The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Sarah Waters: Books & Movies Discussion
Lumière:
More on the discussion and on your last post soon, Amanda.. :)
But for now, here is a pic of Nan & baby Cyril..
Her identity and past experiences disappear into those clothes don't they? She just becomes a girl carrying a little child on her hip. Love that.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Lucise on February 19, 2008, 05:15:02 pm ---More on the discussion and on your last post soon, Amanda.. :)
But for now, here is a pic of Nan & baby Cyril..
Her identity and past experiences disappear into those clothes don't they? She just becomes a girl carrying a little child on her hip. Love that.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for that great picture M!
Yeah, Nan certainly transforms over and over and over again throughout TTV. And this particular "milkmaid" type incarnation somehow seems particularly interesting... again in terms of lesbian visibility. I love all the complexities in the true family dynamics that emerge between Nan, Flo, Cyril and Ralph. There's so much love (by the end) between all these characters, it's really charming. The fact that Cyril's the son of another woman with whom Flo had been in love, just adds a whole different layer of complexity.
What do you make of Flo's story about Cyril's mother (I think her name was Lillian)? That seems like such a huge, huge back-story. Does it sound to you like Lillian loved Flo in return? I can never really tell if we're supposed to believe Lillian and Flo had a true affair... or if their relationship was mostly just a really intense platonic friendship. Flo seemed so naive about things (in a certain way) that I really wonder about how she was perceiving that relationship with Lillian. Essentially, was it an unrequited-love situation for Flo?
Artiste:
Has anyone seen On The Waterfront 1954??
With many known actors in it, even Marlon Brando!!
Were they all known then??
What do you think of that movie??
Hugs!
Lumière:
--- Quote from: Artiste on February 19, 2008, 10:41:59 pm ---Has anyone seen On The Waterfront 1954??
With many known actors in it, even Marlon Brando!!
Were they all known then??
What do you think of that movie??
Hugs!
--- End quote ---
Hey Artiste,
This thread is dedicated to the books by the author Sarah Waters and movies that were created from them.
Maybe you could post your question in the "Ressurecting the Movies" thread ...
Cheers,
~M
Lumière:
--- Quote from: atz75 on February 19, 2008, 10:15:41 pm ---...
What do you make of Flo's story about Cyril's mother (I think her name was Lillian)? That seems like such a huge, huge back-story. Does it sound to you like Lillian loved Flo in return? I can never really tell if we're supposed to believe Lillian and Flo had a true affair... or if their relationship was mostly just a really intense platonic friendship. Flo seemed so naive about things (in a certain way) that I really wonder about how she was perceiving that relationship with Lillian. Essentially, was it an unrequited-love situation for Flo?
--- End quote ---
You are so right about the complexities/layers in the little family unit Flo, Ralph, Nan & Cyril made together. Just goes to show Love makes a family, doesn’t it? ;)
Re: Flo & Lillian –
I think that there are different answers to your questions depending on whether we are referring to Flo from the movie or the book.
In the book, SW provided us with a more detailed look at what Lillian & Flo’s relationship might have been like. I definitely gathered that they loved each other deeply (more than platonic friends). If I recall correctly, in the book, Nan and Flo had more conversations about Lillian than they did in the film. In the book, when Nan’s feelings for Flo started to surface, she began to resent Lillian’s memory a little, especially because Flo talked about her a lot and probably went on about how wonderful and deep their connection was. I randomly recall the scene in the book where Nan decides to clean the house when Ralph and Flo were out…she sees this dusty rug lying around (a rug that was made for Flo by Lillian), as well as a picture of a ‘heavy-browed’ woman (who she gathers was Lillian) and from her narrative, we can see that she is starting to despise this woman who has such a grip on Flo’s heart. There is no doubt in my mind that Flo & Lillian were lovers in the novel. I can’t recall if she said so explicitly but I am certain that the subject of her intimacy with Lillian came up in one of her conversations with Nan.
In the movie, well, it is a bit more ambiguous. There is only one scene where we get to hear about Lillian and Flo’s love for her, as well as her loss. It was such a wonderful scene – tears spilling from Flo’s eyes as she tells her story, Nan feeling for her but also holding out hope that Flo would see her in a different light (not as a replacement for Lillian but a possible object of Flo’s affections). It is clear to us that Flo loved Lillian deeply but we are not completely sure whether they were lovers or not, though we get the impression that they were very close. Personally, I think that they were lovers. I can’t think of solid evidence from the movie to back it up just now, but it is just a strong sense I get. ;-)
Let’s turn to Ralph for a sec…
When he came into the living room that morning and found Nan and Flo lying together after their night out at the lesbian bar, he didn’t seem surprised or upset by it… he was a little embarrassed if anything. No doubt he was aware of her sexuality and was accustomed to the idea that his sister’s lover would be a woman. How wonderful it must’ve been for Flo to have such an open-minded and loving brother, especially at a time when it was so undoubtedly unacceptable to be queer. I love that he accepted her, despite what the neighbors might've said.
Here’s a pic from Nan and Flo’s first “morning-after” scene.. ;)
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