Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 09/08: Were Ennis and Jack particularly bad fathers?

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Penthesilea:
I don't think they were bad fathers. I think especially Ennis was a loving father who really doted on his daughters. No, he wasn't perfect, but I think it's important to take in account the given time and place.

I think given the time and place, Ennis was pretty much involved in the upbringing of his girls (at least until the divorce). When they were small, we see him taking care of them directly when coming home from work (someone else has already mentioned this). He did either bring them to bed or has checked on them before we see him having sex with Alma - and he is shown to do these things naturally; Alma doesn't send him to see after the girls in the first scene. He did not come home and relax and expect Alma to do everything else.

Sure he dumps the girls with Alma at the grocery store when his boss called - but he was willing to take care of them when Alma was working and he wasn't. How many fathers of that time were willing to do so? Heck, how many fathers today are willing to do so?
And what else could he have done in this situation? He could have organized someone else to look after the kids (Alma's sister for example). But he did say he was in a big hurry, so maybe his boss was very impatient and bossy, we simply don't know. And although Alma had a job, I don't think she was the main bread winner.

I think it's not a prove of being a bad parent when the parent who was destined to look after the kids on a specific time and date suddenly has something coming up which makes a change of plans necessary. It has happened in our family life more than once, on both sides.
And it's also pretty usual for parents to argue over it at such occasions or even throw a fit (as Ennis does with Alma's extra shift later in the movie).

Speaking of that specific argument:


--- Quote ---From Amanda:
Still, I'm confused about exactly what Ennis is so angry about.  Why is he freaking out about Alma working at this particular juncture?  Alma's always worked.  I mean, why is he blowing up about it now?

--- End quote ---

I don't think it was about her extra shift. I think it was just an example of the increasing tension and the toll the situation took on all persons involved. Perhaps the argument has begun over something completely different, or one or both of them was simply ill-humored and stressed out on this day.
The arguments Ennis brings are not at all strong, especially in the light that normally he didn't have qualms with Alma working and him seeing after the kids for that time. To me it seems he simply doesn't know what else to say and betakes to stereotypes just for the sake to make a point. Not an uncommon strategy in arguments. People often say things of which they know they're BS, just for the sake to make a point, or to further provokate the other one.
And Alma is not impressed by his behaviour at all, she knows how weak his arguments are. She yells back at him just as good. And also in front of the girls. Which is not the best thing to do of both Ennis and Alma, but does not necessarily result in permanent damage on their kids.

brokeplex:
I agree that Ennis was a remarkably good father, even after the divorce. I can really relate to Ennis in that role, because I watch the pains that DL makes in order to spend as much time with his boy as he can. And, like Alma, DL's ex gives him no trouble in seeing his kid, but it is tough for a man to in effect reorder his life around two agendas :

1) his new life made after the divorce
2) visitation with the kids of the old marriage

this is very conflicting for many men, and one of the reasons why many divorced men do not keep up with the kids, sad but true.

BlissC:

--- Quote from: Penthesilea on March 23, 2008, 06:36:55 pm ---Sure he dumps the girls with Alma at the grocery store when his boss called - but he was willing to take care of them when Alma was working and he wasn't. How many fathers of that time were willing to do so? Heck, how many fathers today are willing to do so?
And what else could he have done in this situation? He could have organized someone else to look after the kids (Alma's sister for example). But he did say he was in a big hurry, so maybe his boss was very impatient and bossy, we simply don't know. And although Alma had a job, I don't think she was the main bread winner.

--- End quote ---

That's a good point. If his boss was very impatient he'd be in danger of losing his job if he didn't go in and do what needed to be done. He does say to Alma, "I can't afford to not be there when them heifers calve. Be my job if I lose any of 'em". I guess on that occasion he was thinking of the welfare of his family.

BlissC:
I swear, I was gonna get some work done tonight, but I keep getting drawn back to this damned place!  :laugh:

I've just had a thought about the final scene - just before the end with Ennis and the shirts, when Alma Jnr visits Ennis. At first Ennis says he can't make it to the wedding because he's supposed to be on a roundup near the Tetons, but when he sees Alma Jnr's disappointed look (which personally I think shows she wasn't there out of a sense of duty) he changes his mind and says "I reckon they can find themselves another cowboy".

I think that the scene with Alma shows that he has changed. At first he doesn't say yes to his daughter, that he'd go to the wedding, in the same way he couldn't say yes to seeing Jack in August because he had to work. Maybe though Jack's death made him realise that he it's no use putting things that aren't really that important first, and that he has to take the chances when they come. He realised it too late for him and Jack, but not too late for him and his daughter. It allows Ennis some redemption as a character if that makes any sense, and shows that he's learned from his mistakes. Maybe he wasn't entirely the father the girls wanted or needed when they were younger, but maybe he can make up for that and build a stronger relationship with his daughters as adults?

cricket99999:

--- Quote from: Fran on March 20, 2008, 12:00:22 pm ---And maybe Monroe plays a part in this scene, too.  Ennis says, "Well, tell him you made a fuckin' mistake."  Ennis doesn't say, "Tell them...." (the "them" being some other employee who couldn't work those particular hours).  The "him" is obviously Monroe.  By working the extra shift, Alma is doing Monroe a favor.  In Ennis's mind, she's doing something to please Monroe, putting Monroe before the needs of her own family, and Ennis doesn't like it.
--- End quote ---

In fact, the mention of Monroe is the entire reason for this scene.  To smooth the transition to Alma as wife of Monroe.  Most moviegoers, unlike the rest of us, did not read the story before seeing the movie.  Imagine, without this scene, the BBM novice seeing Monroe at the Thanksgiving table.  They would know only that Alma worked for him once, years ago -- back when the girls were babies.  The swingset scene is what informs viewers that Alma works at the grocery through the years.  That, IMO, is the purpose of the scene.  It's a bonus that we see Alma honor the promise to her employer, making his needs a priority over her ranting husband's 'needs'. 

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