Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
serious crayons:
I agree with most of what you say, Brokeplex ( :D!!) except this:
--- Quote from: brokeplex on April 04, 2008, 08:13:41 pm --- He wanted sex from Cassie,
--- End quote ---
I don't think sex had anything to do with why he stuck around with Cassie for so long. In fact, imagining them having sex, I picture him being about as eager as he was with Alma -- i.e., he has to force himself to feign enthusiasm.
I think Cassie presented herself at an opportune time. It probably didn't happen immediately after Thanksgiving or his subsequent camping trip with Jack, but in the movie the events come in that order, and I think we're intended to assume that he's still worried about what people on the pavement think.
Then Cassie comes along, dragging him onto the dance floor, plunking her feet in his lap, talking about marriage -- a perfect cover. He tends to be pretty passive in relationships, but it works out for him, too. They could have gone on for decades if Jack hadn't forced him to face up to the lie he was living.
Oh, the one other area where I would disagree with you is his treatment of Alma. His breakup with Cassie was undeniably cruel, and his infidelity to Alma isn't really excusable. But I think their marriage dissolved for a multitude of reasons, and Alma wasn't without 'blame."
--- Quote from: Artiste on April 04, 2008, 08:42:55 pm ---Do we know if Ennis had sex with Cassie?
What proof?
--- End quote ---
Well, I guess all the proof we have is that 1) he said so to Jack and 2) Cassie probably wouldn't have stuck around for five years otherwise. She wouldn't have to say, "I don't get you, Ennis Del Mar," because she probably would have figured him out long before that.
Artiste:
Wow, wow !!
Artiste:
Wow, may I disagree or simply try to take another light on things:
Cassie goes after Ennis!! Let's not forget that... she drags him on, even if Ennis does NOT want to start nor continue a relationship!!
It is likely obvious that Ennis does not go OFTEN with Cassie, maybe so?? But Cassie persists and persists... she is the one making contacts !! (Seems to me that is what Ennis says to Jack!! ??)
These are two things that I find Eng and/or the ss... is/are anti-gay:
Alma and Cassie wait way, way , way too long, too long to break realtionships?? That is NOT natural !! WE do NOT see that in our society!
More later...
au revoir,
hugs!
BlissC:
--- Quote from: Artiste on April 04, 2008, 09:04:43 pm ---Alma and Cassie wait way, way , way too long, too long to break realtionships?? That is NOT natural !! WE do NOT see that in our society!
--- End quote ---
It happens all the time, and people keep trying to make relationships work that clearly aren't working for any number of reasons, sometimes for many years, until something happens that makes them realise that the situation is intolerable.
--- Quote from: Artiste on April 04, 2008, 09:04:43 pm ---It is likely obvious that Ennis does not go OFTEN with Cassie, maybe so?? But Cassie persists and persists... she is the one making contacts !!
--- End quote ---
The same could be said of Jack. It's Jack who made the first move on the mountain, Jack who instigated the contact at the 4 year reunion, Jack who keeps trying to persuade Ennis of the "sweet life" they could have, Jack who's bitching about not meeting up more often, when Ennis has work commitments...
The one thing that comes through from reading this thread through is not that Cassie's homophobic (I see no evidence or proof of that), but that Ennis is totally emotionally crippled. He doesn't know how to communicate with anyone, and doesn't understand, or know how to articulate his feelings, and as a consequence treats almost everyone in his life appallingly, but I do feel he's more to be pitied than blamed. He has so many chances in his life, but he misses them all.
Probably Jack comes the closest to understanding Ennis and trying to bring him out of himself, but ultimately he pushes Jack away too. He never understands or knows how to communicate with Alma or Cassie, or even his daughters (from the scene at the end of the film he still thinks Alma Jnr's dating a boyfriend she split up with two years before, and he never really understands Jack either, and that's the tragedy, because Jack's probably the one person who has the power to help Ennis change for the better, but ultimately Ennis's stubbornness is too strong.
Can we blame Ennis for how he treats those who love him, all the way through his life? Yes, I guess on one level we can, and particularly if we presume that Ennis is aware of his behaviour. On another level though I don't think he is aware of his behaviour. I've lived with a man who finds it impossible to communicate with anyone - he doesn't know the words to say, and finds interacting in a social situation or conversation a huge trial, and will retreat into silence if pushed into being sociable. A man whose mind is so closed that he doesn't fully appreciate his own feelings, not knowing how to put them into words or actions, let alone be able to empathise with anyone else and understand about the effect his words and actions might have on them. I struggled for so long to try and 'read' him and understand is moods and his inappropriate reactions, and in the end gave up because I simply didn't have enough emotional energy for both of us. Sound like a brown eyed cowboy from Wyoming we know..?
Artiste:
Thanks very much Bliss!
Like other members, your post(s) say much, indeed!! And I am very grateful for that! It makes me think as well as be sentimental and emotional (and that is a good thing), as I learn everyday about life !!
May I say:
You talk about Alma, Cassie, Jack, Ennis... with reason and feeling!! And that is great !!
Can we all note that Ennis is reasoning and also using more his emotions, and when he combines that, he is becoming more clear... but that takes much, much, much time than Jack, Alma, Cassie tried as times !! ?? Does that make sense Bliss and all of you too on Bettermost/and guests ?
I wondered why Cassie became a player here in the BM movie, and I thought that that was maybe because Eng and the ss writer(s) (and/or those connected doing this film) was maybe anti-gay by stressing this charactor: Cassie !!- That as so, because it deminishes Ennis as a good sport, as well as Jack too in some ways !! You understand?
Didn't Annie accentuate Ennis and Jack as good sports in her book ?? But he BM movie advances otherwise ??
Anyway, maybe by adding Cassie now in the BM movie, then we come to understand that Ennis (a gay or bi man of good charactor) is not the only one that needs helps to evolve but that straights (as in heterosexuals) too need help, yes as well to understand gay or bi life ?? Or is the BM movie only stressing being gay or bi is no good, and that the only importance is being straight or acting like that no matter of you are gay or bi ??
Puzzling is it ??
Awaiting your thoughts,
au revoir,
hugs!
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