Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
Mikaela:
--- Quote ---What about the line, "As clumsy as I am, I'd probably electrocute myself.
--- End quote ---
A further and third possibility might be that Ennis is hiding his motives (ie. wanting to stay off a job that he wouldn't be able to quit whenever the fishin' trips beckon) behind the plain truth for once: He doesn't have a very high opinion of himself, he has low self-esteem and very little self confidence. If he'd ever actually considering taking on a responsible job at the power company; I bet he *would* constantly worry that he'd manage to bungle it completely.
--- Quote ---"Gonna snow tonight for sure." Snow was the harbinger of the early end of their summer on Brokeback, and here it's the harbinger of the early end of their relationship and Jack's life. Breaks my heart every time I hear him say it.
--- End quote ---
Oh yes. :'( All of that scene just breaks my heart. What especially gets to me is Jack's question at the tail end of the snow comment:
"All this time and you ain't found nobody else to marry?"
A straightforward question about what's happening in ennis's life - but also a sign that Jack has given up the last buried bit of hope for a life together with Ennis. He's really saying that even in his heart of hearts he knows now that Ennis will not ever stop pretending to be what he's not; will never come around to honestly considering a life together with Jack. There is an finality, an acceptance of that as a fact in Jack's question. He's puzzled - since Ennis truly is going to go through all of his life living the lie, afraid of people finding out, ashamed of who he really is - then why haven't he taken the obvious step and seen to putting up the front that a re-marriage would provide?
But maybe that's just me, and it's equally possible to read into the question a sign that Jack has still not completely given up, precisely because Ennis hasn't gone and re-married?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Mikaela on May 24, 2006, 06:01:11 pm ---But maybe that's just me, and it's equally possible to read into the question a sign that Jack has still not completely given up, precisely because Ennis hasn't gone and re-married?
--- End quote ---
My initial reaction was that even after all this time they still had to keep up the pretense of being interested in women. Perhaps Jack does so only to avoid Ennis' startle point. At some point, I heard the theory that Jack was merely trying to bait Ennis, get him to discuss why he hadn't married and maybe admit his real preferences. I can see that, too. Either way, you'd think Jack would be pretty encouraged by Ennis' utterly lackluster response.To me,
"I've been putting the blocks to this good-looking little gal in Riverton. Waitress ... wants to be a nurse or sumthn ... I dunno ..."
pretty much telegraphs "Yeah, but who cares?"
Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual orientation thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?
Mikaela:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 25, 2006, 01:04:11 am ---Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual preference thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?
--- End quote ---
This contained such interesting points that I had to quote all of it!
I've always taken Ennis's question and Jack's reply to be something along the lines of "Do you manage to make it work enough that it *seems* normal, even to Lureen? ie. Do you manage to keep the real you undercover?" And then Jack's shrugged reply to be: "Yes, I manage to make pretend well enough for that so that noone suspects the truth."
I hadn't thought about Ennis actually figuring that "Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side", as you say. But it seems not unlikey that it might be so.
However, would Jack, even Jack, understand it if that's how Ennis's mind worked on this matter? I'm not sure that he would. Jack's got a much more realistic view of his own sexuality and his marriage and what it does and does not mean - he seems to project his way of understanding those things onto Ennis. For all their love there's a lot they don't manage put into coherent talk or thought about one another. I think several scenes indicate that Jack considers Ennis's clinging to marriage as a front deliberately maintained by Ennis to hide behind. In the post-divorce scene he thinks that the marriage being over means Ennis has made a decision to move on out of cover, to not live the lie.
So perhaps they speak at cross purposes without even knowing it in the two later scenes where marriage comes up.
One of the challenges, I find, in fully understanding the characters and their motivations is that I find it difficult moving back to the mindset of the 1970's and how homosexuality was considered back then. How it wasn't spoken of, how it wasn't on most people's radar at all, etc. It's such a visible everyday issue today, such a normal part of public life and discussion, it's difficult to go back to how it was in Ennis's time even though it's just a generation ago. It makes sense that someone in Ennis's situation would be quite ignorant about the matters that could have made him understand himself - and Jack - better. All he'd have to go by would be the locker-room type taunts and jibes and that horrible incident of his childhood.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 25, 2006, 01:04:11 am ---Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual orientation thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?
--- End quote ---
I'm just jumping in here to agree with Mikaela... This is one excellent post Katherine! :D
OK, new line.
Ennis to Lureen- "We were good friends." - can be translated into "He was the love of my life and my best friend."
:'(
Brown Eyes:
And another one...
"You sleep with the sheep, 100 percent"- can be translated into "I don't want no rose stemming out of you two boys."
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