

   Most cynics I've known have turned out to be romantics that somehow just couldn't make it work.  (As a recovering cynic myself, I especially know this is true.)

   We don't know where Jack Twist got his penchant for dreaming.  If it was from his father, what would living all those years on a ranch that's little more than scrubland in the hopeless desolation of Lightning Flat done to a dreamer? Did he want to protect Jack from that?  Is that why he's so bitter about dreaming, because his own dreams never came true?  And there's always the question, why would a sweet woman like Jack's mother have married John Twist in the first place?  What were they both like 40 years ago?

Artiste:
Thanks Sandy!

Even if many did talk about Jack's father (and I did too), you bring up such good points. And so do others here too!! Thanks! Thanks!

Since some of you know me, I have still questions, about John Twist!

For now some are :
1. Jack Twist must have invited his parents to his wedding? Or not? What do you think... and all of you?? Does this say something about the father and son relationship??

2. You say Ennis spits... often, and Jack does not?? In the BM movie, Jack, I think spits once, why?
Spitting, I often see when I look at a male and so I wonder: he spits since he felt I was gay?? Can anyone and you tell me more about that?

3. We must not forget that Jack is John's ONLY son?? No other child ever or maybe in that family? This changes things... maybe.

4. As far as fleeing the nest, when you like your father, you come back. Jack came back to his parents, often?
Rarest are those who never do visit again their parents, I knew of some... maybe. So John must have been somewhat amiable with Jack  as older, before and after Jack's marriage... plus Jack's jobs on Brokeback Mountain and rodeos!! ?? That should say something.

5. Concerning pissing on one's son, I will come back to that later, as I have real stories there too.
I must go, rest, as am fatigued now having moved furniture even with my broken bones,

and waiting your news from you and from all,

hugs!   May understanding be shared and enjoyed among father and son, even if the son or father are gay persons!!!!

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